The European Project: the future of the EU.

[Hrothbern]

If diplomacy by bomb-dropping, interacting by bombing, and meddling in the wars and politics of other countries is not an EU thing, will the EU expel France?

Or will it just talk about "rule of law" and make threats to expel poorer countries that won't bend to the decisions imposed by the franco-german axis?
La france, c'est la france oui? As the former drunkard in chief said when exempting France from the EU rules he demanded applied to other countries.

well
many countries who are in the EU are also member of the UN and the NATO
The UN had a resolution, some NATO countries wanted action or were supporting a NATO action also based on that UN solution.
Brussels has not the clout to decide that and has not formally the position either.
It stays all a matter of countries seeking an ad hoc alliance for an action from various reasons.
That France is often a warmongerer is no news. That France had business or personal interests in that action also no surprise.
yes
France is France
which applies to more countries.
it won't change overnight.

 

[Verbose]

It turns out France is a sovereign nation as a member of the EU.

Of course a fully FEDERAL EU, a proper superstate, could not maintain such an order. But for now the EU is what it is, and France, and everyone else, is sovereign. And these days everyone in the EU is in a general sense a Gaullist about what is envisioned for the EU – except maybe France also behaves in a distinctly Gaullist way in its foreign policies.

 

[Hrothbern]

Lots to do about Brexit and the poker game with Johnson, but the patience is gone for a long game of cards with Orban and Morowiecky as well. Countries need the money fast.
The bypass of the EU financial package is being constructed as we speak.
EDIT I hope for Merkel that she did not make too many promises outside her informal mandate room as chairman she cannot uphold anymore, but I am afraid she did that.
And yeah... we face the same mandate room issue with Barnier but that gets more public attention.

EU budget
Just a corona repair fund without Poland and Hungary? "We will not capitulate to a veto"
Annoyance at the Hungarian / Polish blockade leads to the intention to rig the corona recovery fund without them.

Plans to get the EU corona recovery fund on track quickly, without Hungary and Poland if necessary, are becoming concrete. The European Commission has been investigating for some time how this fund can be legally put together with 25 instead of all 27 participating Member States. That could be "quickly and easily", according to a source within the committee.
European Commissioner Paolo Gentiloni (economics) confirmed this wish Friday during an online conference of an Italian think tank. “We will not capitulate to a veto. We are very clear to these Member States: we will continue without them. ”
The governments in Budapest and Warsaw maintain their opposition to the entire EU budget, out of dissatisfaction with agreements made on the link between all EU subsidies and respect for the rule of law. That agreement is a relatively small part of a huge package of 1.8 trillion euros for the next seven years. But the objections of the two countries are so fundamental that they block both the ordinary multi-year budget of over 1,000 billion and the corona recovery fund of 750 billion.

Add-on statement
The irritation among the other Member States about this has increased sharply. The temporary German EU Presidency is doing all it can to get the two countries on board. But statements by Chancellor Merkel, who suggested that everyone in this conflict should compromise, went wrong in many countries - including the Netherlands. According to them, the rule of law agreement is already a compromise, a "lower limit" as Prime Minister Rutte put it.
The European Parliament is also on this line. Watering down the rule of law conditions, which have been approved by a majority of member states, therefore seems unfeasible.
One way of satisfying both countries is an additional statement. This would provide a guarantee that the European Commission will treat all countries equally, and an assurance that these rule of law conditions have nothing to do with EU migration policy, a link established only by Hungarian Prime Minister Orbán. All "open doors," said an EU diplomat, "but if that solves the problem, we'll be happy to write it down".

Veto Bastion
Orbán, however, rejects this "insert" option. At the same time, cracks have appeared in the Polish veto bastion. Deputy Prime Minister Jaroslaw Gowin, who had previously been critical of the veto, said on Thursday that such an additional statement could be a solution. He was whistled back on Friday by Prime Minister Morawiecki, who said the Polish objections have not been resolved.
According to a senior EU official, a corona fund construction of 25 countries can be set up within normal EU decision-making. In that case, Poland and Hungary will seize in addition to the many billions set aside for them according to current plans.
Previously there was a so-called intergovernmental agreement, outside the EU, but that requires a time-consuming ratification process in all member states. One of the alternative options could be for the 25 countries to agree on the necessary national guarantees for the new-style fund.

