The European Project: the future of the EU.

[Yeekim]

If Americans elect an idiot, should we have an idiotic Minister of Foreign Affairs?

If Trump gets elected, having leaders who understand need for strong defense capabilities is doubly important...

 

[Kyriakos]

If you expect Kallas to go against the US government, you must be "optimistic". She will be told not to by her handlers, even if we assume she wouldn't realize herself.
I mean, politically she is just about a global nobody, don't act like she is the president of France etc.

 

[Yeekim]

If you expect Kallas to go against the US government, you must be "optimistic". She will be told not to by her handlers, even if we assume she wouldn't realize herself.
I mean, politically she is just about a global nobody, don't act like she is the president of France etc.

1)"Handlers"? She is essentially a spokesperson: her job is to be personification of the voice of collective EU heads of state.
She has no independent political mandate as such.
2) "Against" US government? Strong independent defense capabilities of Europe are totally in line with Trump's politics - remember, his main gripe was EU freeriding on US.

Basically, you're making no sense.

 

[Kyriakos]

She campaigned on a very specific premise and not the ridiculously general one you alluded to. That premise will collapse if the US government is against it, despite having such a political heavyweight as its figurehead.

 

[Crezth]

The collective voice of the EU heads of state... does it say things like "the debtors must increase their payments to the creditors this year" or things like "it's time for the developed parts of the EU to support the undeveloped parts?"

 

[Yeekim]

She campaigned on a very specific premise and not the ridiculously general one you alluded to. That premise will collapse if the US government is against it, despite having such a political heavyweight as its figurehead.

She was appointed by EU heads of state. Her "campaign", if one can call it like that, was conducted solely among them. I wonder what is the "specific premise" you are talking about?

The High Representative does not make policy - rather, she is like a preacher - in a world where God is real. She can pick the audience and the time and maybe the chapter, but she can not change the book.

Of course, some people are better and more credible spreading a particular message than others. When the message is about raising defense spending and support for Ukraine, someone who has done precisely that as a former head of government is the most credible it gets.

The collective voice of the EU heads of state... does it say things like "the debtors must increase their payments to the creditors this year" or things like "it's time for the developed parts of the EU to support the undeveloped parts?"

That would mostly depend on said heads of state. What are you trying to say?

 

[Crezth]

Well what does that voice sound like?

 

[Yeekim]

Well what does that voice sound like?

Human. Soon female.

It won't be talking of "aid" from one part of EU to another however, since this is not a foreign policy issue.

 

[Snowygerry]

For the moment she’s silent because she’s not yet in function, I think she replaces Borrell in december, not sure.

Also - summer recess, Brussels is a ghost town now..it’s uncivilized to practice politics in July

 

[Lexicus]

Well what does that voice sound like?

I imagine it kind of like how in that iconic Halo 3 cutscene the villain yells "I am Truth, the voice of the Covenant!"

 

[innonimatu]

If you expect Kallas to go against the US government, you must be "optimistic". She will be told not to by her handlers, even if we assume she wouldn't realize herself.
I mean, politically she is just about a global nobody, don't act like she is the president of France etc.

That one doesn't need handlers, she's a born opportunist and careerist, always ready to turn coat. When the US dumps "Europe" she'll shamelessly try to pretend to love the russians. But I don't think they'l either forget or forgive, they were seriously pissed by these people.

 

[Kyriakos]

That one doesn't need handlers, she's a born opportunist and careerist, always ready to turn coat. When the US dumps "Europe" she'll shamelessly try to pretend to love the russians. But I don't think they'l either forget or forgive, they were seriously pissed by these people.

At any rate it will be darkly comedic to see them pretend they never aspired to do more than what the (then changed) US administration orders them to.

 

[innonimatu]

At any rate it will be darkly comedic to see them pretend they never aspired to do more than what the (then changed) US administration orders them to.

It's not true and the targets of their liberal crusade know it. The warmonging on the east (and indeed on anybody who wouldn't bow to the "rules-based order") was a result of the creed of the EU elites, for whom it was (and is) inconceivable that anyone wouldn't follow the "Rules" they make up. Many of them regard the US as a tool to be manipulaed into furthering their liberal crusade. Yes they were deluded on that, but because they over-estimated the US's capabilities, and underestimaned its people. They are smart enough to cut and run when losing.

The EU's ruling elites have nowhere to run to. Which is why repression and censorship is what they'll attempt to cling to power after the US leaves. It won't work. (Western) Europe is too diverse and the institutional power they hold is too weak. I hope to see more than a few in prision eventually. Starting with the ultra-corrupt and ultra-incompetent german woman. The belgians finding their backbone and arresting her even before she's out of the job.

