The European Project: the future of the EU.

[Hrothbern]

Could she have fired him? Calling for his resignation and then Ireland's Government continuing to back him would have looked worse for her I think. The Commission is not a government after all, it functions by different rules. Public Opinion isn't the most important thing for von der Leyen, there could have been any other "Brussels-interior" reasons for her lateness - not wanting to having to reshuffle her commission posts for example.

By the EU rules the country that delivers a Commissioner is forbidden to take formal influence. Formally only Ursula von der Leyen is entitled.
Think back for example on Tusk. The Polish government wanted him fired, but Juncker could fully ignore that.

The informal role of Ireland in this affair is unclear to me:
On the one hand a lot of noise was made by the PM and the former PM. But on the other hand that could have been for domestic purposes only, because Ireland was quite happy with an Irish guy on that EU trade position.
Brexit was ofc mentioned, but that is handled by Barnier.
If this dual position would be the case Ireland behaved badly imo. But very perhaps negotiations took place in the background to increase the likelyhood that Ireland would get back that trade position.
It can ofc also be that another country, or a group of countries saw this affair as an opportunity to change the balance. Getting a consensus on that taking some time.
So yes... a lot is possible we do not know... do not know yet (to some or more degree).

I do BTW think that public opinion is important for Ursula von der Leyen. Not in a formal way with public election as accountability, but in terms of credibility of the brand EU.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Phil Hogan resigns because of the golf-gate scandal.

Unprofessional PR management of Ursula von der Leyen imo to let it take that long... let it capturing the newsmedia headlines that long.

https://www.politico.eu/article/phil-hogan-resigns-as-eu-trade-boss-over-golfgate-scandal/

Could she have fired him? Calling for his resignation and then Ireland's Government continuing to back him would have looked worse for her I think. The Commission is not a government after all, it functions by different rules. Public Opinion isn't the most important thing for von der Leyen, there could have been any other "Brussels-interior" reasons for her lateness - not wanting to having to reshuffle her commission posts for example.

By the EU rules the country that delivers a Commissioner is forbidden to take formal influence. Formally only Ursula von der Leyen is entitled.
Think back for example on Tusk. The Polish government wanted him fired, but Juncker could fully ignore that.

The informal role of Ireland in this affair is unclear to me:
On the one hand a lot of noise was made by the PM and the former PM. But on the other hand that could have been for domestic purposes only, because Ireland was quite happy with an Irish guy on that EU trade position.
Brexit was ofc mentioned, but that is handled by Barnier.
If this dual position would be the case Ireland behaved badly imo. But very perhaps negotiations took place in the background to increase the likelyhood that Ireland would get back that trade position.
It can ofc also be that another country, or a group of countries saw this affair as an opportunity to change the balance. Getting a consensus on that taking some time.
So yes... a lot is possible we do not know... do not know yet (to some or more degree).

I do BTW think that public opinion is important for Ursula von der Leyen. Not in a formal way with public election as accountability, but in terms of credibility of the brand EU.

I am not sure that I agree that the EU Commission is not government, but the meaning of words such as government can become
ambiguous with translation between languages and in the interpreting context of differing constitutions, and this is not my main point.

I think that the forced resignation occurred due to a combination of reasons:

A): EU Commission won't want to fire a commissioner at the request of a member state government
because that concedes power back to the nominating member state.

B): EU Commission doesn't want to fire a functionally incompetent commissioner
because that admits it is not always competent.

C): EU Commission doesn't want to fire a commissioner because he/she has broken
the rules on Coronavirus/Expense claims whatever because they know full well that he/she
is unlikely to be the only one, and there is a very nasty risk of precedent, slippery slope.

D): EU Commission does not want to have to precisely formalise its internal working and
potentially have them exposed to the ECJ and public opnion if the commissioner disputes it
It might be able to duck that risk by indefinitely suspending his credentials without formally
firing him, but that is messy and may have its own complications in terms of ongoing working.


But in this instance reasons A and C have stuck, and by letting them stick,
Phil Hogan has provided reason B.

And with all three reasons applying, the Commission sees no reason
to retain Phil Hogan who'd merely be a discredited lame duck.

And by resigning the difficulties of Reason D disappear.

