The Entire Thought Experiment

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the turnset astre.

I feel that we need a bit of a shopping list in terms of the next 10-15, as well as a decision on the Great Merchant bulb (or otherwise?) which can be Currency or Metal Casting (or trade mission to Beijing ... I prefer Metal Casting bulb). I'm aware of some players' obsession with Currency, so the Metal Casting > Forge > Colossus approach might not have quite the support that I'd hope it might.

It's not my turnset, but in my view, we should be looking at completing those two Granaries; Uruk naturally, and Eridu with a whip. Uruk should then get out a Worker for Settler chop and to connect our Gold mine at some point, Eridu to get out a couple of Vultures (find out what's happening in the area to our north-east), and we should switch Kish to a Granary. The Warrior near Shanghai could garrison Kish once it has done its scouting.

Have we abandoned The Pyramids? If so, we can settle a quite nice city 2-east of south-Cows or even on the Floodplain one north of that spot adjacent to the Stone. If The Pyramids are still in the picture, then founding two cities down there is still possible, with the desert tile north of the south-Cows an option for The Pyramids city.

Pigswill's double Clams city is nice, but a bit too close to China for my liking.

Folket, please note that astre has a Work Boat (south west) and a Warrior (south) that are on auto-move for next turn, so if you want you can cancel the orders (the Work Boat's fine, but the Warrior might want to explore that peninsula).

nocho
vranasm
pigswill
astre
Folket << Up
lymond << On Deck
Cam
Sengir​

 

[Folket]

Do we have any idea where Lincoln is?

Is it me up next?

 

[nocho]

I think I'd concentrate on scouting, specifically towards those dyes, and try to settle as much as we reasonably can. I also think we're in a situation where we neither really need nor can afford expensive wonders. At least first we need a decent city base.

I'm inclined to do a trade mission with a GM. I nearly never do early bulbs, unless needing to dig out of a hole. Here I think the cash would nicely finance our much needed expansion while teching economically focussed techs (currency, monarchy, priesthood for zigs in first instance; then towards CS likely).

Oh, maybe we could need a vulture for scouting, barb archers and axes won't be that far away.

 

[Folket]

A couple of vultures to capture the barb city perhaps?

 

[Folket]

How many turns should I play and what do you expect me to produce before I play my turns?

 

[vranasm]

How many turns should I play and what do you expect me to produce before I play my turns?

I assume around 10 turns and some general idea of city builds, worker movements should be ideal.

I usually use this PPP's when I play then to follow

 

[Folket]

I can plan until we have alphabet then.

Worker, farm rice, then connect Kish, then more farms.
Worker 1, chop forest, road the gold, cottage riverside grass.

Eridu, whip granary then barracks (or library?).
Uruk, finish granary then vulture.
Kish, build granary.

 

[lymond]

I'd rather Eridu start a worker next turn, before the granary. We are not going to want to whip this city much at least in the near future.

I'd rather the worker near Uruk get up the grass hill mine first, after the chop. Ideally that worker would have chopped a forest west of uruk like silk and then moved to grass hill. Roading gold is least of my concerns right now. (again worker turns were wasted getting over to that forested hill when we could have chopped that granary much sooner)

Vulture out of Uruk after Gran sounds fine. Allows Uruk to grow a bit before next settler. Then a quick chop chop Library.

Looks like SB will likely target settling around us to the south.

I'm afraid we are in danger of losing our gold anyway. The warriors in China were a big mistake. You just don't do that on IMM.

No sure where to settle really. Nothing stands out really and the south seems all backfill to me. Not sure if the NE area is AI free or not. If so that looks like a lot of good land to eventually settle, but I'd rather secure our immediate area.

My vote is to settle a coast city near the cows W of Kish. No its not great but it is productive immediately and gets more trade routes without being too far away. I'm fine with cow/stone though.

I think the warrior down there could be better positioned and if we settle down there we will need more spawnbusters.

 

[Folket]

I'd rather Eridu start a worker next turn, before the granary. We are not going to want to whip this city much at least in the near future.

