The Grognards

[Yoda Power]

Oz-If the scenario stopped much later then 1820 it would´nt be about Napoleon as much, but more a generic 19th century scenario. We would also have to come up with alot more techs, and you would reach the 1815 too fast, maybe even before it would have been possible to make all those campaigns. Its a good idea for a scenario, but I think this mod should focus in the Napoleonic era only.

 

[Rocoteh]

I think U.S. must be included should there be any naval production.

In the north you can also make the edge somewhere in
the Baltic Sea so AI "thinks" Scandinavia is a continents.

More "continents" will increase chance that AI starts
some naval production.

Rocoteh

 

[Yoda Power]

I agree, it does´nt look like we are going to run into the 31 limit, so we might aswell include them. Maybe we could include the Mamluks for some certain scenarios?

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Rocoteh
I had no intention to be impolite, but there is a reason
I do not mention it.

Are you from England? And afraid Napoleon's admirer try to burn you?
On a second thought it can't be. England is not a European Nation .

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by ozymandias
Nope, I quit after the ORIGINAL Squad Leader series -- university was taking up too much time.

PS BTW IIRC the best wargaming magazine these days is French -- Vae Victis, yes?

To bad, ASL is so much better than SL.
Vae Victis is indeed French. One of the first to work there was one the top guy in the French ASL player association.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Oz-If the scenario stopped much later then 1820 it would´nt be about Napoleon as much, but more a generic 19th century scenario. We would also have to come up with alot more techs, and you would reach the 1815 too fast, maybe even before it would have been possible to make all those campaigns. Its a good idea for a scenario, but I think this mod should focus in the Napoleonic era only.

I agree. We should start a bit before (1789 seems nice) and a bit later, like 1820, but not to much.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
I agree, it does´nt look like we are going to run into the 31 limit, so we might aswell include them. Maybe we could include the Mamluks for some certain scenarios?

Weren't Mamluks part of the Ottoman empire at the time?

 

[Rocoteh]

Originally posted by Steph

Are you from England? And afraid Napoleon's admirer try to burn you?
On a second thought it can't be. England is not a European Nation .

No, I am not from England in fact have never been there.

Rocoteh

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Steph


Weren't Mamluks part of the Ottoman empire at the time?

As far as I remember they fought against Napoleon independently(sp?). Ofcause they werent really a country by that time.

Rocoteh-I´ll bet an € that you are from a German speaking country, dunno why though

 

[Rocoteh]

Yoda Power,

I think its reasonable to have Mamluks as a seperate
CIV, since they had a very great de facto influence
over Egypt.

With regard to my background you are 50% right since I
have German Family-name, although that Family-name
is much more known in U.S.A. than in Germany.

Rocoteh

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Oz-If the scenario stopped much later then 1820 it would´nt be about Napoleon as much, but more a generic 19th century scenario. We would also have to come up with alot more techs, and you would reach the 1815 too fast, maybe even before it would have been possible to make all those campaigns. Its a good idea for a scenario, but I think this mod should focus in the Napoleonic era only.

Hi Yoda,

Again, it's a matter of "do we wish to force history's hand"? Had Napoleon not gone down at Waterloo (or earlier) his health might have taken him far beyond the tender age of 52; the political realities of Europe from the Congress of Vienna through 1848 were essentially stable, so the Civs would be the same; and the military technology ("technics and tactics" in Steph's phrase, which I like) would have only slowly / slightly changed -- yet there'd be enough advances to fill out tech trees very nicely for two eras.

BTW I'm indifferent to America in the mod per se, but it occurs to me that -- dealing with a flat map -- the map could literally accommodate two different scales, with New World tiles representing larger areas. This would necesssitate playing with both MF cost and factor, for both the New World land tiles and the intervening Ocean tiles -- but there's no reason this (for Civ) novel approach couldn't work, given the relative importance of the New World vis-a-vis Europe -- Oh, and BTW about that burning cities thing, some Yank I am -- the Brits put Washington DC to the torch IIRC.

Best,

Oz

 

[Yoda Power]

Oz-My main reason for being against this is gameplay reasons. However the 1848 revoluttions properly would´nt have happened, atleast not in that year, if Napoleon had stayed in power.

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Oz-My main reason for being against this is gameplay reasons. However the 1848 revoluttions properly would´nt have happened, atleast not in that year, if Napoleon had stayed in power.

My (albeit limited -- and very influence by my Marxian historiography training) POV is that the pan-European 1848 unrest had to do with the chafing of the non-noble classes under (1) the influence of Bonapartism / French Republicanism and (2) the demands of the increasingly vibrant middle class for political power commensurate with their economic power -- this latter is why I spoke of "wider forces" re: the causative factors of '48.

-- So, no, they a priori wouldn't have happened wherever Napoleon ruled, but almost certainly would have elsewhere.

-- Now, granted, Louis-Phillippe's rule in France exacerbated matters, but (a) France was of course where modern European republicanism had begun in the first place and (b) France wouldn't have necessarilly been subject to the chaose if Napoleon -- or one of his more competent marshalls, perhaps Grouchy -- had (i) still been alive and in power (ii) not gotten too carried away with his Imperial touches and (iii) hadn't bankrupted / collapsed the French people into war weariness.

All this would have taken would have been Napoleon more closely studying Charles XII's misadventures in Russia ... As an aside, that's got to be one of the weirdest unlearned lessons in history, that both Napoleon and Hitler followed in those disastrous footsteps, decimated by the Russian winter and destroyed at Poltava in 1709 ...

Anyway, as I said, it's just an idea :grad:

Best,

Oz

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Steph


Weren't Mamluks part of the Ottoman empire at the time?

Mamlukes first appeared on the historical scene as slave soldiers of the Ayyubids in Egypt in the 1170s CE. They overthrew the Ayyubids in 1250, and ruled until conquered by the Turks in 1516-17; yet they continued to rule under the Ottomans' until massacred by Mohammed Ali in 1811. It was them to whom Napoleon dictated his famous line after the Battle of the Pyramids: "4,000 years of history look down upon you." -- At least, I think "4,000" was the number he used ...

-Oz

 

[mrtn]

Rocoteh, I was just bugging you with that board game comment.

I've started some ASL scenarios (but never finished them, they took too much time ), but the board game I've played the most was Advanced Civilization. I could probably still depict large areas of the map, with city sites and population points.

 

[Steph]

Advanced Civilization is also a very good game, I loved to play it.

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Steph
Advanced Civilization is also a very good game, I loved to play it.

Ditto! -- And somehow I'm not surprised that it's a game more than a few of us enjoy.

 

[Rocoteh]

Steph,

With regard to the Steel Panthers serie, I really
remember Steel Panthers III had a large "chrome" factor.



Rocoteh

 

[Steph]

I don't konw, I didn't play much SPIII, I didn't like the scale. I prefer Steel Panthers World at War and Steel Panthers MBT.

Back to the topic, for icons I could convert Napoleon in Russia or Prelude to Waterloo. There would be plenty of icons then.

 

[Rocoteh]

Yes, you are right!!! Back to topic!!!

So far, although an interesting discussion no
consensus on the important issues.



Rocoteh