By the way, I think that it was correct for Ursula von der Leyen not to
rush into immediate action; and instead ask him to give his own account

That enables an accused to:

(a) repudiate allegations (if false)
(b) admit allegations
(c) perjure themselves.

 

[Kyriakos]

so , ı hear the French have been selling 12 Rafales to some peoples somewhere in the Mediterranean for all the effort they spent in defence of Liberty and Freedom and Fraternity and Dignity of Mankind . And somewhat in isolation people are speaking . For the next step , which is the invasion and destruction of lran , which was imposed on America by the difficulties of bayonet fighting with a bunch of losers , Arab countries must be made loveable (as Allies) which means they have to make peace with lsrael which means there has to be some bogeyman to force Arab countries to do so which means the same bogeyman should have undisputed control at home which means Ankara navtexes Athens' navtex that had navtexed Ankara's and so on and onion like one layer comes over another . Won't our dear allies in NATO , namely them Greeks like shut up ? Now that Malazgirt celebrations are a celebration of the new palace built on location and some other defeat of Greeks closer in time (say 1922) will not be celebrated because Coronavirus ... Yes , Greece will do exactly nothing because EU and USA will be very cross if anything happens to New Turkey ... Still better off they are , a few years ago all them Arab Countries pressed Berlin to force Athens to sell all the islands in the Aegean so that the Arab countries could dry our treasury as go betweens and refuse to turn them over , too ...

(and to @Marla_Singer )

You know, r16, it is pretty clear that war is coming. Doesn't your country even have declared it will go to war if Greece extends its zone of naval control to 12 nautical miles, as is international law of the sea? This just happened with the western part and was announced it will happen for the aegean too.
I think you cannot fail to see it is Turkey which caused this war. I mean what did you expect when apparently your country is built on some nervous attempt to keep territories it supposedly got since 1071. When you yourselves identify you are living in stolen land - why else celebrate a victory 1000 years ago? it is simply stupid - you'd destabilize everything by simply existing, let alone now with the ridiculous aspirations to control half the aegean.

The aegean was lost for you in the first balkan war, maybe get over it like we don't ask for everything to be returned.

Now your illiterate Erdogan (who last time when referring to Matzikert managed to confuse emperor Romanos Diogenes with Diogenes the cynic philosopher... what a ridiculous moron) spoke of a "turkish minority" in greek Thrace. I am sure you know that the Lausannes treaty names the minority as precisely non-turkish, else it would have been kicked out with the exchange of populations. Your countrymen are living a dangerous dream, that Turkey can reach to before 1923, but hopefully it will soon end, and as noted 1919-20 also is before 1923.

On a final note, I'd like to say that without all this crap by Turkey, people here would never wish to be at war. This isn't a warlike population or country. But certainly if war happens, it will become one, and it won't be a pretty sight.

 

[r16]

would have to qoute some manual on why Goverments with falling acceptance (measured by whatever and whichever metrics) tend to remember foreign troubles tend to unite countries

which is generally read as the Goverment must be trusted and followed in the time of crisis in not only 1984s

fake economy is fake , R rate is 1.7 in coronavirus and it would be awesome if one could believe that , the Arab coalition scares me not and why it should , considering ı don't owe anything to USA and everything that comes after it

small print in stuff requires inspiration in me to write stuff , but the price of power in 1984 has been giving away the Republic in bits and chips and pieces . There are people who gave up land belonging to this country with blaring Mehter music , the islands given up so silently would require you to believe in the Çekoslovak Bahriyesi , with the last word meaning Navy and the first readily guessable and it being well before me

the crisis is being used to overcome "special situation" of the Aegean under the cover of "But, it is the PM who started it!" is not powerful enough to overcome the "special situation" . lt will remain a Casus Belli , in case Greek Media is ignoring this country has a different scale of territorial waters in the Black Sea