 

[Yeekim]

The warmonging on the east (and indeed on anybody who wouldn't bow to the "rules-based order") was a result of the creed of the EU elites, for whom it was (and is) inconceivable that anyone wouldn't follow the "Rules" they make up.

Yeah. Those who insist that invading neighbors is not OK are evil warmongers making up their own rules. Obviously.

What underpins such crude reversal of reality, I wonder?

Fear of having to live up to past commitments given to allies? Desire to oppose and demonize the EU on any issue, no matter what?

 

[danjuno]

That one doesn't need handlers, she's a born opportunist and careerist, always ready to turn coat. When the US dumps "Europe" she'll shamelessly try to pretend to love the russians. But I don't think they'l either forget or forgive, they were seriously pissed by these people.

As if Putin could get permission from his handlers in Beijing!

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Yeah. Those who insist that invading neighbors is not OK are evil warmongers making up their own rules. Obviously.

What underpins such crude reversal of reality, I wonder?

Fear of having to live up to past commitments given to allies? Desire to oppose and demonize the EU on any issue, no matter what?

You should not ignore the reality of the current world situation.

America and the EU have set up a world order where it is on top and everyone else is decidedly not. And that is upsetting to a whole lot of people including unsurprisingly most of the worlds population who happen to live in those other places.

And Russia happens to be among those other places. It's not as huge a looser as say the French totally not colonies in Africa or the horrible quagmire of pain caused by american ambitions that is the middle east. But it's definitively a looser. So when a comparative looser like Russia stands up to the global order you will see a lot of the world cheering for them simply because they are sticking it to the evil empire. The details of just what Russia is doing becomes irrelevant at that point because all they see, and one might say understandably so is someone sticking it to the man.

After all, in a war between Russia and OTAN over some random piece of land in Europe the average person from the rest of the world can't even point on the map the only thing that matters is that Russia is challenging the evil empire. It brings to mind that quote from Churchill. If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.

 

[REDY]

It's not true and the targets of their liberal crusade know it. The warmonging on the east (and indeed on anybody who wouldn't bow to the "rules-based order") was a result of the creed of the EU elites, for whom it was (and is) inconceivable that anyone wouldn't follow the "Rules" they make up. Many of them regard the US as a tool to be manipulaed into furthering their liberal crusade. Yes they were deluded on that, but because they over-estimated the US's capabilities, and underestimaned its people. They are smart enough to cut and run when losing.

The EU's ruling elites have nowhere to run to. Which is why repression and censorship is what they'll attempt to cling to power after the US leaves. It won't work. (Western) Europe is too diverse and the institutional power they hold is too weak. I hope to see more than a few in prision eventually. Starting with the ultra-corrupt and ultra-incompetent german woman. The belgians finding their backbone and arresting her even before she's out of the job.

In reality I see warmongering only from one side. And its not even warmongering now, its very materialized. My country is clearly targeted.

I am pretty much against EU federationism I believe that we grow because our diversity and competition.
I also dont believe in cultural wars, identity politics and that we can change climate through.
I still do not see any liberal crusade. Liberals are simple to handle, they do not shoot.

 

[REDY]

You should not ignore the reality of the current world situation.

America and the EU have set up a world order where it is on top and everyone else is decidedly not. And that is upsetting to a whole lot of people including unsurprisingly most of the worlds population who happen to live in those other places.

And Russia happens to be among those other places. It's not as huge a looser as say the French totally not colonies in Africa or the horrible quagmire of pain caused by american ambitions that is the middle east. But it's definitively a looser. So when a comparative looser like Russia stands up to the global order you will see a lot of the world cheering for them simply because they are sticking it to the evil empire. The details of just what Russia is doing becomes irrelevant at that point because all they see, and one might say understandably so is someone sticking it to the man.

After all, in a war between Russia and OTAN over some random piece of land in Europe the average person from the rest of the world can't even point on the map the only thing that matters is that Russia is challenging the evil empire. It brings to mind that quote from Churchill. If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.

Russia was the winner, Russians have never experienced such prosperity and freedom as they had after dissolution of USSR. Now are russians back in bad habits.

 

[Lexicus]

Russians have never experienced such prosperity and freedom as they had after dissolution of USSR.

Is this a joke? Like do people actually believe this?

(For those following from home, the collapse of the USSR was one of the biggest human & economic catastrophes of the last fifty years - it is impossible to understand the rise of Putin without this context, which actually connects some dots. People who believe that the fall of the USSR led to "prosperity and freedom" in Russia would be easy marks for the idea that the present situation is an expression of the Russian racial character).

 

[Snowygerry]

Hm that’s a matter of preference. The collapse of the SU ended half a century of military occupation of Eastern Europe, most here considered that a good thing.

It was unfortunate that caused some problems in Russia, but you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs