The Grognards

[Steph]

Originally posted by LouLong
so I list what we can probably agree on :

Units :

Infantry : Movement

- line (regular) N
- grenadiers (assault) N
- chasseurs/light troops F

- Guard (usually grenadier) N

Cavalry :

Hussars F
Dragoon N
Lanciers/Uhlans N
Cuirassiers/Carabiniers S

Movement indicates only references to other types, no discussion about MovPoints right now, please !
S = slow, N = normal, F = fast

I would go for something more generic, as there was a lot of national specifities.
The units line should be I think:
- Line infantry S
- Light infantry S
- Grenadier S

Cavalry :
- Light F
- Medium N
- Heavy N

On a second thought, I don't see why light infantry should be faster than line or grenadier at game scale.

We may also have a slight pb with France of Austria, as Grenadiers were not specific regiments, but elite companies of line regiments.

 

[Rocoteh]

LouLong,

If you look at the front-page of ACW, you can read:
"Main support for this scenario is here at CFC, in this
thread"..

It seems to me that you want the main support for
your mod./scenarios should be at CDgroup.org. and in
fact people SHOULD write there.

OK, then I have nothing against the people there or
the people at Apolyton, but I have no intention to join
these groups.

As long as I write CIVIII/PTW related things it will be
here at CFC.

In logic with that I leave this project.
It will have no impact in general.
I can only say: good luck.


Rocoteh

 

[Yoda Power]

Rocoteh dont leave, you are a great contributer to this project. As Lou said, this thread will stay active

 

[Steph]

Oh yes it will.

I personnaly don't like CDG very much. I will go there from time to time, but I will definitly post most here.

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, CDG has "quieted down" dramatically over the past year or so. I know some very talented people are making units and mods over there which they refuse to see posted here, but IMHO CFC represents far and away the best pool of ACTIVE designers (I actually joined J26 over there hoping to bang around thoughts on how to simulate guerrilla / partisan / national liberation warfare, only to receiving deafening silence in reply).

Just MHO.

-Oz

 

[LouLong]

Well (discreet) I prefer here too but to discuss everything in one thread is not so convenient.

Rocoteh I respect your choice of remaining only here but this thread will stay active so please don't leave. I am really planning on using your thourough testing skills (among other things).
People who don't want to do anything there can stay here news will always appear at both places, although not always simultaneously.

@ Ozymandias : yes I got that impression too. The initial "eternal flame" has vanished a little.

 

[Thorgrimm]

Gentlemen, i would like to introduce myself, i have been reading your posts with great enthusastic abandon. I have a couple of points if you do not mind my bringing them up. One the corps system which was instituted by Napoleon was not adopted by the other powers until Napoleon defeated the Austrians and Russians in 1805. The powers at that time used what was called the depot system and did not allow for great manuverability.So the French should be the only ones to start out with corps\army ablity until later. 2 The German states were grouped together in an alliance called The Holy Roman Empire controlled by Austria. In fact one of the peace conditions between Austria and France was that Austria was to relinquish control of the HRE and then the Confederation of the Rhine was formed from the former HRE members. So you could create an event that when Vienna falls to the French the HRE becomes the COTR under French control. 3 Hannover was controlled by the British until it was conqured by the French. Sorry for the long post but nobody brought up these salient points

 

[Rocoteh]

Yoda Power, Steph, and ozymandias,

If LouLong share your opinion I will stay.

With regard to CDG: There have been many conflicts
between groups of people/ individuals at CFC and the
leading people at CFC in the past.

I can not evaluate who is "wrong" or "right", and I have
no intention to seek the "thruth".

6 months ago Procifica had some conflict with CFC and
declared he would move to CDG. I did veto and said I would
leave ACW in such a case. Procifica choosed to stay at CFC,
but I assure had he moved I had left.

Again I respect the people at CDG and the accusations
against some of them being neo-nazis I regard as 100%
nonsense.

