The Genesis Turn

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

There is a post somewhere deeeeeep in the archives of the war academy talking about timing workers for Bronze Working, then using your first worker to chop another one, and then you have a chopping party and bam, you have two cities good to go, plus with Slavery, you can get your workboat on that coastal city going ASAP, etc...

I see this as more of a personal choice really. Only time will tell what would have been the better choice.

 

[BCLG100]

If you look at it like this, settle in place when the city is fully developed gains us at least 5 more river tiles. Now if as were philosophical we aim for a slightly more SE than CE we need to cottage the capital intensly.
Thus them extra 5 river tiles when fully developed will give us what 5 base commerce compared to the 2 we get from the sea throughout the game, so already we're making less than what we'd want. 25 to 10
Then add in the modifiers +1 for printing press +2 for free speech so thats then 40 to 10.
Thats all without being in bearo, even if you add colossus its still nothing in comparison. And not including the extra hammers you gain from universal suffrage.

Whilst 'city 2' with a worked would be able to perform the early function of a GP farm and possibly crank out a couple of GS's- say one for philo one for paper or similar.

On the subject of producing units, by the time we are producing units en-masse in the later ages we'd have what, 3 hills on the coast- going to be fairly heavy going if we're planning on just using that. Whilst we might lose slighlty on having a harbour it wont be much if we can establish reasonable land routes.

 

[w00ter]

And we need the commerce for upkeeping the Warlords army.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

And we need the commerce for upkeeping your army.

The commerce from the river tiles, yes. A whisper on the wind

 

[w00ter]

I actually meant the commerce from the coastal tiles.

 

[BCLG100]

Im confused- did my post not explicitly highlight how there was more commerce to be had in the original place?

The only real argument for moving is that we can get fish and therefore quicker growth initially which is sacrificing quite a bit in the long run.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

Im confused- did my post not explicitly highlight how there was more commerce to be had in the original place?

The only real argument for moving is that we can get fish and therefore quicker growth initially which is sacrificing quite a bit in the long run.

I am totally with you. I thought that w00t was considering the coastal tiles and not the river tiles, which is why I said what I did.

 

[AluminumKnight]

There's more commerce to be had... eventually. There's so much more of an early advantage to be had with the coast spots (SE and SEE), that I think it's a no-brainer. With the huge amount of food, we can pump out an earlier settler to settle that river. We can cottage that city. If you REALLY love beaurocracy in that river city, switch the capital later on.

 

[BCLG100]

The advantage being 3+ food? even with eventually a cottage straight off the bat is going to be having 2 food 2 commerce, the equivalent to the coastal tiles. So the only bonus to moving is to gain the 3 food? as that is the only benefit to moving whilst we lose more workable tiles.

Another point is that we don't even know how much extra whatever we might gain from settling in place as we can only see without a border exp whereas we know the other settling point is not going to result in a very good city.

 

[blastoidstalker]

a minor point to make but a usefull early advantage to going 1 SE to start is that you can immediately use the river side hill tile it is 2f 1H 1 C, which is good. It obvously can not be used if you settle in place, with SE, E it can be used after first border pop (when the piggies can be used as well 3F 1C). This one Commerce is not a game breaker but is usefull.

My argument about 1 SE is not about final commerce power of the city but the flexibility that coastal provides, at to me very little cost. I feel sacrificing long term commerece power for flexability is good in a game with a highly variable starting conditions.

 

[Joe Harker]

Settle where we are. It gives us river access, and the gold that comes with that, and it allows two decent cities to be made later on.

 

[Ballazic]

Like everyone else is saying joe, settling on hill, while may have defensive bonuss wastes a very valuable mine. We are going to need all the hammers we can get.

 

[Duke Blackstone]

it can always be a filler city later. You wouldn't want your second city that close anyway, unless theres more hills, iron ex

 

[BCLG100]

@ballezic

Hardly anyone else is saying that...

 

[Ballazic]

i have heard a lot more sentiments that we shouldn't build on the hill versus building on the hill.

 

[Duke Blackstone]

Someone needs to set up a prepoll

 

[Joe Harker]

Like everyone else is saying joe, settling on hill, while may have defensive bonuss wastes a very valuable mine. We are going to need all the hammers we can get.

5 river tiles is hard not to want, pigs and silk, plus a awesome burearcry capital with cottages

 

[w00ter]

if we move SE we could pump out those settlers even quicker to make your cottage bureaucracy capital (build palace in new city).

 

[BCLG100]

Whats the point in wasting all them hammers building another palace- we can just build more settlers with that.

 

[DaveShack]

Settling in place isn't a good move because it loses the fish permanently, at least for a worked tile. We have to either move toward the fish or away.