The Grognards
- Thread starter LouLong
- Start date
I agree corps should be the largest available units
A man of principle
Personally, I have nothing against CDG -- quite the contrary -- but at times it seems, sadly, like the place where some very talented folks go whenever they have ANY sort of "issue" here; this is a matter of temperament and choice which I'm delighted CFC -- and its mods! -- respect.
... Still, I miss Wyrmshadow, et. al. ...
All The Best,
Oz
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
Rocoteh- Good your still here
Thorgrimm- Welcome to the forum
Lou- I think an army generating wonder for each(or maybe only the big?) civs is a good idea
Thorgrimm- Welcome to the forum
Lou- I think an army generating wonder for each(or maybe only the big?) civs is a good idea
2 observations -
1. "Germany" is going to be deplorably crowded with petty states which historically did not war upon one another (at least, IIRC, not between Freddy The Great's day and 1866); and
2. SOMETHING has to be done with non-Ottoman North Africa -- so herewith I propose a solution: Conjoining Tripoli (~Libya) west to the Atlantic as the Barbary States (aka "The Barbary Pirates) -- as all this terriotry was, with the exception of Morocco (where the Spanish had anyway established enclaves on the north coast by 1732 -- the "twin cities" of Oran and Mers-el-Kebir and IIRC Tangier as well.)
-Oz
1. Gracias
2. Yes:
(i) Ignore the "legal boundaries" of the German Empire (i.e., let those parts of Prussia and Austria which fell within it be part of Prussia and Austria respectively).
(ii) Within the German Empire, apportion Hamburg to Hanover, Dresden to Saxony, and Munich to Bavaria, and have those three constitute the three "minor" German states. (With Prussia getting Berlin and Beslau -- as well as Konigsberg of course -- that should account for all the major cities in the area -- except that I have no idea who held Strasbourg at the time.)
(iii) use that very cool-sounding "special resource" idea to let the British recruit in Hanover.
Best,
Oz
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
Did´nt you forget the eastern part of Germany(Rhineland)? I dont think we should mix Hamburg with Hannover, since Hannover was British. I would rather have 4 states with the british being one of them. We could also just mix Hamburg with Prussia or Rhineland.
Isn't the Rhine on the west boundary of Germany?
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
typoOriginally posted by Steph
Isn't the Rhine on the west boundary of Germany?
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Hello everybody.
I have had a quick read of all the previous posts (good grief, there are lot of them!), so please forgive me if some of the ideas below have already been covered.
(Ha! Name a subject that you DONT have opinion on Kryten!
)
This is a very good idea, and there is an alternative way it could be implemented, but there are some limitations that need to be considered.
Wouldnt it be nice if certain troops could only be recruited in certain areas.
Well, for the Alex the Great scenario (STILL under construction!
), I plan to use the notion of economic isolation to achieve this.
Adapting the idea for the Napoleonic period, we could have something like the following:-
National Peoples Instead of Resources
---------------------------------
So to build French units a French Resource is required, likewise an Austrian Resource for Austrian units, a British Resource for British units, a Russian Resource for Russian units, and so on.
Now each nation-player can be given the ability to build ALL UNIT TYPES, but only if they control the correct National People Resource that each unit requires.
So France, having the French Resource, starts by only being able to build French units. But once they capture the Westphalia Resource, they can then start building Westphalian units as well, and the same with the Saxon Resource & units, the Naples Resource & units, the Austrian Resource & units, the Polish Resource & units, and so on.
(These National People Resources would look really nice if graphically they looked like the actual historical flags on the map. )
You could even have it so that players receive different units with different stats from the same National Resource. So if the French control the German States Resource, they can only build German units with only 3 hit points, while if Prussia controls the same resource they get to build German units with 4 hit points.
Limited Road Networks
----------------------
This needed in order to make the above system work, because otherwise EVERY city under French control would be able to build ANY unit, because it is linked to it by a road network (being able to recruit/build Nepalese units in Moscow for example doesnt sound right!).
One way of doing this is to only allow roads to be built on ONE type of terrain. As jungles will not be needed in this scenario, I suggest that these be given a new name and graphic .dirt tracks sounds about right. These will be laid out on the map connecting all the cities and National People Resources together .some with roads on them, and some without roads, so some new roads can be built, but only on empty dirt tracks (this would still allow scorched-earth-tactics by plundering the road network, meaning that Workers, but not Settlers, will still be required). Harbours would also have to lose their trading ability of course, otherwise British soldiers will be recruited from captured American and European cities.
An interesting side affect of this is that Luxuries cannot be exported from one region to another, because the dirt tracks have been cunningly deployed to economically isolate each region. So the French may well find that the cities in some regions such as the Confederation of the Rhine are much happier under foreign rule than say those in Prussia or Spain, because the Prussian and Spanish regions lack any Luxuries.
(Note: as these dirt tracks are really jungles, there will be a chance that some units fortified on them could be lost due to the old disease effect ..attrition and desertion perhaps?
Oh, and Workers will have to lose their ability to cut down jungles .and stopping them from destroying all the forests would also be a good idea.
