The Entire Thought Experiment

[astre]

proposed plan:

research: chemistry > scient meth

T+1 convert to jewish + caste, pacifism, rep
Starve ridu, kish and Hagzhou (keep 2 or 3 food tiles) for a decrease in pop in 5 turns for each city then add somes food tiles to stabilize for end of GA.
Will go 1 engineer in each city + max artist in
Hangzhou: 7 artists
Kish 1 eng + scientist
Eridu : 1 eng + 5 merchants

Builds:
Uruk: OU > zig > theater
Eridu: HA (starving)
Kish: jew missionary (starving)
Lagash: habour >lib
Ur: habour > wealth
Nibru: habour > LH > wealth
Bad Tibru: library > theater (culture frontier)
Scythian: forge> library
Harappan: lib > harbour
Zimbir: moai statue > harbor
Xian: zig > lib
Nanjing: miss > barack
Shanghai: LH > theater
Beijing: Taj > zig >forg palace
Hangzhou: NE (starving)
Gaungzhou: theater > forge
Sharup: granary > zig
Umma: zig > granary
Bantu: zig >WB > LH > forge
Larsa : zig > gran
Isin : zig > gran
Girsu culture > zig > gran

Trades : try to get guid from boudica when he accept to talk.
Try to catch astro if I can.
Move more troops to Gaungzhou to avoid revolt.

 

[Cam_H]

astre,

Thanks for the PPP.

Generally happy with the direction.

• Are we not going for Steel to tackle Sitting Bull with Cannons?
• Eridu has a few options. I'd like to deal with the Shock Jockey variant with the Horse Archer as is being set up, but we're now losing on that partially built Lighthouse that we could well just get done given that Eridu has a Uni'. Other considerations could be Jewish Temple, Harbor, or Trebuchets.
• Lagash isn't a commercial centre, so I'd not build a Library there.
• Harappan should be another production oriented site once we get the jungle out of the way, and therefore I'd not pursue a Library.
• I'm still not 100% 'sold' on using Beijing as our Forbidden Palace city seeing it uses a valuable National Wonder slot yet offers an 'area of effect' benefit that could be achieved in another city.
• I would like to see a Worker or two added, while I thought that there was an intention for a city to use that unused Rice / jungle area west of Bad-Tibiria that would need a Settler?

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

 

[Sengir]

I'd prefer steel of SciMeth as well. I also agree with Cam on not building Libs in Lagash and Harappan. I don't think those cities will benefit enough from them.

On FP: which National Wonders were you looking at for Beijing Cam? As long as the FP gets done fast(ish) I don't mind where it goes.

 

[pigswill]

Might be worth trading maps around for a geopolitical update.

Steel looks good. SB is isolated until he gets astronomy which will slow his research a bit. Cannon vs CG3 LBs gives pretty decent odds.

The jungle rice is within another city's BFC which actually needs more food to work a gold mine.

Hope we get Taj or it'll be a very expensive whip.

I think we have enough workers at the moment.

 

[astre]

Ok, i'll take your comments into account and play tonight.

for bejing, i'll see if building it somewhere else is realistic. I presume you would prefer to see IW here, but i'm seeing no other one. maybe it can get both IW and FP. I'll check it anyway

 

[astre]

well, slight delay, i'll play tomorow.

 

[Cam_H]

...The jungle rice is within another city's BFC which actually needs more food to work a gold mine ...

... I think we have enough workers at the moment.

Sorry - I've not got the game with me right now so can't check. If it's the case with that Rice already being worked, then my apologies, I thought that it was free. It's not an especially great spot down there, but I recall it was a reasonable 'filler' city area. I guess the important thing is that the Rice is in our cultural borders and is being Farmed in waiting for Sid's Sushi.

On Workers, I recall there was still a lot of jungle that needed attention. Again, going on memory, but I think we have fewer Workers than cities by a margin.

On FP: which National Wonders were you looking at for Beijing Cam? As long as the FP gets done fast(ish) I don't mind where it goes.

It was originally lymond's suggestion to have Maoi in Beijing, and the more I think about it, the more I lean toward having an already 'good' production city such as Beijing get even stronger in light of our Spaceship variant. Those big components such as the Docking Bay or the Engines can take 'ages' if they end up in an unexceptional production city due to possible timing/logistic problems. I envigaged that it would be paired with Ironworks.

I'm personally not quite as fussed about getting the Forbidden Palace 'done pronto' given most of our cities have Ziggurats now and unwieldy maintenance is more under control than it has been. I'm not suggesting that we ignore it however. If we were to tackle settling / acquiring cities the newly discovered small continent, then maybe I'd suggest we go with the Forbidden Palace there, but I'd be more than OK to get it done in one of a number of currently small but growing cities with a couple of production-oriented tiles and a Forge (one of those cities around 'that Bantu area', or maybe Umma which is south of Beijing).

Anyway, that's my thinking.

 

[astre]

the problem with maoi in bejing is cultural border. bejing doesn't have enough sea water right now and we can't be sure we will kill china one day.

actualy our best production city will be nanjing. fully Watermilled and camp destroyed, it will be a bomb.