Emergency budget
This does not remove the Hungarian-Polish veto against the normal EU long-term budget. In the absence of unanimous support for the seven-year budget, the decision will probably be taken next week to set up an emergency budget for the new year. That has only happened once before, in 1988.
Such an emergency budget builds on the past period (2014-2020) and contains only the most essential parts. There will be no new projects for the time being. Agricultural subsidies are largely continuing, but the greatest blows fall in the so-called cohesion funds, for the development of poorer regions. Those subsidies will fall by 50 to 75 percent, something that Poland and Hungary in particular will notice.
In addition, the rule of law mechanism, as a separate agreement, will remain in full force after its last procedural obligations in Brussels. However, to the annoyance of, among others, the Netherlands, EU President Germany is in no hurry to finalize this.

https://www.trouw.nl/buitenland/dan...llen-niet-capituleren-voor-een-veto~b26bf499/

 

[Verbose]

Lots to do about Brexit and the poker game with Johnson, but the patience is gone for a long game of cards with Orban and Morowiecky as well. Countries need the money fast.
The bypass of the EU financial package is being constructed as we speak.

One of the advantages of that sovereignty, it can be done.

Though possibly another holing of the hull of the good vessel of the EU Commission.

 

[Hrothbern]

One of the advantages of that sovereignty, it can be done.

Though possibly another holing of the hull of the good vessel of the EU Commission.

A proper functioning EU Commission needs also a proper set of rules as foundation regarding members deviating from the treaties they signed up to.
What happens now is falling back on the bare bones of the sovereign member countries.
The original Alliance of the willing.
No harm done imo.
If not positive because of confirming that we, the EU-25 or EU-24 want to be alligned out of our free sovereign will to pay up the money.

 

[Akka]

From the past few pages :

If EU doesn't order countries around : "EU is a farce, it doesn't apply its laws".
If EU orders countries around : "See, the EU is a tyrannical overlord !".

What it actually means : "My starting point is that the EU is crap, and I will grasp at anything I can to say so".
The usual BS of starting from the conclusion to find pretexts instead of starting from facts to reach a conclusion. No surprise here, it's been years that the usual clowns do it.

 

[Kyriakos]

Apparently (?) Holland (the dutch parliament) voted to ban weapon selling to Turkey (maybe Holland just had no other weapons to sell? ^_^ ).
Germany, on the other hand, remains an enemy of Europe and has no will to stop weapons selling to Turkey (doesn't care if those weapons will be used in a future war against another Eu member). Sadly it also seems set to try until the end to prevent serious sanctions against Turkey.

Countries in favor of serious sanctions include France, Austria, Ireland, Czech Republic and a few others. One of those supporting mildly that there are sanctions is the protectorate of Greece

 

[Hrothbern]

Apparently (?) Holland (the dutch parliament) voted to ban weapon selling to Turkey (maybe Holland just had no other weapons to sell? ^_^ ).
Germany, on the other hand, remains an enemy of Europe and has no will to stop weapons selling to Turkey (doesn't care if those weapons will be used in a future war against another Eu member). Sadly it also seems set to try until the end to prevent serious sanctions against Turkey.

Countries in favor of serious sanctions include France, Austria, Ireland, Czech Republic and a few others. One of those supporting mildly that there are sanctions is the protectorate of Greece

In the past 15 years the Netherlands exported in total for 500 million Euro weapon systems and components to Turkey and decided last year (October14) to stop giving new export licenses.
It is all about components and after sales wear and tear components to a wide variety of NATO standard weapons like the F-16, tanks, ships etc.
https://pointer.kro-ncrv.nl/artikelen/nederland-verkocht-turkije-in-15-jaar-voor-494-miljoen-euro-wapens#:~:text=Lees de samenvatting-,Samenvatting,zoals pantservoertuigen, vliegtuigen of radarsystemen.