This can be done by assigning worker jobs like plant/clear forests/jungles to say Flight, and then not allowing anyone to actually be able to research Flight.)
The Spanish Ulcer
----------------
As we all know, Spain was a pain for Napoleon.
How about changing all references to culture in the game text files to say popularity? Then Spanish cities could build improvements (improvements that only the Spanish can build, because only they have a Spanish Monarchy government that allows them to be built) that generate large amounts of popularity, causing cities to flip (rebel?) from the hated French!
And what happens to the garrison? .why, they are massacred, or have surrendered to become prisoners of war.
This would give the French player the same problems that they had in reality:-
To control the whole of Spain, every city must be taken and held, but small garrisons wont prevent a flip/rebellion, while concentrating a large garrison in a few cites would make them secure, but leave many others lightly held and so vulnerable to conventional assault and capture.
Spread out and some cities will change sides; concentrate and some cities will be captured.
Supplies
---------
Logistics were a very important factor during the Napoleonic Wars, but how can we factor them into the game?
Well, heres a way:-
Change the name and graphic of Radar Towers to Supply Depots!
Now, if you are within range of a Supply Depot, then your units will fight better, as they are IN SUPPLY.
And if Workers use the Settler Wagon animations (a totally accidental and shameless plug on my part
), you will have columns of these wagons following your stacks as they advance
..wagons that need to be continuously built because they are used up whenever a Supply Depot is constructed.
(Using these wagons as workers will also give the visual impression of supply columns all over the place, especially when invading Russia and new roads need to be built on the Russian dirt tracks by these worker/wagons as the army advances.
They can even be captured from each other if attacked! They are after all just workers with a new look.)
Just a few thoughts.
I have had a quick read of all the previous posts (good grief, there are lot of them!), so please forgive me if some of the ideas below have already been covered.
(Ha! Name a subject that you DONT have opinion on Kryten!
)This is a very good idea, and there is an alternative way it could be implemented, but there are some limitations that need to be considered.
Wouldnt it be nice if certain troops could only be recruited in certain areas.
Well, for the Alex the Great scenario (STILL under construction!
), I plan to use the notion of economic isolation to achieve this.Adapting the idea for the Napoleonic period, we could have something like the following:-
National Peoples Instead of Resources
---------------------------------
So to build French units a French Resource is required, likewise an Austrian Resource for Austrian units, a British Resource for British units, a Russian Resource for Russian units, and so on.
Now each nation-player can be given the ability to build ALL UNIT TYPES, but only if they control the correct National People Resource that each unit requires.
So France, having the French Resource, starts by only being able to build French units. But once they capture the Westphalia Resource, they can then start building Westphalian units as well, and the same with the Saxon Resource & units, the Naples Resource & units, the Austrian Resource & units, the Polish Resource & units, and so on.
(These National People Resources would look really nice if graphically they looked like the actual historical flags on the map.
) You could even have it so that players receive different units with different stats from the same National Resource. So if the French control the German States Resource, they can only build German units with only 3 hit points, while if Prussia controls the same resource they get to build German units with 4 hit points.
Limited Road Networks
----------------------
This needed in order to make the above system work, because otherwise EVERY city under French control would be able to build ANY unit, because it is linked to it by a road network (being able to recruit/build Nepalese units in Moscow for example doesnt sound right!).
One way of doing this is to only allow roads to be built on ONE type of terrain. As jungles will not be needed in this scenario, I suggest that these be given a new name and graphic .dirt tracks sounds about right. These will be laid out on the map connecting all the cities and National People Resources together .some with roads on them, and some without roads, so some new roads can be built, but only on empty dirt tracks (this would still allow scorched-earth-tactics by plundering the road network, meaning that Workers, but not Settlers, will still be required). Harbours would also have to lose their trading ability of course, otherwise British soldiers will be recruited from captured American and European cities.
An interesting side affect of this is that Luxuries cannot be exported from one region to another, because the dirt tracks have been cunningly deployed to economically isolate each region. So the French may well find that the cities in some regions such as the Confederation of the Rhine are much happier under foreign rule than say those in Prussia or Spain, because the Prussian and Spanish regions lack any Luxuries.
(Note: as these dirt tracks are really jungles, there will be a chance that some units fortified on them could be lost due to the old disease effect ..attrition and desertion perhaps?
Oh, and Workers will have to lose their ability to cut down jungles .and stopping them from destroying all the forests would also be a good idea.
This can be done by assigning worker jobs like plant/clear forests/jungles to say Flight, and then not allowing anyone to actually be able to research Flight.)
The Spanish Ulcer
----------------
As we all know, Spain was a pain for Napoleon.
How about changing all references to culture in the game text files to say popularity? Then Spanish cities could build improvements (improvements that only the Spanish can build, because only they have a Spanish Monarchy government that allows them to be built) that generate large amounts of popularity, causing cities to flip (rebel?) from the hated French!
And what happens to the garrison? .why, they are massacred, or have surrendered to become prisoners of war.
This would give the French player the same problems that they had in reality:-
To control the whole of Spain, every city must be taken and held, but small garrisons wont prevent a flip/rebellion, while concentrating a large garrison in a few cites would make them secure, but leave many others lightly held and so vulnerable to conventional assault and capture.