The point is : Now and then Scenario-creators and Unit-creators
leave CFC and say their new base will be CDG.

CFC have 36 000 members with 1 200 each month increase.
CDG have 1 600 members.

Many of those have left CFC returns after some time and
want to have their scenarios and units at CFC.

CFC permits that. I think that is a VERY friendly attitude!
They could say "love us or leave us".

"Now you are coming to us with 36 000 members".

Again I am not interested in the conflict, but I wrote this
to explain my position.

Then, LouLong if membership in this project =Membership
at CDG and loyalty to them I am out.


Rocoteh

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Thorgrimm
Gentlemen, i would like to introduce myself, i have been reading your posts with great enthusastic abandon. I have a couple of points if you do not mind my bringing them up. One the corps system which was instituted by Napoleon was not adopted by the other powers until Napoleon defeated the Austrians and Russians in 1805. The powers at that time used what was called the depot system and did not allow for great manuverability.So the French should be the only ones to start out with corps\army ablity until later. 2 The German states were grouped together in an alliance called The Holy Roman Empire controlled by Austria. In fact one of the peace conditions between Austria and France was that Austria was to relinquish control of the HRE and then the Confederation of the Rhine was formed from the former HRE members. So you could create an event that when Vienna falls to the French the HRE becomes the COTR under French control. 3 Hannover was controlled by the British until it was conqured by the French. Sorry for the long post but nobody brought up these salient points

@ Thorgrimm
First : welcome to CFC and especially welcome here in this thread !
Two : interesting stuff about the corps. That should enter the "tech" (event) tree. Could you provide more info on that.
Three : about the histories about the Holy Roman Empire or the Hanovrian dyanstic link with England (which explains the King's German Legion) do not fear ! The mod is in good hands ! Now I admit I am much less a specialist when it comes to purely military history. More precisely about the Holy Roman Empire it is extremely difficult to represent so we will probably have Austria as a standard power, Prussia, Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Saxony, Westphalia and the Rhine confederacy for the whole of Germany.
It could be represented maybe by an alliance at the beginning of the scenario which would end at the historical time that saw the end of the HRE but that could be a bit artificial too.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Thorgrimm
So you could create an event that when Vienna falls to the French the HRE becomes the COTR under French control. 3 Hannover was controlled by the British until it was conqured by the French. Sorry for the long post but nobody brought up these salient points

It would be very nice if events were included in the game
About Hannover, as I was very close to England, I suggest to keep it and use the "national hidden resource" trick to make KGL units buildable there.

I have also another idea, depending on the exact possibilities of this feature, but we could also have wonder that will automatically build allied troops every 5 turns in controlled cities, like the "Swizterland recruiting center".

 

[LouLong]

@ Rocoteh and Steph

Fine, I thought it would be more convenient there but if it starts splitting the team already, forget about it. I will keep the thread there as well though for different things but there is no pb of loyalty or monopoly to CDG on my part. And sorry if I sounded like I was "advertising".

I spend much more time here anyway. So no big pb. And if I could have a few different threads just for the project here that would be perfect. But well, you can use this thread only, the one at CDG only or both (which will be the most complete solution but not absolutely needed).

Is that OK for everyone ?

 

[Steph]

CFC is my "home". It's there and only there that I have posted SBB and CEC. It's there that I have posted almost 200 units with American Conquest and Cossacks.
It's also here that I'm working on SSS... So no, I won't leave...
I personnaly don't like CDG very much, because I always have the feeling that I'm lost when I go there. So I will do it from time to time to discuss specific points that will be better handle in specific forums, like units details. I'm a bit "fanatic" with it, being a figurine painter, and not everybody may be interested by details about the colors of button, or the color of the bakcpack (Loulong ).
But I'd rather have general discussion and ideas here.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by LouLong
Fine, I thought it would be more convenient there but if it starts splitting the team already, forget about it.
And if I could have a few different threads just for the project here that would be perfect. But well, you can use this thread only, the one at CDG only or both (which will be the most complete solution but not absolutely needed).
Is that OK for everyone ?

