The Hall of Players

[ShiVvV]

Well, mixed results trying Dhoom's suggestion. I did get a new .ini file created that way but it did not contain nearly as many lines/options as the one I carried over and copied. Still, things seem to be running ok with BTS using either BUFFY or BUG/BULL.
But, I'd still really like to have a good .ini file to doublecheck what I have versus theirs if someone feels comfortable either posting theirs or sending me a copy via PM. Thanks fellahs.

 

[Pangaea]

A few observations about vassals for the dom limit raising naughtiness.

1. DEAD AI are listed in reverse order at the bottom of the scoreboard, according to how you selected them when setting up the game. In my case, Brennus was listed at the bottom of the dead ones, then de Gaulle. Because I selected them in alphabetical order.
2. The civ at the bottom of the scoreboard will be pushed off first when you create a new colony, if all 18 spots are taken.
3. The newly created colony will replace the one that got pushed off the scoreboard in the listings in Foreign Advisor. In my case Brennus was listed on top (after me). He was replaced with Isabella (Willem created her). Then Saladin replaced de Gaulle when he got pushed off the scoreboard.
4. New colonies seem to be linked to the host in some fashion. Several times now, Saladin has been created as the first colony when I'm Persia. Isabella got created for Willem, which is also geographically close.

 

[Pangaea]

Well, mixed results trying Dhoom's suggestion. I did get a new .ini file created that way but it did not contain nearly as many lines/options as the one I carried over and copied. Still, things seem to be running ok with BTS using either BUFFY or BUG/BULL.
But, I'd still really like to have a good .ini file to doublecheck what I have versus theirs if someone feels comfortable either posting theirs or sending me a copy via PM. Thanks fellahs.

IIRC, you may need to start a save first, for more lines to appear. Seem to recall the ini containing fairly few items before I did that.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

[*] New colonies seem to be linked to the host in some fashion. Several times now, Saladin has been created as the first colony when I'm Persia.
[/LIST]

Interesting, I'm playing as Darius and got Saladin as my first as well ...

 

[WastinTime]

Interesting, I'm playing as Darius and got Saladin as my first as well ...

yea, there are couple historical relationships defined somewhere...like I think the English produce an American colony, etc., but then I think it's random.

 

[Pangaea]

Not looking bright for a GE any time soon

Have just founded Sushi in 470AD. Much later than wanted. Had to do everything myself, including Guilds (1 turn). Don't have Kremlin yet, but will in 4 turns. Will just have to suffer some 3-pop cold whips until then.

I arranged it so the cities with best GE chances popped great people first, but it wasn't to be. Now I wonder what to do.

(The three GP columns is (1) current points, (2) points per turn and (3) turns until the GP pops)

Apart from two artists in Moscow (plus GA wonders), the others just run an engineer for now. I need 3000 for next GP. Ironworks won't be done for another 40 turns in Washington (1034 of 2100 ), and given the cost it's kind of hard to OF it out quick when there is no +100% resource. The GA lasts for another 15 turns.

If I wasn't lucky with the GE, I hoped to get more engineer spots from the IW, but it will be late now.

Any good ideas?

Didn't get a comment on this, but guess there isn't a good way to deal with it either, when one aren't lucky with a low-chance GE. I'm saving up money atm, while spreading Sushi, and am thinking to blow a sick amount of to purchase IW and WS. Then run 4 engineers for a 100% GE. This will still take a long while and the GA ends soon. I either have to get up factory for two more spots, or extend the GA with 3 GPs.

Need more GPs for the next GA though.

Suppose it's less bad to be unfortunate with the Mining-GE than the Sushi-GM, though.

Head is spinning with tasks. Spreading Sushi. Waging wars, getting units into position for 2, possibly 3, more wars. Building boats, settlers and workboats. Sending them to the right spots. Getting colonies. Thinking and planning for Great People and Golden Ages, and the damn GE. Probably more. No wonder the turns at this stage of the game can quite easily take an hour.