 

[r16]

ah yes . lf evil Germany is selling weapons to the devil , then stop buying from Germany , they will surely stop selling to the devil .

 

[Kyriakos]

ah yes . lf evil Germany is selling weapons to the devil , then stop buying from Germany , they will surely stop selling to the devil .

They'll have less people to sell to if the Eu dissolves and they are hit with 100% tariffs.
The more interesting question, however, is how they will try to sell "no serious sanctions". It's not like Germany has much to argue, and the "deal with it" card is wearing thin as well.

 

[r16]

oh God , please let there be sanctions and we can go to war . Considering the tablet started to have ads which like basically fills the screen and touching no pop-ups this way or that way makes no difference ... Like ı even found a Google page that should have stopped them from appearing . Because this is what happens when politeness is taken as weakness or something and we will be so polite while making people eat things they shouldn't eat ... Or just an example of goddamned Google should be like banned in this country because the fake economy is fake and they want money and money is the only thing that's ever important for a company and like they are driving up the ads before money from this country dries up . Just like the EU loves this country so much to bring democracy and what not and make silly sounds to that end as Democracy dies with a thunderous applause and ı am going to break things when the first pundit jokes about it , too .

translation , yeah , EU is gonna sanction New Turkey and it will be like totally so scary , to make me cry even .

(Yeah , it might also be pressure . When people donot talk to you when you don't even understand why you were to be in a place where people can afford to avoid talking to you in the first place) ı either want to download stuff , with no ads or the red button on the table .

 

[Kyriakos]

oh God , please let there be sanctions and we can go to war . Considering the tablet started to have ads which like basically fills the screen and touching no pop-ups this way or that way makes no difference ... Like ı even found a Google page that should have stopped them from appearing . Because this is what happens when politeness is taken as weakness or something and we will be so polite while making people eat things they shouldn't eat ... Or just an example of goddamned Google should be like banned in this country because the fake economy is fake and they want money and money is the only thing that's ever important for a company and like they are driving up the ads before money from this country dries up . Just like the EU loves this country so much to bring democracy and what not and make silly sounds to that end as Democracy dies with a thunderous applause and ı am going to break things when the first pundit jokes about it , too .

translation , yeah , EU is gonna sanction New Turkey and it will be like totally so scary , to make me cry even .

(Yeah , it might also be pressure . When people donot talk to you when you don't even understand why you were to be in a place where people can afford to avoid talking to you in the first place) ı either want to download stuff , with no ads or the red button on the table .

Can't you use some techy thing to overcome the state ban/filter or whatever?

 

[r16]

in real life a wimp . ln make believe life a Starfleet Admiral alright but because ı would be like targeted by the very best , Stuxnet and up , Lord Vader decrees ı will be a wimp , because people like in capitals of the world should not be scared . Too much of fear kills the possibility of imposing stuff on people that will help them avoid getting burned , because some might try their chances and some might just jump off some cliff .

so , instead of fearing whatever EU might do that will cause us politely smile ...

Spoiler :

ı was in the echo chamber and came across people discussing their schools . lnspired to search Anatolian High by name in that forum , because ı didn't graduate from either of the two universities ı attented to ... Some 80 posts or messages . ı didn't follow most of them , certainly before or after my times there . ı learned a teacher of mine had died , it being exactly 30 years or so . Three more teachers had their own threads . Turns out one would ignore anyone and not just a 10 years old r16 , from the suburbs , and them suburbs not in the American way , all alone or something but then ı must have figured it out back then , too . The teacher for Religion was unpopular in my time , too ... but it is just unjustified in many ways . He certainly let me be in the days ı would arrive at school with a mechanical pencil , eraser , graphite sticks or whatever to load in the pencil , a paper with a chess board drawn with the said pencil and a plastic bag containing the 32 pieces . All neatly fitting in the pockets of the school jacket .

