The herbal medicine event: how does it completely work and is it worth it?

[Killroyan]

In one of my last games I got the herbal medicine event really early (around 1500 bc or so). I thought great, bring on the health. I take the 2 for a little while. But for some reason it sticked. I mean literally till after 1 AD that I still had in all my cities. I had a great starting site, 4 more great cities but this event halted me completely as cities couldn't grow, production was lowered and science was down the drain. Whipped some cities to get rid of the but as I said even after 40 turns or so still all the cities were showing the "we cannot forget your cruel oppression", even in the ones I didn't whip.

So how long does this event last? Has it got something to do with being in slavery? This was on normal speed btw and monarch. My axe rush completely failed because of this and I really wanted Peter who was soooooo close (10 tiles away or so).

 

[Refar]

The form the Herbalism event (and the from most other events) is applied as Whip-Anger. Meaning 2 is the same as stacking the anger from 2 whips (so 10 truns of 2 , then another 10 with 1 ).
If you whip again during this time, you stack even more, which can lead to quite prolonged anger durations.
So when you "Whipped some cities to get rid of the " you actually made things worse.

(This is going to be a theread with quite high density of -smilies )

 

[brianb1974]

It gives you unhappiness equivalent to whipping twice. So if you are not whipping at all, the unhappiness lasts a limited time--2 whip cycles (time varies by game speed). But if you already have whip unhappiness or whip more after the event, the impact can be much longer-lasting than that.

Is it worth it? It's situational of course. If it comes up pre-slavery, almost always yes. +2 health for no drawback can be huge. Later in the game, the drawback is significant, so it isn't worth it, and you should just take the short-term happiness bonus for no testing.

 

[Ibian]

Buh? Temporary negative for a permanent positive?

Its always worth it.

 

[ese-aSH]

Buh? Temporary negative for a permanent positive?

Its always worth it.

not always ! sometimes this event comes very early : during a race to wonder or an axe rush.

but the +2 means you're almost expansive.

 

[Ibian]

Right. Its a free trait. Its worth even a wonder. Well, most wonders anyway but i have never had that kind of conflict.

 

[Killroyan]

Well as I said even the cities that I didn't whip stayed angry for over 40 turns or so and totally stalled everything that game. From science to production since my cities couldn't grow above 3 without having the angry faces. I thought a whipping cycle takes only 10 turns and only adds 1 angry face on normal speed? But I kept getting 2 angry faces in all city screens with the "we cannot forget your cruel oppression"

In my case this event came to soon as it screwed up my axe rush towards Peter. Even worse, Peter outproduced me and declared war on me. But his stack of doom met my stack of doom axes and his swordsmen, archers and spearmen did not survive that. After that he convinced his religious allie to also attack me and a war on two fronts with so many angry faces is not managable. So this event was a big cause for me loosing the game.

 

[Refar]

Well as I said even the cities that I didn't whip stayed angry for over 40 turns or so and totally stalled everything that game. From science to production since my cities couldn't grow above 3 without having the angry faces. I thought a whipping cycle takes only 10 turns and only adds 1 angry face on normal speed?

That's right, but consequtive wihps do stack...

If the did not go away even in cities that did not whip, then there either were other factors (Forge fire, Forest fire, etc. all add whip-) or you stumbled across a bug where for some reason the anger sticked...

 

[mercury529]

Well, the unhappiness sucks. If you put it in terms of production though, the +2 to health is 100 hammers per city across the empire (the cost of an aquaduct). Early hammers are more valuable than late hammers, but if you are not taking a huge hammer hit in the early game, I think the +2 health usually pays off for non-expansive civs.

 

[Killroyan]

Hopefully it is the last game I played (don't know for sure) because it feels like a bug (just installed the unofficial 3.13 patch). If it is the last game I played I can check the autosave maybe since I didn't save inbetween. I had no other events that could have added but I quit after I lost my second best city and my capital was under siege.

On a side note, how does the show up in the city screen? Directly added to the health of the difficulty level? I am not even sure if I got the extra

 

[Refar]

It should show as "+2 from Civilization" - same as expansive - iirc. However i do not have a game where i had the event to check right now.

 

[Killroyan]

Rofl, if that is the case I had all the which screwed up my game but not the bonus

 

[Gliese 581]

The last two times I did the extensive tests I got no health bonus (10% chance) ^^
That produced some more ..

But of course it's worth the risk. I agree that sometimes a wonder can be worth more though.

 

[Divaythsarmour]

Lately, I've been getting this event often really early in the game. At first I thought "what a great deal" as having fewer cities would seem to = less bad effect. But I noticed in my last game that the unhappiness in my capitol and second city was really putting the breaks on my growth at a very in-opportune time.

 

[GoodGame]

The gamble always seems to pay off for me.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Buh? Temporary negative for a permanent positive?

Its always worth it.

Health doesn't become a major problem until well into the medieval era, and sometimes the unhappiness (if you go for the "safe" gambit, it's 10 turns of 2 and another 10 turns of 1) really does screw up your early game.

 

[Ibian]

Each health represents a food. You dont want an extra 2 food in your cities?

 

[Killroyan]

Health does not represent food. I am sorry, that is totally off, especially early game where you normally get fresh water and 2 food resources. Then health is no point of interest at all. In the later stages it is really nice, I agree.

In my case this event screwed me over. Too much faces everywhere which completely stopped my axe rush and Peter outproduced me. Even though the event looks mighty fine I will next time keep in mind what my goals are. If I want to axe rush I will let the bonus health go by (which I didn't even get ) and just concentrate on production. Taking out Peter in this case would have given me several health resources for the same effect but I would have taken out an enemy and gained a couple of cities.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Each health represents a food.

That's only true if and when you're health limited. Late game, sure. Early game, only sometimes. But I've never seen this event come up after the first 150 turns, and immediate concerns must always take a certain priority.

So saying yes to this event is, as with most things in civ, situational.

If you've already been abusing the whip, then saying yes could cause all your cities to become completely useless for 10+ turns (and, potentially, starve) - which at that stage of the game is not worth any health bonus.

If you've got tons of health resources locally, then the value of the +2 is severely diminished - especially if you plan on grabbing victory before the industrial age.

If it means missing out on a crucial wonder (something integral to your strategy) or seriously delaying a vital rush, the wiser choice will often be to reject the event.

And don't forget, there's always that 10% chance you'll miss out on the health bonus. In certain situations, you could completely mess up your plans for nothing.

 

[Ibian]

More health means more specialists by way of biology farms at 20+ pop. Specialists beat cottages in direct comparison, the limiting factor to actually use them is mainly health. Also means you can delay health buildings, and build factories with less health issues, and grow bigger with sushi. Its a good deal throughout the entire game, but probably mostly lategame which is where it counts for me.