I'd rather the worker near Uruk get up the grass hill mine first, after the chop. Ideally that worker would have chopped a forest west of uruk like silk and then moved to grass hill. Roading gold is least of my concerns right now. (again worker turns were wasted getting over to that forested hill when we could have chopped that granary much sooner)
I see no need to stand on that hill. Even if we use 5 turns to mine it we are still better of to work a sea square instead.

Vulture out of Uruk after Gran sounds fine. Allows Uruk to grow a bit before next settler. Then a quick chop chop Library.

Looks like SB will likely target settling around us to the south.

I'm afraid we are in danger of losing our gold anyway. The warriors in China were a big mistake. You just don't do that on IMM.

No sure where to settle really. Nothing stands out really and the south seems all backfill to me. Not sure if the NE area is AI free or not. If so that looks like a lot of good land to eventually settle, but I'd rather secure our immediate area.

My vote is to settle a coast city near the cows W of Kish. No its not great but it is productive immediately and gets more trade routes without being too far away. I'm fine with cow/stone though.
As for settling I agree. Nothing stands out. I would like to settle more cities in the land we have but I can see that that city will block chinese expansion.

I think the warrior down there could be better positioned and if we settle down there we will need more spawnbusters.
probably, so you want to see more warriors?

I do not feel that convinced of the changes you want to make.

 

[vranasm]

i would not build barracks, try not to whip, chop more

not sure on the amount of granaries... seems excessive... I would put only in uruk, eridu and kish won't be whipped because they suck with food.

 

[Folket]

Not whipping Kish would be a mistake. It still has 2 4F and 1 3F tiles.

 

[Folket]

Eridu plan update.
Build granary until size 4. Then whip a worker.
In 8 turns we will have worker and 48 hammers in the granary size 2.
compared to build worker at size 3.
1 more turn of worker, 18 hammers in granary, size 3 with 5 food.

Slow build worker is better. Then whip the granary.

 

[Cam_H]

I'd like to see a Settler out at some point - I don't mind lymond's proposed spot, but I still lean to somewhere down south near the Stone.

I'm still not sure of the plan for the Great Merchant.

 

[Folket]

I could whip the vulture into a settler then regrow up to size 5 and whip the settler.

 

[lymond]

I could whip the vulture into a settler then regrow up to size 5 and whip the settler.

please don't

As for Eridu, it has some good natural production right now and low food. It can get out a much needed worker pretty quick. Should have already been done. We don't want to whip this city unless we have to.

 

[Cam_H]

I'm now confused ... Eridu has four farmable floodplains. +10 at four population, which is great for a couple of whip-regrows.

Not whipping Uruk much though I can see if it's to be either; Settlers/Workers, or Library > Scientists.

I'd still champion a Settler to either get underway (if not out) this turnset.

I still don't know what's the plan for the Great Merchant.

 

[pigswill]

GM for TM, even 900g is better than a bulb.

Axe to explore NE and another worker seem high priorities.

I don't understand the aversion to whipping Eridu. Kish can work rice, copper, 2 ghills at pop 4 leaving Eridu free to whip granary and worker (in either order) while Uruk builds vulture after granary.

 

[lymond]

I think yall are misunderstanding my comments about Eridu. I did not say this city would not be whipped, just not now. Once it's FPs are farmed it can take some whips at smaller size (I think it's actually +8 Cam) but right now it does not have the extra food nor are the FPs farmed, yet it has quite productive tiles to work to get out a decently timed worker as opposed to waiting for growth and a granary whip. Its food is not of such worth now as to whip it and whipping off a copper mine now while the city is low food is silly.

Many of these points yall are making are "future". What I'm talking about is "now" or "what should have been done". We've been nerfing the heck out of our game so far.

You make the most of the current situation

Yall know me, I love me some whip

 

[Cam_H]

Spoiler :

'Yes' we need larger cities generally and maybe there's been some misunderstanding about when to whip, but Eridu's Granary strikes me as a key asset.

I still like Metal Casting bulb, but happy to go with the majority.

 

[astre]

Not sure between currency and metal casting... I prefer bulb currency that do a TM btw...
if we need early astro then MC is the wrong choice.