the wording about the minorities does not hide the fact or whatever that it was your own Venizelos ethnically cleansed your country even in a time of defeat , by full British support , caused massive dislocation of your ethnicity in what was to become the Republic of 1923 and fell short also managing to empty lstanbul , with causing the Greek minority to be removed as well ... The terms Muslim and Greek and stuff are generic and the Republic created an official history of BS that outright covered all sorts of minorities within . lf even Sumerians were like Turks , anyone coming afterwards with half a brain was a long lost brother , worthy of respect et cetera et cetera . The tax debacle of 1940s was forced on by the Nazis at the door , the rapists of 1950s let loose by American permission have formed the core of Congregation . ı don't fully get what Athens would actually gain from messing with minority rights except some org_smic sigh from the media on how they taught a lesson to New Turkey which wouldn't care , to Ankara which wouldn't be hurt enough and people you haven't met in "battle" yet . Looping back to the beginning as Athens unable to fight (not in words but actual stuff) creating a success story of other things . War is costly , it can cause disaster in polls and all silly stuff like that

and like finally your media have failed while gloating . The PM seriously criticized you people for failing to protect the legacy of Bizantium or whatever you call the thing . lf you Greeks had kept on "crying" about Ayasofya , he wouldn't have to keep pressuring in the Mediterranean , is apparently an explanation that everyone would agree . lt becomes riskier , if they were not involved as the primary actor , they would have already abandoned whatever allies they had already . lf you are particularly into stuff , it could even mean how you people couldn't do anything to Jews but New Turkey can , you know , right at a time when you are like allied to lsrael

 

[Kyriakos]

would have to qoute some manual on why Goverments with falling acceptance (measured by whatever and whichever metrics) tend to remember foreign troubles tend to unite countries

which is generally read as the Goverment must be trusted and followed in the time of crisis in not only 1984s

fake economy is fake , R rate is 1.7 in coronavirus and it would be awesome if one could believe that , the Arab coalition scares me not and why it should , considering ı don't owe anything to USA and everything that comes after it

small print in stuff requires inspiration in me to write stuff , but the price of power in 1984 has been giving away the Republic in bits and chips . There are people who gave up land belonging to this country with blaring Mehter music , the islands given up so silently would require you to believe in the Çekoslovak Bahriyesi , with the last word meaning Navy and the first readily guessable and it being well before me

the crisis is being used to overcome "special situation" of the Aegean under the cover of "But, it is the PM who started it!" is not powerful enough to overcome the "special situation" . lt will remain a Casus Belli , in case Greek Media is ignoring this country has a different scale of territorial waters in the Black Sea

Well, yes, in the black sea Turkey obviously has extended the zone to 12 miles. Pretty strange that it is accepted there, but not in the Aegean. That said, war is coming - and personally I don't think it is at all allowing for hope it won't, that Erdo and his party try to pretend the "reason for war" was just about specific extension of zone in the Aegean.
The bigger problem here is that such a war won't be an easy or nice affair, nor could it stop after a few days. Israel seems to be pretty set in its change of position too. I saw a report that the head of Mossad claimed the bigger threat to Israel no longer is Iran - you can guess who he named.

 

[r16]

freshly woken up , so the post was edited and stuff . As said the utility of New Turkey to lsrael is the bogeyman thing that will clear like totally pro-lsraeli Arab Goverments to come out and embrace Tel Aviv .

 

[Kyriakos]

freshly woken up , so the post was edited and stuff . As said the utility of New Turkey to lsrael is the bogeyman thing that will clear like totally pro-lsraeli Arab Goverments to come out and embrace Tel Aviv .

Jokes aside, Israel isn't allied to Greece, or anyone. They are allied to their own self. But they never were an ally to Greece, while they did use to be (at least implicitly) pro-Turkey. If this changes - and nominally it has, but this by itself doesn't mean much - obviously it won't change things for the worst for Greece.
Would be interesting to see what would happen if war breaks out, though. Apart from the various crazy (eurarab muslim) theories about the "legacy of Byzantine" which you are aware of, other hells may break loose, and all active hells seem to be situated in Anatolia, not here.

 

[r16]

stupid tablet ate my post again by running out of charge again . So ,this reason behind Athens' confidence and whatever , without insulting anyone on how you wouldn't "dare unless" is lsrael and its supposed hold on Washington and how this is supposed to check things before stuff goes ugly . That Civil War would be messy has been decided many years ago , the blinding speed it will become just a part of a much wider situation has also been decided many many years ago . Exact reason why it doesn't happen , you know . Mind boggling ? There always comes a moment one should take the step , trusting in God . Has so far worked good enough . And like totally irrelevant here is just an example of what kept me up so much late last night . ı have New Star Wars gear to design !