 

[Cam_H]

astre,

Beijing has a merged Great Artist, and with Sid's Sushi and Taj Mahal should be pumping out 60-ish per turn fairly soon before we toss in more Wonders and what-not. Cultural pressure from Chengdu is not my greatest long-term concern.

I agree with you that Nanjing should be good in the 'hammer time' department.

pigswill,

The Rice tile I had in mind is on the south west diagonal of Harappan. It's not in any BFC. We could put a city four tiles directly south of the mountain near Nibru. Again, it's a 'filler' city option and nothing to get too excited about, but it's there nonetheless.

18 Workers, 22 cities, well over a dozen BFC tiles still under jungle (I counted 17).

 

[Folket]

Hello.

I'm back and it seems like you have not wraped up the game yet. I will not have energy today to have a look but soon I will be up to speed.

 

[astre]

right, will play tonight with amended option:
do not build FP in bejing.
build some workers and a settler for rice city.

 

[astre]

All went fine except a poison water in eridu that crash part of our GP production plan.
Trade guild and banking (and money) with boudica for edu and lib

I stop for question:
Should i go 1 turn sci method to enable trade cham vs sci meth with linc?
should i trade for astro instead?

will finish tomorow.

 

[pigswill]

Maybe sell music to Washington for 310g. Part tech scimeth for chem trade. Qin's pretty close to astro and has several techs missing.

 

[Cam_H]

[Crosspost with pigswill]

Good work!

On tech', I'd also consider pursuing Economics so that we can swap into Free Market on the last turn of the Golden Age.

As much as I hate feeding Lincoln with tech', your suggestion on Scientific Method does make sense. I suspect that we'll be at war with Lincoln one day to prevent a Cultural victory attempt, and the less we help him the better, but we do quite badly want to get to Medicine.

A small micro point, but I'd be running an Engineer in Beijing and Hangzhou just to elevate our small chance of popping a Great Engineer for Mining Inc. It'll slow Beijing's population growth or Maoi by a turn, but I think that it might be worth trying it.

I'd be happy to re-visit pigswill's earlier suggestion of gifting Guangzhou back to Qin Shi Huang. It's revolt risk is low, and if we can hold it until Sid's Sushi gets in there, then there might be hope of saving it, but it does look like it's in a 'sticky spot' culturally. I'm actually a bit surprised that Lincoln's not already in Free Speech, which would make the situation even 'stickier'. We can do things to try to save it (merge our Great Artist in there, take a shot at Hermitage {although it would take ages to get built}), but I'm not sure if it's worth it.

I see Harappan went after a Library. I'm guessing Theatres in Uruk and Lagash are in preparation for Emancipation unhappiness (?).

Shaka will sell his map for 10. I'm not sure if it's of interest or not.

I'm quite relieved that Boudica declared war on Washington. My main concern with the swap to Judaism was that she'd drop to Cautious and DoW us instead.

 

[astre]

theater in harap is a mistake :/ but it will help for theater of the globe will help.
for uruk, this city will grow, it will need theater.
library is never lost if coastal. during GA with colossus online it gave incredible tiles

if we trade for sci meth then, i'd rather go for biology. we have so many farms...

For Guangzhou, it's a false problem, it's purpose is to be a dead city to close culture border. if we had gift it back, the culture problem would go further. but i'm building theater in the area to fight lincoln culture but i agree we will have to attack him with arms one day or another...

At the end of GA we should get enought GP to make 3 more GA, i think we have time to switch civis and would rather trade for economy than tech for it.

That left me with what to tech next:
steel, biology or economy?

 

[Cam_H]

I'd suggest that we hold off more Golden Ages until we get to Biology at least, if not Sushi-Medicine where we'll get more to make better use of them.

I like Economics > pursue Sci' Method trade for a turn or two > Steel > path to Biology. It's a bit 'all over the shop' but I'd really like us to be in Free Market by the end of this Golden Age, and beating up Sitting Bull with Cannons has its appeal.

 

[astre]

Ok, I stoped here with 2 turns left for GA with a choice to make:
shaka is willing to trade astro for chem and economy. see pic below.

All went quite fine. At one point, SB requiest philo, i gave him to get the 10 turns peace. given his army massing at our doors, it seems like the best thing to do.

I performed the Shock Jockey with a knight (see pics).
During this set, i got chemistry, scientific method, guild, bank, economy and theology.
We now have 2 GM and 2 GA (was unlucky for 2nd GA )
Next GP is next turn in bejing. btw, i'm concidereing to stop building HE in hangzou and build it in bejing due to the massinve GP points available here by wonders.

next turn, we'll switch to free market and ? (i'd think of free religion, slavery)

next set should focus on army as SB will declare. His stack looks big :/

EDIT:
we went beiing poison in 2 of our 3 GP farmed kish and eridu) and at least 2 of our buildings were destroyed) that's SB work...
moiai went to bejing.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for that. I'll check it out soon.

Roster;

vranasm
pigswill
astre
Folket << Up
lymond << On Deck
Sengir
Cam​

 

[astre]

I'm AFK for about a week.
See you soon

 

[pigswill]

Qin will still take Guangzhou. It would meet a variant and free up a lot of trebs ready for cannon upgrade.