Spread out and some cities will change sides; concentrate and some cities will be captured.
Supplies
---------
Logistics were a very important factor during the Napoleonic Wars, but how can we factor them into the game?
Well, heres a way:-
Change the name and graphic of Radar Towers to Supply Depots!
Now, if you are within range of a Supply Depot, then your units will fight better, as they are IN SUPPLY.
And if Workers use the Settler Wagon animations (a totally accidental and shameless plug on my part
), you will have columns of these wagons following your stacks as they advance
..wagons that need to be continuously built because they are used up whenever a Supply Depot is constructed.(Using these wagons as workers will also give the visual impression of supply columns all over the place, especially when invading Russia and new roads need to be built on the Russian dirt tracks by these worker/wagons as the army advances.
They can even be captured from each other if attacked! They are after all just workers with a new look.)
Just a few thoughts.
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
Kryten-Your idea about resources is good, but I dont think it would be very good for this mod. "Why?" Because this is a mod made with the purpose of designing scenarios, its not a scenario. Some scenario maps might have all the terrains in them, then "dirt traks" would be hard to implement(if not impossible). Also not having harbours connecting cities would be a mistake, since sea trade was very important at this time(cities next to coast would´nt have any bonuses).
Your two other ideas(Spanish Ulcer and Supplies) are very good and could/should be implementet in the mod.
Your two other ideas(Spanish Ulcer and Supplies) are very good and could/should be implementet in the mod.
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
Back to civs. This is my reviewed proposal for civs. Still only 21, but now all of Europe is included, so there is still room for adding more. I think that if we split Germany or Italy more up, these states will simply be too easy to conquer. Please state your oppinion asap, as we might aswell should get the civs finished.
France
Austria
Prussia
Britain, including Hannover
Russia
Spain
Portugal
Denmark-Norway
Sweden
Ottomans
Bavaria, including surounding perhaps??
Rhine Countries/Westphalia/?
Saxony, including surounding states
Switzerland/Helvetia
Netherland/Batavia
USA
Mamluks
Italy/Cisalpin Rep/North Italy, should be northern Italy including Rome I think(otherwise we would have to make Rome an independent state)
Maghreb/North Africa, just all nations of north africa that the Ottomans did´nt controll directly. This is not counting the Mamluks.
Naples
Poland/Duchy of Warsaw
France
Austria
Prussia
Britain, including Hannover
Russia
Spain
Portugal
Denmark-Norway
Sweden
Ottomans
Bavaria, including surounding perhaps??
Rhine Countries/Westphalia/?
Saxony, including surounding states
Switzerland/Helvetia
Netherland/Batavia
USA
Mamluks
Italy/Cisalpin Rep/North Italy, should be northern Italy including Rome I think(otherwise we would have to make Rome an independent state)
Maghreb/North Africa, just all nations of north africa that the Ottomans did´nt controll directly. This is not counting the Mamluks.
Naples
Poland/Duchy of Warsaw
Kryten, you manage to say exactly the same thing as I in 3 or 4 times the number of sentences, while keeping interesting to read.Originally posted by Kryten
National Peoples Instead of Resources
---------------------------------
So to build French units a French Resource is required, likewise an Austrian Resource for Austrian units, a British Resource for British units, a Russian Resource for Russian units, and so on.
Now each nation-player can be given the ability to build ALL UNIT TYPES, but only if they control the correct National People Resource that each unit requires.
So France, having the French Resource, starts by only being able to build French units. But once they capture the Westphalia Resource, they can then start building Westphalian units as well, and the same with the Saxon Resource & units, the Naples Resource & units, the Austrian Resource & units, the Polish Resource & units, and so on.
(These National People Resources would look really nice if graphically they looked like the actual historical flags on the map.
You could even have it so that players receive different units with different stats from the same National Resource. So if the French control the German States Resource, they can only build German units with only 3 hit points, while if Prussia controls the same resource they get to build German units with 4 hit points.
We could also make road unbuidable. So "national resources" can't be traded at all. And as they are in the same square as the city, they are usable only there to build units.
Very good ideas here!
Originally posted by Kryten
Supplies
---------
Just a few thoughts.
Once again, excellent ideas! Kryten, my friend, if you were not part of the CFC community, it would really be a GREAT loss.
Yoda, about your list, why dan't use Wurtemberg for Rhineland?
I have a small pb with making it Westphalia : it was a kingdom "created" by Napoleon for on of his brother. So I agree it should be there for some scenario, but not every time
I have a small pb with making it Westphalia : it was a kingdom "created" by Napoleon for on of his brother. So I agree it should be there for some scenario, but not every time
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
Thats why I said(or wrote
) Rhine Countries/Westphalia/?, this state should represent Western Germany. This is how I would split germany. S-Saxony
B-Britsh
P-Prussia
Ba-Bavaria
W-West Germany, or whatever name we will use
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
I just got an idea. Since we have available spots for extra civs we could have the same civ from different periods. Like having the Rhine Confederacy+all these different german states. This would make modding a scenario easier, as you did´nt had to change leader/country names etc.
