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the Grigori,What about them?

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Dumanios, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    What makes you think we don't already? Perhaps that is in Minister Koun's back-story, but just hasn't been written yet. (I have long given Koun the Organized trait in my version, which fits with the idea of someone who prefers a more centralized government. I don't know why, but I tend to picture Koun as somewhat Hamiltonian, and figure this difference may be what causes the event where his city splits away. He is described as a politician rather than a statesman or philosopher like Cassiel, and Cassiel's philosophy opposes the very existence of such a political class as that which he likely represents.)
     
  2. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

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    Because I haven't seen such backstory. :p

    If that's what's there, that's good to hear, but I hadn't caught wind of it in the civlopedia or across the rest of the FFH forum. Mostly when Grigori politics are brought up, what gets emphasized is Cassiel's beliefs and ideology. That's nice, but it also seemed to shoehorn the Grigori into 'this is Cassiel's vision'.


    Plus, I sort of keep breaking flavor and end up running Cassiel into a conquest/domination victory type and vassalizing most everyone for their mana, and that's for a 'peaceful' Tower victory. Not quite appropriate lore-wise, ya know?
     
  3. Seventh Child

    Seventh Child Chieftain

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    Yeah this happens every time.
    The Grigori have few victory conditions that suit them thematically. It's like in terms of lore they're just meant to just...be there. But in terms of how they play, the most obvious way to play them is as an aggressive, warmongering nation with superpowered armies fueled by adventurers.

    It makes it seem like there's some sort of self-empowered 'fight the power' thing going on. Like the Grigori are trying to usher the Age of Rebirth into the Age of Man where they've grown so powerful in their own right that they can challenge and/or no longer need divine intervention, but that seems like too aggressive a view for Cassiel. I imagine he would actually be opposed to this kind of thing happening. But that's how virtually all my games with Grigori go.
     
  4. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

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    Cultural and the Luonnotar are what suits them best. Unfortunately, they are the hardest for them, esp. the Luonnotar.
     
  5. Seventh Child

    Seventh Child Chieftain

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    Yeah Cultural is pretty tough for them too, they can't stand up to most other civs with their religions without going to war anyway. Luonnotar doesn't really seem to fit that much since not even the other Grigori or Cassiel pay them much attention. I can't really say though, I've never tried it as it would probably be a great deal easier with another civ.

    One final nail in the "Yup, you're going to war" coffin is being Neutral and never having a State Religion. Some civs don't mind, but this usually puts you in a bad position diplomatically.

    But eh, makes sense I guess. They want to make it on their own, it's not going to be easy.
     
  6. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

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    This. This is my play-view for the Grigori. One reason I love to play Grigori as Republic is for the Senate events, so that I can stress it even more.

    If/when they get around to making more Grigori leaders (even in modmods like Fall Further), I definitely want a Grigori leader who thinks Cassiel is too soft in asserting Grigori ideals and isn't doing enough to protect the Grigori from the worsening world. Now, what those Grigori ideals are, however, is up for debate...
     
  7. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

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    Although I guess you can also use Ardor to generate Great Bards en masse to compensate for that. Still, in my personal modifications, I gave them some UB's that produce culture.
     
  8. William12123

    William12123 Chieftain

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    It would be nice to see a "stronger" (pushier) grigori leader, especially considering that this civ excels at producing great people kinda conflicts with the whole decentralized/enlightened farmer/ anti-specialist tendency that cassiels got.

    This is just a general note about the civ, but shouldnt they also have the tolerant trait? I mean, it cant JUST be humans that get sick of the gods.
     
  9. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

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    Sure, but on the other hand, all that philosophy of self-reliance and humanism should produce some exceptional individuals. I don't have much difficulty justifying a Grigori Great People focused strategy with the lore.
     
  10. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    Should anyone bother writing a pedia Entry about a certain Jeone, who leads the War Hawk faction of the Grigori Senate, i'd be more than willing to stick it into my Modmod... (he should be an aggressive Grigori leader)
     
  11. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

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    I'll do it, if you don't mind. I'll admit I've been brainstorming a more 'hardpower' (in not -Aggressive-) Grigori character. It might not be exactly what you want, though.

    Since I'm having trouble downloading any civ mods at the moment, could you give me his full name and picture?

    Or is this Father Jeone, the Adventurer, IIRC?
     
  12. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    please do!

    Damn, I knew the name sounded familiar. I'll change it to whatever you decide is a good name for a more appropriate hardline Grigori leader.

    The picture I have is:

     
  13. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

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    Definitely works. I'll get on it. Pester me if it isn't done in two days or so.
     
  14. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    thank you very much!
     
  15. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Chieftain

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    Small internet. In FFPlus, that same pic is going to be used for an Austrin leader. So long as the two don't collide, though, c'est la vie.
    I definitely agree that the Grigori could use a leader that takes better advantage of their excellent ability to conquer and destroy, though. Because adventurers are just plain awesome for that line of work.
     
  16. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Personally, I like the Minor leader the Grigori have in FFPlus...

