The Great Armada (West Europe 1580 - 1640)

Your opinion on unit value is also of interest to me.
And what do you think of the new units ? Even if France and League have a wider choice, England has a few already.

In-between, you can use this file that corrects the IH level 2 problem and adds a few things.

File deleted. You can use the latest version in the second post now.
 
LouLong said:
So from what your results show it is too easy (winning by Matchlock is not normal !). Arghh !

I don't think it's too easy - unless you want to have several difficulty levels rather than just monarch of course (or did you include more now?).. if you want that in single player it shouldn't be a problem, just have the usual AI production advantages so that they outproduce the human players.. I've played most of the countries far enough into the game to see that it was possible to do well no matter who you are (against the AI), but at the same time you can't just roll over the opposition no matter which country you are. The AI will always suck though, so it's just a matter of giving them the usual production bonuses to keep up.
 
You can choose all levels now. Limitation to monarch was for testing only.

Ironduck's experience is a bit the same as mine. Which means I am not the only one who thinks it is not too easy.
Maybe go up one level.

On the other hand (and if you don't consider artillery that Civ3 AI does not know how to use), I am quite happy with the way the AI works most of the time.
Playing as England, sometimes the Spanish landed on the East Coast (from Netherlands), sometimes they went for Ireland then for the West coast (from Spain). So I know it uses ferrying troops (and man when Spain drops 3 tercios next to one of your cities in ENgland, you know you won't be able to expand like crazy overseas ! Maybe your navy was good enough to destroy them at sea though which is the best strategy.
Some interesting strategy from AI Spain against Netherlands too. Sometimes Spain just ignores the Dutch core cities and makes a circle, capturing the towns in the East and North (of course making these cities "poorly" defended aims at helping such a strategy) but it is always nice to see that AIs can actually do something and not just be rolled over.

I am sure about that at monarch. Maybe lower levels make the AI dumb.

BTW dreadknought, I hope you will study TGA's AI.
 
I played for Scottish and take all England and Ireland but after it the game crashes with missing picture for some Scottish unit.(I forgot it) But its very good and funny.
 
Well, I'm still playing as Spain, I'm playing a holding action really without making much progress and the Vp points are about even (32K to 30K I think). The units seem very well matched so far, theres been a few citys change hands a few times but not much else.

I lost most of my fleet to the English Sea Dogs so the treasres are beginning to mount up in America but I'm determined to create a large fleet before fetching them.

Corruption and WW are the main problems I have but with a great deal of specialists I'm slowly making progress and may eventually get back into a positive income. Great fun and I'm off to play more now so I'll report more when I finish...

I'm already planning my next game :)
 
It seems the game has a hard time living up to its name - The Great Armada. Considering all the conflicts Spain is in it can't just focus on building a large fleet (and the one at game start is only medium size), so when fighting both the Dutch and English fleets it's easy to lose control of the seas. Perhaps Spain should have some more war galleons from the beginning?
 
Hi, this is a really great scenario! Its a lot of fun, I've been playing as England But Spain is a bit weak I think, the English navy is much more powerful, and I can get the Spanish treasure easily. Also, its a bit annoying that the Netherlands keeps on building heaps of priviteers and sinking my ships, but probably nothing can be done about that.
And, are the Sea Dogs hidden nationalaty.
Thanks for the good scenario!
 
Thanks for the feedback and nice to see a few find it enjoyable.

REDY : in my bug hunt I'd be delighted to know what is precisely the bug you encounter. I have check the Scot Musketman but apparently there is no missing file ????

@Ironduck & No idea : I lowered Spanish naval power but it seems I overdid it. I will increase it again (but not too much), especially with a few War Galleons to ease Sea Dogs hunting.

I have enough small bugs to release a 1.1 version probably later today.
 
v 1.01 released ! (for both SP and MP versions).

The initial Spanish navy is stronger and many small bugs have been fixed.

What remains :
Probably some more bugs will be found along the way.
Modifiying tech costs.

Comments, bug infos, screenshots welcome.

And if someone wants to write a review... be my guest.
 
Careful about making the Spanish too strong! I am almost positive that the English were the ones with the larger fleet, and have verified this to an extent on Wikipedia:

Spanish 130, Brits 150
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_armada

The Spanish ships had a much higher tonnage, but they also had some problems with their cannons, which were woefully inferior to the British cannon. Despite that, the English only drove them off with their skillful usage of fire ships against a tightly packed formation. Something that Zhuge Liang pulls off at Chi Bi well before this event...

I am not saying that there should be a massive redraw of the navies. I am saying that the Spanish inferiority in ship numbers, crew quality, and cannon, and the British inferiority in ship size and lack of a professional navy should be addressed. Which, to a great extent, it is. Giving Spain an even larger navy is not really entirely the best way to do that... ;p

Perhaps a health bonus to the Spanish ships currently in existence WOULD make up for this, and an increase in the bombard strengths of English ships to compensate (and to recognize their superior artillery).
 