 

[Hrothbern]

stupid tablet ate my post again by running out of charge again . So ,this reason behind Athens' confidence and whatever , without insulting anyone on how you wouldn't "dare unless" is lsrael and its supposed hold on Washington and how this is supposed to check things before stuff goes ugly . That Civil War would be messy has been decided many years ago , the blinding speed it will become just a part of a much wider situation has also been decided many many years ago . Exact reason why it doesn't happen , you know . Mind boggling ? There always comes a moment one should take the step , trusting in God . Has so far worked good enough . And like totally irrelevant here is just an example of what kept me up so much late last night . ı have New Star Wars gear to design !View attachment 567404

I saw mentioned that Greece formally ordered 20 F35's two weeks ago.
And AFAIK the US is not going to deliver those 100 F35's to Turkey because of that Russian S400 air-defence missile system of Turkey.

 

[r16]

some troll's apprentice waited a full month to ban me in practical terms in somewhere else , because his master , a Lockmart troll of global repute , remembers me saying over my dead body with regards to F-35 and its service in the Turkish Air Force , which is dead anyhow . ı don't care for S-400 or the "air defence" it can provide either , since it was like also me who told Russians that they shouldn't sell and ı will not advocate for its sale to Americans either , because , like why ı should ?

 

[Kyriakos]

some troll's apprentice waited a full month to ban me in practical terms in somewhere else , because his master , a Lockmart troll of global repute , remembers me saying over my dead body with regards to F-35 and its service in the Turkish Air Force , which is dead anyhow . ı don't care for S-400 or the "air defence" it can provide either , since it was like also me who told Russians that they shouldn't sell and ı will not advocate for its sale to Americans either , because , like why ı should ?

Really, r16, at some point you should reveal just who you are. I still am not giving up the guess you are a relative of the mustache:

And hopefully you won't disappoint by just imagining everything up

 

[r16]

am an idiot protected by :

(retired)

 

[Kyriakos]

^Applegarth Vader.

(originally I was trying to find some non surname, noun which rhymes with Darth, and then use "evader" as the second part, but apparently there is none. Fortunately there is the rare surname with Apple as part so... ).

At any rate the mustache makes a similar hand gesture to Darth/Applegarth.

 

[r16]

yeah , am happy there are not thousands dead already , too .

 

[innonimatu]

I was going to ask whatever happened to Ecevit after the sultan installed himself, but of course he died some 15 years ago!

 

[r16]

he was part and parcel of the conspiracies , like he was too old , ruled over by his wife , how he had to wear adult diapers , how he was poisoned by coupists and how fast he recovered as soon as he left the hospital owned by the coupists , it was all his fault that when the CHP partizan President threw him a book of the constitution , he came out and said in a press conference and caused a financial meltdown . You know , typical when America has friends to be installed in your place . Naturally not much of stuff was ever proven , except his wife was really a "disciplined" party person and could be like harsh on challengers , she was like 90 when she walked some 6 or 7 kilometers behind the vehicle that carried him to the cemetery . A crowded funeral unlikely to be seen for New Turkey people , as proper Arabs just dump stuff .

 

[Kyriakos]

he was part and parcel of the conspiracies , like he was too old , ruled over by his wife , how he had to wear adult diapers , how he was poisoned by coupists and how fast he recovered as soon as he left the hospital owned by the coupists , it was all his fault that when the CHP partizan President threw him a book of the constitution , he came out and said in a press conference and caused a financial meltdown . You know , typical when America has friends to be installed in your place . Naturally not much of stuff was ever proven , except his wife was really a "disciplined" party person and could be like harsh on challengers , she was like 90 when she walked some 6 or 7 kilometers behind the vehicle that carried him to the cemetery . A crowded funeral unlikely to be seen for New Turkey people , as proper Arabs just dump stuff .