people are also wrong about a thing or two about the music teacher . Like they were afraid of his written exams !?? A myth because he never made such a thing ? ı had at least two , designed to let the fools who couldn't play any musical instrument pass the class strictly ordered by the school because ı knew he would like to fail me forever or whatever . Never understood the hush it would bring , apparently it might have involved reading the "better answers" in front of the class . Especially liked the irony of being a "composer" through writing a couple of musical notes . Turns out he was really cool to some , beyond the facade . Human foibles you know , no one can truly hate everyone with the exception of none , unless totally wrecked in mind . ı was growing up , in all probability eaten by the realisation that ı would amount to exactly nothing in life though unable to accept it , let alone saying it aloud and he and ı would be in the same classroom once in a week , nothing impossibly difficult .

moral of the story ? ı think that would be that we will not be impressed by any sanctions from EU , UN , US , anyone , anything ...

moral of the story ? The ads re-appear as soon as ı finish this to post ... Oh how much ı look forward to meet people , any people .

 

[Colonel]

I think given the UK's exit we should form an Anglo-sphere economic alliance out of the remaining commonwealth countries and the US. We could organize a trade, travel, etc agreement as one Anglo-sphere with the EU. I would also consider including Far East countries such as Japan and South Korea.

 

[Patine]

I think given the UK's exit we should form an Anglo-sphere economic alliance out of the remaining commonwealth countries and the US. We could organize a trade, travel, etc agreement as one Anglo-sphere with the EU. I would also consider including Far East countries such as Japan and South Korea.

Considering the economic damage and unfair trade deals Canada already suffered under the original FTA, then NAFTA, then Trump's arbitrary "renegotiation," that doesn't sound like a stellar plan for us here in Canada. We'll just get exploited more thoroughly by some vulture corps in the UK, and possibly ones from Japan and South Korea, too, with same impunity the vulture corps in the U.S. have been, for our vast raw resources - and land and water. Begone with the vultures!

 

[Colonel]

Considering the economic damage and unfair trade deals Canada already suffered under the original FTA, then NAFTA, then Trump's arbitrary "renegotiation," that doesn't sound like a stellar plan for us here in Canada. We'll just get exploited more thoroughly by some vulture corps in the UK, and possibly ones from Japan and South Korea, too, with same impunity the vulture corps in the U.S. have been, for our vast raw resources - and land and water. Begone with the vultures!

I can never figure out where you fall on the political/economic spectrum. Creating an Anglo-sphere or NAFTA, ala FREE TRADE... allows for increased multiculturalism, spreads ideas and wealth to the vast areas within the sphere, and on a macro-level stops wars. If we were to have the commonwealth with a few additions the resources, ideas, technologies, and multiculturalism would spread to every region and thereby benefit the whole.

 

[Patine]

I can never figure out where you fall on the political/economic spectrum. Creating an Anglo-sphere or NAFTA, ala FREE TRADE... allows for increased multiculturalism, spreads ideas and wealth to the vast areas within the sphere, and on a macro-level stops wars. If we were to have the commonwealth with a few additions the resources, ideas, technologies, and multiculturalism would spread to every region and thereby benefit the whole.

I consider myself Social Democratic (Bernie Sanders is the most prominent American example of significant exposure at the moment of that specific stance on the Political Spectrum) - Soft Socialism (mostly for Social Safety Network and Greater Benefits for Citizens, like Health Care and Education) that works within a Constitutional Democratic framework and Regulated but Competitive Capitalism with Strong Employee and Consumer Protection. Where did you actually suspect and fear by socio-political and economic leanings were toward, dare I ask? My concern is that, when each of the original U.S.-Canadian Free Trade Agreement and NAFTA were enacted, each time Canada suffered notable unemployment, business bankruptcies and mergers, and drops in the Canadian dollar's value. Though both were indeed temporary in the immediate aftermath of ratification and enactment of each agreement, it's still very concerning. Trump's "arbitrary renegotiation," was a very arduous experience for Canada politically and economically.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think given the UK's exit we should form an Anglo-sphere economic alliance out of the remaining commonwealth countries and the US. We could organize a trade, travel, etc agreement as one Anglo-sphere with the EU. I would also consider including Far East countries such as Japan and South Korea.