Well, first it was really weak as it had no more war galleons (they come normally with a later tech) making Spanish carracks look like sitting ducks.
Then as some said, there was no real Great Armada, especially in SP mod (I did not add much to SPain in the MP mod, just gave them a couple of War Galleons that can actually try chasing the Sea Dogs). The Armada was launched in 1588 and if Spain has a large fleet in Lisboa, it needs to gather land troops for the landing, send them to Lisboa, get on board, etc... and during that time, England can use its Sea Dogs to actually build their own fleet.
If the figures you give are correct (thanks for the link BTW, I never think of checking Wikipedia), I think they don't represent the same things. That's the entire fleet for England but probably only a part, even if a "Great" Armada for the Spanish who still had fleet in the Atlantic (Americas), Indian ocean and in the Med against the Turks and North Africans.

So what do you think ?
And for SP, seeing the way Spain handles its fleet I think it really needs a bonus (and automatic AI bonus are land troops, not ships, so that even things out IMHO).
 
And about superior artillery, the Sea Dogs are the only ones to have lethal sea bombardment (they can destroy ships in harbor (like happened in Cadix) for instance).

That allows tactics the Spanish cannot use so I beleive that represents the differences well.

Of course the size of the English navy depends a lot on the success of the initial sea dogs sorties. But I believe that can give different situations so it is good for replayability. And I think historically speaking it is not wrong.
 
Are there ment to be treasures being made in England and the Netherlands? Because I've made quite a bit of money just from my own treasures.
 
Yes, apart from the gold from the Americas, there are a few buildings that generate treasures (= large taxes) :

International Harbors level 1 and 2 (1 is in Antwerp at the beginning)
Muscovy company in London.
Then West and East Indies companies can be built once overseas trading is discovered in some cities only (resources).

Money is very useful in Council and Limited Monarchy governments as you can rush-buy.
 
BTW no Idea, I have realized what you were speaking about : Dutch privateers raiding my own ships !
I will probably make privateers a tad weaker.
 
I'm playing as Scotland. Early game was tough as the money was running out of my treasury and I had to cut spending back to 10%. I quickly realised I had to go on the offensive so attacked England and took Carlisle. Meanwhile the Irish kicked out the English so I planted a colony in Ireland.

The Highlander is a great cheap offensive unit but why can't they pillage? The actions of the Sea Dogs gives me no incentive to ally with England. Even if I wanted to send troops to the continent I'd get sunk by them. I don't think it should be changed tho'. Just now England and Germany declared war on me. In defence I sent 30 hairy highlanders to destroy York :) The English now have Pikes so it's going to be tougher from here on in.
 
You really don't want any pillaging if you can avoid it in this game with the insanely expensive workers - workers are worth their weight in gold.. at least until you get enough money so you can rush buy them.. (and then they're exactly worth their weight in gold I suppose)
 
ironduck said:
You really don't want any pillaging if you can avoid it in this game with the insanely expensive workers - workers are worth their weight in gold.. at least until you get enough money so you can rush buy them.. (and then they're exactly worth their weight in gold I suppose)
I could pillage with Knights tho'. I just wondered if there was a reason for the inconsistency.
 
The thing about the English navy was that it was primarily composed of England's merchant marine, whereas the Spanish navy was primarly 'professional', although its professionalism was of no account.

The primary difference between them is best described by Mahan, but I do not have my copy of his essay so I will just write what I can remember. He talks about the French (who in this case have the same mindset as the Spanish)

The French bring a more stragegic emphasis to sea warfare as many of their admirals and captains were trained as soldiers before they became naval officers; their usage of fleets is often more efficient as it reflects upon a land campaign. However, their total emphasis upon the capture of strategic points cripples their fleet and makes it subservient to ulterior, and inherently inferior, objectives. The English, whose officers are frequently members of the merchant marine, focus more upon the objective of eliminating the enemy fleet, realizing that all ulterior objectives can be captured at leisure if there is no enemy force to oppose them. Their usage of their ships is often haphazard from a strategic point of view, but always excellent from a tactical point of view.

The British emphasis on the elimination of the primary enemy force on the seas is highly successful; Napoleon's similar emphasis on annhilating the primary enemy force as regards to land combat is equally successful.

The point is, the ship numbers are fine but there needs to be some kind of emphasis on the difference in aims between these two forces. The Spanish (like the French) have locked their fleet upon the capture of a land position, thereby crippling its ability to perform the primary duties of a fleet, namely the annhilation of the enemy force afloat. The English fleet has as its objective the protection of England, which obviously necessitates the proper course of action, namely the destruction of the enemy's forces.

The number of hit points a unit has is (in my opinion) the best way to indicate strategic significance, as these units are more likely to survive a combat with a higher health total IF they survive. They can therefore go longer without seeing a port. Combat statistics and bombardment seem to reflect tactics, crew efficiency, and better armarments.

A ship with better stats will, even if it wins, will still take more damage as a percentage of the total than a ship with higher hit points in a similar victory.

This was actually an act of shameless self promotion ;p

I am totally satisfied with the Brits having lethal sea bombard, and was actually unaware of this fact!

However, if the Brits are to be so shamefully outnumbered, perhaps you could give them a ROF of two on the Sea Dogs; it would make it so that bombard-and-run tactics would be far more effective!

;p
 
The English have less ships, but they are far more powerful, so I don't think the English need any strengthening. Also the Muslims Pirate Ships aree very good.
 
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