It is interesting - and very sad - to note that the closer this gets to war (and by now it is very VERY close to war), the more one sees, on videos online, all kinds of bizarre views being paraded.
And while on the turkish side the most flamboyant ones are about Turkey having alien or space-tech help ( ), there is a quasi-counterpart I now see from greek posters of obviously "high" intellect. And that has to do with prophecies.
This isn't good. Moreover, it's not the 19th century prophecy (which at any rate has some historic significance) where the red apple tree apparently first appeared, but a far more recent one, from the 90s.
What I do not get, though, is how someone can be happy to refer to that prophecy, given it states that Turkey will take control of one island, which will moreover result to a few months of hunger here (so, if one was to assume this prophecy had any reality attached to it, which I do not, it should simply mean that nothing is gained for Greece for those months, in fact it just loses stuff). Then, of course, follows the complete destruction of Turkey in an apocalyptic ww3 in Anatolia, which ties to the "red apple tree" etc.

Only positive I can see is that this doesn't change the fact that at least in Greece the public by and large isn't as insane as in Turkey. But that alone can't allow for much optimism.

 

[EnglishEdward]

OK, Kyriakos, what does Nostradamus say about a Greek-Turkey war?

 

[Kyriakos]

OK, Kyriakos, what does Nostradamus say about a Greek-Turkey war?

"In the city of god, two brothers torn by hate"?*
Cause most of the turks are just islamized greeks


*which, by the way, was on the cover of supposedly serious german magazine Spiegel, after the 9/11 attack. So not only here will one find loons.

 

[r16]

ı fail to understand the pessimism over there . EU has made some make-believe threats to New Turkey but Macron robbing you people with his yuge help and alliedness against us has now got softer . You are now buying only 10 Rafales and he will give you 8 free . Yeah , maybe ı shouldn't have mentioned it ! No war , unless some bunch of lunatics in and around really decide that they can win Armageddon and stuff ...

that we won't be allowed to fight as both sides of the Aegean was long known , the clash (as it would come to be) has to be won for diplomatic stuff and taking one island until peace treaty and similar has been fixed for ages . Back in 74 it was Midilli , maybe the landed force would fail to get the whole until the ceasefire , if it went into a fighting in addition to Cyprus . This is of course known to your people , that 1.5 terabytes of secret war plans Congregation stole while bringing Democracy to the country has been long forwarded to you by anyone from Berlin to Washington . Even the thing of faking in front of the islands , to attack on land and drive upto Selanik and then returning to the islands is well known , because ı read it on the Turkish echo chambers two nights ago . Not that your people believed that it could be done , but you might have heard they widened all the canals in Western Thrace by like 2 meters so that our assault bridges would fail to span them ...

naturally everybody with a mouth talks . But you won't be surprised to hear that when people involved have brains , you might be termed sons of neighbours with a tone that implies neighbours are mothers working in some not exactly likeable line of work , but nobody takes you for cowards . This island taken to be given back to make Athens comply with a larger set of returns might very involve anywhere between 25 and 40 planes shot down , with a couple of ships sunk with more damaged , like combined losses of both sides . To have one island taken with your people unable to do a thing would either involve an extreme mismatch , you know r16 going around in an X-Wing ... Or we having the kill switch , some way of hacking your entire range of weaponry that flies or floats . America has it , but how would they dare to fight us , if we had access to the said stuff ??

the starvation in Greece , according to this prophecy stuff , would only be possible if for some reason the entire gas-in-the-Med alliances were to turn upside down and USN , to say nothing of others , keeping an eye on New Turkey landing and because you Greeks are some unruly mob and would keep talking , sanctions are applied . lf you are somehow convinced that might just happen , ı have a friend from Nigeria . He is a prince and his billions are stuck in some legal issue , you can make a cool 5 million US dollars , if you sent a thousand to the link below ...

any armageddon type event in Anatolia will not remain within the borders of Anatolia .

do not feel much trouble by Prophecies . The only reason ı have let it known that Nostradamus had one about me was that it became this method of trolling Lockmart , and boy , it is obviously totally wrong ...

so , ı have no intention of removing a post of mine on what would happen to a claimed Greek island as a confidence increasing measure . Because that would be misinterpreted as ı didn't lead design lncom's T-65 ... Would end up in so many dead people . You might have a gut feeling the world is run by a bunch of idiots , especially after Trump's four years in the White House , but trust me , you have no idea ...