London will then be the largest city in that sector of Oceania!

in real life a wimp . ln make believe life a Starfleet Admiral alright but because ı would be like targeted by the very best , Stuxnet and up , Lord Vader decrees ı will be a wimp , because people like in capitals of the world should not be scared . Too much of fear kills the possibility of imposing stuff on people that will help them avoid getting burned , because some might try their chances and some might just jump off some cliff .

so , instead of fearing whatever EU might do that will cause us politely smile ...

Spoiler :

ı was in the echo chamber and came across people discussing their schools . lnspired to search Anatolian High by name in that forum , because ı didn't graduate from either of the two universities ı attented to ... Some 80 posts or messages . ı didn't follow most of them , certainly before or after my times there . ı learned a teacher of mine had died , it being exactly 30 years or so . Three more teachers had their own threads . Turns out one would ignore anyone and not just a 10 years old r16 , from the suburbs , and them suburbs not in the American way , all alone or something but then ı must have figured it out back then , too . The teacher for Religion was unpopular in my time , too ... but it is just unjustified in many ways . He certainly let me be in the days ı would arrive at school with a mechanical pencil , eraser , graphite sticks or whatever to load in the pencil , a paper with a chess board drawn with the said pencil and a plastic bag containing the 32 pieces . All neatly fitting in the pockets of the school jacket .

people are also wrong about a thing or two about the music teacher . Like they were afraid of his written exams !?? A myth because he never made such a thing ? ı had at least two , designed to let the fools who couldn't play any musical instrument pass the class strictly ordered by the school because ı knew he would like to fail me forever or whatever . Never understood the hush it would bring , apparently it might have involved reading the "better answers" in front of the class . Especially liked the irony of being a "composer" through writing a couple of musical notes . Turns out he was really cool to some , beyond the facade . Human foibles you know , no one can truly hate everyone with the exception of none , unless totally wrecked in mind . ı was growing up , in all probability eaten by the realisation that ı would amount to exactly nothing in life though unable to accept it , let alone saying it aloud and he and ı would be in the same classroom once in a week , nothing impossibly difficult .

moral of the story ? ı think that would be that we will not be impressed by any sanctions from EU , UN , US , anyone , anything ...

moral of the story ? The ads re-appear as soon as ı finish this to post ... Oh how much ı look forward to meet people , any people .

At least Unesco (maybe due to Qatar funding) appears to think Cyprus is just the greek part.

It now looks like a Whale.

 

[r16]

it was inevitable . That Trump and Boris Johnson simultaneously in power or within reach of it . Once again without casting any questions or implications or negativity or whatever on the poster , this is obviously a bad thing to happen . Like Trump gave May New Turkey as a colony , the often mentioned military glories of New Turkey happens as a proxy of London , the outright plunder of my country inevitably ends in the coffers of the City in London , because little jerks got s_xually full of lust for military contracts and forgot the advice of bigger jerks who had been there ı have been banned in two forums because of my dislike of the Quantum Experimental , a design for Qatar being developed in Ankara (not to the benefit of this country irregardless of its designation) and a moderator is on the alert on a modelling site for a mistake of mine to push them into banning me and the consensus that will arise in the "Left" that the Coronavirus is an Anglosaxon Frankenstein's that broke its chains , ı will simply say ... Pox on the Anglosaxon trading block .

 

[Patine]

Where did you actually suspect and fear by socio-political and economic leanings were toward, dare I ask?

This question is actually very pertinent, @Colonel, as many things you've said in posts and responses to me have shown, both by intimation and outright commission, a seeming view of having funny and wonky ideas about, and misunderstanding and misinterpretation of, my beliefs, my views on things, and my feelings on many affairs - ones which seem inexplicable to derive from my posts, like certain other bizarre, extremist, and, at times, slanderous accusations about very different, but just as inexplicable, declarations of my beliefs that have been levied against by certain other posters here.