 

[Pangaea]

As a little aside, do you guys typically spread corps to the islands too, or just use them as resource gatherers?

Wasn't aware of this, but it looks like resources for corps are rounded UP, when seemingly everything else is rounded down. Sushi (on Huge Marathon) get you 1 per resource and you need 4 resources per . With for instance 77 I get +20 , which corresponds to 19.25.

 

[WastinTime]

Islands are the best places for Sushi since they can't cause border expansion problems much if at all.

 

[Pangaea]

Islands are the best places for Sushi since they can't cause border expansion problems much if at all.

Aye, that I get, but spreading it to them seems like nag. Can fill up two galleons I suppose and do it that way, or else I need a heap of them for chaining.

Really wish it was possible to run both slavery and caste. With cities growing so fast, during a GA, it feels like a waste with slavery, but of course I need it to spread Sushi fast.

Just wish that damn GE had popped earlier, and this could have turned into a pretty decent game, maybe breaking 1000AD

All the micro is making my head spin But it was nice to take all four Hammurabi cities in one turn to wipe him out.

103 cities now and 44% land. Going to need that colony trick....

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Aye, that I get, but spreading it to them seems like nag. Can fill up two galleons I suppose and do it that way, or else I need a heap of them for chaining.

Be lazy. Tech to Flight. Build some Airports. Airlift your units around the map.

Going to need that colony trick....

I'm still not quite sure how it works. Let's say that I'm on a Standard-sized map with 10 opponents. Is it even feasible for it to work?

If yes, what's the procedure for making it happen? For example, do I need to found Colonies until there are 17 players alive and then start killing off the original AIs, founding a new Colony each time that I kill off an original AI?

Does it help for a Colony to die?

 

[Pangaea]

Be lazy. Tech to Flight. Build some Airports. Airlift your units around the map.

That's a thought - it would certainly make it easier. Would be late spread and a tech detour tho.

Cecked out the final save of Seraiel's 1220AD game yesterday, for inspiration. However.... WOW!!

Over 200 cities, Sushi everywhere, most cities size 30+, +45 from Sushi. No clue how that is possible. I'm struggling to pay for 22 and haven't spread to any islands yet, with 'only' 100-ish cities. Bonkers.

I'm still not quite sure how it works. Let's say that I'm on a Standard-sized map with 10 opponents. Is it even feasible for it to work?

If yes, what's the procedure for making it happen? For example, do I need to found Colonies until there are 17 players alive and then start killing off the original AIs, founding a new Colony each time that I kill off an original AI?

Does it help for a Colony to die?

Not sure if it's bulletproof, but the idea is to replace original members with new ones. Perhaps it will work with 10 starting AIs too, not sure. I've created a few colonies in my game and the limit hasn't risen yet. Going to create a few more soon, when I'm done abusing the cities with slavery (and hooked up resources since otherwise they take an eternity). Up to 47% now, so I really need this to work.... Haven't dared to wage a couple of the wars I planned for yet.

Killing a new member won't help. Not sure if you can raise the limit by filling up the scoreboard when starting with 10 AIs. Worth a test I suppose if you have such a game going.

 

[Pangaea]

I'm still not quite sure how it works. Let's say that I'm on a Standard-sized map with 10 opponents. Is it even feasible for it to work?

If yes, what's the procedure for making it happen? For example, do I need to found Colonies until there are 17 players alive and then start killing off the original AIs, founding a new Colony each time that I kill off an original AI?

Does it help for a Colony to die?

Probably not feasible on a standard map tbh, as you need so many colonies, which requires many settlers, and the right kind of offshore land. I'd say it's possible, though.

Ran a test on a huge B&S (easier to pack colonies), starting with just 5 AIs. The starting domination limit here is 66%, so already very high. Filled the scoreboard with 12 new civs, but remained at 66%. So the key is to replace original members with new ones. After replacing 4 of the original 5, the limit was up to 74% -- same as if replacing 16 of 17 with a full starting roster.