Don't worry, I would not have let you down even if everything was at CDG. It's just that I'm here very often (to often perhaps?), and seldom at CDG. So no utlimatum at all, just a warning that I will be more active here than there.

 

[Rocoteh]

LouLong,

OK, I am in again.

I will continue here at CFC.
Edit: It was not a ultimatum from me either. I just
explained my position, but in contrast to Steph I would
have leave if joining CDG had been a prerequisite, just
as I would have done 6 months ago with regard to ACW.


Rocoteh

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Steph
I have also another idea, depending on the exact possibilities of this feature, but we could also have wonder that will automatically build allied troops every 5 turns in controlled cities, like the "Swizterland recruiting center".

But if the (French here I guess) player were to build standard units at the same time that would double the military ouput of the area

I know you are more in favor of regiments. I would tend to that if it were not for their numbers.
But there might a solution : if we used the spawning wonders to generate armies, then the AI could use them (fill them,...). The pb Rocoteh encountered with armies in USCW is that the AI did not build them but here it would not need to build them ! Of course it would ned some testing (wit C3C) to make sure the AI uses them well. Two more tweaks would be great : unloading ability (giving some flexibility to the "armies" which is an important element at the time, especially for Napoelon) and different size armies (representing brigades, divisions or corps) that could be used differently.
That would probably be easier with brigades though and it would be in-between Steph's and Rocoteh's preferences. And then maybe other countries would not get the corps-size army before 1805.

What do you think of this idea (I know it depends on quite a few "ifs") ?

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Rocoteh
LouLong,

OK, I am in again.

I will continue here at CFC.

Rocoteh

Nice to have you "back" (after all you were still around here at CFC)

 

[Rocoteh]

Originally posted by LouLong


Nice to have you "back" (after all you were still around here at CFC)

I have NEVER had any plans to leave CFC.

I meant I was back here at CFC with this project!

Sometimes I am frustrated I can not use my own
language here, since I am very verbal in that.

Rocoteh

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by LouLong

What do you think of this idea (I know it depends on quite a few "ifs") ?

That we need to bombard Firaxis with emails to get a beta vrsion of C3C and check a few things before we settle everything in stone.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Rocoteh


I have NEVER had any plans to leave CFC.

I meant I was back here at CFC with this project!

Sometimes I am frustrated I can not use my own
language here, since I am very verbal in that.

Rocoteh

That's why Loulong used "back" and not back. I think he meant you are back without leaving (so back in the project but not at CFC)

 

[Thorgrimm]

Lou Long thank you for the welcome. The corps system was instituted by Napoleon after the Italian campaign,because he thought the current system of maneuver was too cumbersome. The corps system were basicly mini armies. They had infantry cavalry and the supply system integrated into the command structure. So each corps could do any of the requirements of a full army. Its command abilities allowed Napoleon to make decisions and give orders only to corps commanders. While the other powers commanders had to give orders to each divisional commander. Also the other powers were tied to their depot system, which meant that they could not respond very fast to Napoleons maneuvers. Thats why at the battle of Ulm when Napoleon outflanked General Mack and captured his depots Mack surrendered his entire army which was virtually untouched. The corps always had a line of march that allowed them to be reinforced by at least 2 other corps within 8 to 12 hours. At the dual battles of Jena-Auerstadt Napoleon detached the corps commanded by his best General Marshal Davout to delay the main Prussian army while he finished off his piece. Basicily Marshal Davout used his command structure to out maneuver the Prussians and destroyed the entire army. If you gentlemen decide to use leaders you should use the Daimiyo system from the Shogun scenario in conquests. My vote for an austrian leader would be the Archduke John. In 1805 he was roughly handling Napoleons Marshals in Italy, and had it not been for the fall of Vienna John would have reconqured Italy from the French.In 1809 he almost defeated Napoleon himself at the battle of Wagram. Thank you for listening to my prattle