    Prime Minister Esirce - Philosophical/Tolerant/Emergent - Neutral
    • Spoiler Pedia Entry :
      When I came into the chamber, Prime Minister Esirce was sitting at the head of the table, surrounded by his various sycophants and false friends. "Let me guess," he said when he saw me. "The Calabim again?" I nodded. He said, "they are a necessary evil. Tell me what they did this time." "Well, some of them are beginning to demand a return to the Old Ways..." "yes, yes, yes, fine, whatever. Does that mean following their religion?" It didn't, of course. The only time Lord Esirce could be expected to grow a spine was if religion was involved. "No," I said, "just their... hunting celebration." "We need the Calabim," Esirce said, putting on his Brilliant Overlord tone.

      "Yes, of course we do," Minister Alyeris said, smiling her false smile. Anybody with an ounce of sense knew that woman was loyal to either Faeryl Viconia or none but herself. It didn't matter, her effect on the empire was the same. She was presently bedding someone in the Calabim empire, I reckoned. Esirce was the only person on Erebus unaware of Alyeris' many, many questionable lovers. The debacle with the centaur was, of course, merely the most often joked about and satirized, but the list of confirmed partners ran on impressively, and was likely a fraction of the total. "You see," Alyeris continued, "the Calabim have many... unique skills that could serve our needs... wonderfully. As a matter of fact, I was speaking with Lady Tepes..." I grinned at my fellow clerk, Anna. "See," I said to her, "I told you, she likes women to." She silently handed over the coins we'd wagered as Alyeris continued gushing over the wonderful things the Calabim, especially the beautiful Lady Tepes, had to offer. Several other ministers went red, snickered, or showed sudden interest as they figured out the subtext. Esirce was completely blind to it all.

      Ragas the Lone interrupted Alyeris' ramblings, to the relief of some and annoyance of others. Doviello were assumed to be big, brutish, and stupid. Ragas was definitely big, but while his methods were brutal, they were also surprisingly creative, and Ragas was far from stupid. He had an incredible animal cunning, and adapted just enough to Grigori culture to be tolerated, while still being seen as a fool. "My pack is interested in these gifts," he said. "Will the People of the Bat offer it to us, if we will provide them with much Prey?" Alyreis considered, but before she could respond, Ragas continued. "To speak of Prey, my assistant read me Words from Front." Another farce; Ragas' broken Grigori and illiteracy were both lies. He'd made mistakes that had revealed both; pass him a document, and he'd sometimes read it over before remembering to ask someone to do it for him, and he sometimes soliloquized in flawless Grigori when discussing his latest schemes with his allies. "People of the Dog," that was the Bannor, "will not kneel. I demand money given that I may make them heel." Esirce nodded. "You! Boy!" That meant me. "My name is Remus," I reminded him quietly. "Yes, yes," he said with a dismissive wave. "Make sure Minister Ragas gets the money he needs." His allies would be drinking well tonight. So be it. I made a note to do it later, and he quickly forgot me.

      Esirce then spoke to his fellow ministers. "Now, what shall we do about the economic crisis? My trusted assistant, Lord Wordsworth, has told me he has a solution to our problems. Care to tell the council?" Wordsworth grinned. "I have a proposal that would significantly increase our wealth through wise investing..." Anna was a merchant baron's daughter and heir apparent, and as Wordsworth explained in his double-talk, she translated. "He's proposing they invest in a bank owned by a man who, he failed to mention, is his brother-in-law. The interest rate is..." she quickly calculated, "less than half that offered by the Khazad banking establishments. He'll accuse the dwarves of being gold-hungry subhumans in... five, four, three, two... yep, there he goes. More racist ranting. If you start believing any of this nonsense, please tell me so I can hit you in the... ah, he's done. Now we get all sorts of words that don't have any meaning but sound really good, more, blah blah, yak yak, oh, looks like his bank is invested in only a few industries, none of them especially stable and... yeah, that's a pyramid scheme right there, with him and his political allies on top. And people ask me why I invest so heavily in foreign companies..."

      The meeting finally ended. The ministers all shuffled out, while Esirce stayed behind. He beckoned for me and Anna to come. "Ah, Romulus! And your girlfriend!" I didn't even bother correcting him on either. "See, what you saw there was politics at its finest! Did you not see how I played each and every one of my ministers for their strengths, while minimizing their weaknesses! How I kept their various little schemes and ambitions in my pocket, and force them to use their skills for the good of the Grigori empire! Watch me, and you may learn something!" He sounded so certain I almost believed him. Until he added, "I do wish Alyeris would find a husband, though. Why a woman of her beauty remains single is beyond me, especially considering how many excellent bachelors she knows."
    • Spoiler :

    He has no traits directly boosting warfare, but adventurers + tolerant work nicely for that. :lol: Especially seeing as adventurers in your 'ethnic' cities can upgrade to UUs.... :mwaha:
     
  17. William12123

    William12123 Chieftain

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    Where can I find this "FFPlus"? Seems very entertaining.
     
  18. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Just click my the link in my sig. ;p

    Or go to the FF forum, and then the FFPlus subforum.
     

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