Don't believe killing off colonies matter. The max possible appears to be 76%, but you can only get that high by leaving a colony alive and killing all original members. Pretty tough if you create them all yourself, but feasible if an AI creates at least one colony.

Thankfully I think this trick only has real value for time and high score games. Some value for space too, but more limited I'd say.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Yes it doesn't matter what size of map or how many AIs you start with (although obviously the HoF has rules about this you have to observe!).

The smaller the map the less you have to gain though and also less space for all these colonies so not only is it limited to certain types of victories in practical terms it's probably only Large and Huge Maps where it really makes a difference.

 

[Pangaea]

Yep, and many mapscripts will be out the window too as you can't create (enough) colonies. The trick sounds very powerful, but in practice its use is thankfully limited.

Must say I wonder how on earth you people are able to pay for Sushi. Am building a lot of wealth, but there's no way I'm going to bridge that gap - and this is in a golden age

edit
OMG, Sushi is murder. GA ends and I'm losing 2300 per turn, and only +350 with research off

 

[Pangaea]

Anybody home?

Kind of scratching my head here, pondering about how to pay for Sushi. What's the best way?

I'm hiring merchants, which is one heck of a job with so many cities growing per turn and the game's hard-on for spies.

Roughly breaking even at 10% research, and ~+300 per turn at 0% isn't much when I lose ~2500 at 100% Getting to Railroads and Mining suddenly looks slooooooooowwww. Worried I've messed up pretty badly by settling islands so aggressively.

On a more positive note, I've created some colonies and the domination limit is currently 60%, which was much needed as I'm a shade short of 51% now

 

[Seraiel]

I think nobody has found out the answer to the question you're asking Pangaea.

In GM-137, Kaitzilla wrote, that he stayed at 0% and he simply let his cities grow, and his empire recovered, that's a natural process. The cities grow on good tiles and work them, you can hire more Specialists and get research through them, and the more buildings are completed, the more cities can produce Wealth, which is the only possibility to pay for Sushi I know of.

I used Exec and Hermitary Failgold, to keep research at 100%, which required lots of planning, caused lots of whipping Anger and caused me to have much smaller cities than Kaitzilla had in his game, so my final research was a lot lower, as I didn't go down to 0% though and researched the whole time, finish-dates were comparable.

The scenario you're in, there's no way to simulate it, that wouldn't involve madness imo. The only thing I think you can try to do, is keep making good decisions. Don't overwhip Banks, you won't need them in the end, and they'll be useless. Settling all those islands is good up to a certain point, question is, if the game lasts long enough, so they can pay back. I took information on the last, and found out, that a mainland-city in an ordinary location creates a big deficit for about 20T, and 20T later at latest, it has payed back all the costs it caused, so produces pure benefit (numbers may be slightly smaller, but I think they're quite accurate) . I also didn't hire Merchants only, but only where they were efficient, so if a city had a University or even an Observatory, I prefered Merchants. You must not mess up your GP-production, so stay aware of which city produces a GP, and hire the right Specialists in them. Microing every city every turn is horrendous work, that's why I told you, and on Huge, it's worse than on Large. You're at the most time-intensive phase of the game (again) , just try to keep making good decisions, some informations I already gave to you. If you have any specific questions, I may be able to answer them too, but I think those three are the most important ones.

 

[Seraiel]

If you need precise information on how long that continent city needed to provide benefit, download my 1500 AD Small Normal Spacerace out of HoF, I left signs on the map so that players looking at that save should get that helpful information, as a reward .

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks Seraiel

I've kept GP production in mind and am running the 'right' type where most appropriate. A big issue is that other cities can't beat the GE city to 3000 however, so I need to hold back some others. Otherwise I tend to hire an engineer first, and then merchants. I've also hired merchants where scientists are perhaps better, because I need money. Haven't completed either Hermitage or Moai yet, but even if I got 10,000 for it (will be much less, at a guess), it would only allow research for 4 turns. Crazy stuff

What I'm doing now "feels wrong", but not sure. I have gone back to caste to be able to run specialists instead of growing onto unimproved tiles (even with 100+ workers they can't keep up everywhere). But I also have a GS, GM and GSpy for a GA, which would make economy and GP production faster. However, I figured I needed a GA later when needing to switch to slavery when Mining finally comes online. It feels a bit backwards, though, to run caste and specialists outside of a GA, and then move to slavery when in GA later. Given I need the 100% GE next, however, I won't get enough new GPs for a 4GP GA, and I should probably hold off on that GA until space parts.

A micro nightmare right now tbh, so many settlers and boats moving around, and trying to plan for a war on Pericles too, who has over half his cities offshore. I try to take my sweet time and make more good decisions than bad ones, but it's simply impossible to plan and play perfectly with so many moving parts. Could perhaps managed some galleon-galley chains here and there, but it's too much. Last turn still took two hours. The one before that a lot more due to GA coming to an end.

Haven't spread Sushi to islands yet (just one), but will try to do some of it when most planned settlers have got in place and the mainland has got Sushi. Some new/conquered cities don't have courthouses, though, so can't really give those Sushi yet.

Will take a look at the save you mentioned, and quite possibly ask more questions

Lately it seems like the fall has flattened out and we stay at roughly 10% for break even. Have a few thousand in the bank (keep hoping for inflation event), so the +~300 per turn at 0% pays for Sushi spreading.

Looks like pre-whipping executives work well btw. You just need to make sure max four are alive/in queue. Spreading will still be slower ofc due to increasingly longer distances (can only pre whip one exec per city), but it should still be faster than slow building them.

 

[Seraiel]

1. Not really crazy imho, just a proof that the scaling in civ is not perfect.

2. I ask myself, how you can have unimproved tiles, I can't remember one situation, where that problem occured in one of my games. The cities you conquer, have probably completely improved tiles, so you only need to improve your own cities. There are only two possibilities imho, either your cities are too large, or you need to improve your worker management (EDIT: or you need more Workers) .

3. Perfection is a curse, don't underlie it so heavily like I did, I played turns that took me up to 10h, the suffering I went through for this was great. There aren't many games on Huge maps, most players don't play them because they are a nightmare in some disciplines, just see that you get the #1, I'm sure you can do that.

4. Spreading Sushi to the islands is important, that was something I payed too little attention to in GM-137. I managed it in my next game, and it got a lot better. It may not be possible, that you'll be able to spread Corps to all of your cities.

What's most important now imo is, that you find a way towards reaching Mining, because that's the most important goal you currently have. The specialists are the way imo, because those give you research, so running Caste instead of Slavery is the right choice. Going back to Slavery in a GA, is also correct. No 4-GP-GA imo shows a weakness though, did you use too many GPs on bulbing? 4-GP-GA actually should be np, with the extra-GPs from Communism and Physics, and if you start a GA, you also get increased GP-production. Your cities will grow fast because of Sushi, you will be able to hire a lot more Specialists then you can atm. Starting a GA would solve all of your current problems, and you'd reach Mining earlier, I think it'd be right.

I just checked my last save from GM-137, as it has almost the same settings, next GP would have costed 6000 , so there are definitely more GPs possible.

 

[WastinTime]

Anybody home?

Kind of scratching my head here, pondering about how to pay for Sushi. What's the best way?

One way is to disconnect some seafood/rice or trade some away.
Question : how much does your gpt change when you take away one? Readers might find that an interesting number.

Also, be sure you know when another resource actually gives you another food. So, let's say 4 resources give you 1 food. Make sure that the last one connected gives you food, and you're not paying for 3 more resources that don't result in any benefit.

Did that make sense?