The Hitler Store! Hitler t-shirts! Also Che Guevara?

[Cheetah]

Source: Daily Mail

The owner of a men's clothes store in the city of Ahmedabad claims that his business partner's grandfather was so strict that he was nicknamed 'Hitler', and the guys thought this was a good name for their store.

Said and done, the store is ready, and they've apparently spent all their money on store, inventory, signs, business cards and whatnot.

From what I know, Indians - like most other Asians (read: people who don't grow up in a Western/Eurocentric world) - don't have much knowledge, feelings or opinions on Hitler and National Socialism. In that way, his story is credible enough IMO.

There is however a small, Jewish community in this city. The story is unclear on whether they protested before the store opened (the owners claim they had no complaints during the previous month when a huge sign read: 'Hitler opens soon!'), but a member of the local Synagogue visited the store after it had opened and suggested that they change their name and design. The owners claim that the name has been a good investment (sales are up I assume), but that they did not know much about Adolf Hitler and had no intentions of insulting anybody. They're apparently willing to change the name and design, but only if they can be compensated for it.

The existence of the local Jewish community renders the topic I wanted to discuss somewhat moot, but there are other examples as well:

Source: The Sun

VILE T-shirts featuring cartoons of Nazi monster Adolf Hitler have become the latest fashion must-have in Thailand.

Boutiques in the capital Bangkok have begun selling the garments showing the dictator as a Teletubby, panda or Ronald McDonald.

The tops, costing between £4 and £7.50, have sparked outrage with visitors.

But one vendor tried to justify selling the items — saying they are very popular with the local youth.

The shop owner named only as Hut said: “Some foreigners get upset [when they see the T-shirts on sale] they come to my shop and complain.

“It’s not that I like Hitler. But he looks funny and the shirts are very popular with young people.”

The Israeli ambassador to Thailand is among the T-shirts’ critics. Itzhak Shoham said: “You don’t want to see memories of the Nazi period trivialized in this manner.

“It hurts the feelings of every Jew and every civilized person.”

And the cartoon Hitler is not just limited to clothing. Tacky statues of the tyrant have also appeared in Bangkok’s streets.

Hitler’s evil Nazi regime is estimated to have exterminated six million Jews in the Holocaust.

Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre in Los Angeles, which monitors neo-Nazi activities worldwide, agrees that manifestations of Nazi chic in the region largely come down to sheer ignorance.

But he insisted locals should wise up about Hitler and his harmful ideology. He said: "If the Nazis had won the war, Hitler's racist ideology would have eventually targeted all races he deemed inferior, including Asians."

As I said earlier in the post:

Most Asians (read: people who don't grow up in a Western/Eurocentric world) don't have much knowledge, feelings or opinions on Hitler and National Socialism.

What are your thoughts and opinion on this?

Certainly nobody can tell people not to be upset with something they don't like, but are these complaints not a form of pushing western/eurocentric values on others? Is it necessary/right to make other people care about our "pet issues"?

Is it a problem that Asians don't care much about Hitler and Nazis? How many people in the West know or care what people in Asian countries find offensive? Would you care if someone made fun of a picture of the King of Thailand? How many people in the West know or care about what the Japanese did during the last World War? Would you be upset if you saw the Imperial Japanese flag in a Western store? Would most people care? Would they even know?

I also found the comment from the Israeli ambassador in the last story interesting: "It hurts the feelings of every Jew and every civilized person." -- If you don't know about Hitler, you're not civilised apparently...

And while Hitler was exceptionally bad, how many even moves an eyelid when they see this mass murderer idolised?

Who's civilised here?

 

[Phrossack]

Is this the same guy who opened up a Hitler-themed restaurant in India a while back?

 

[Borachio]

And while Hitler was exceptionally bad, how many even moves an eyelid when they see this mass murderer idolised?

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

I don't remember Che Guevara, certainly a terrorist and responsible for numerous deaths, instigating death camps.

And right or wrong, Che was a symbol of the struggle for freedom. Was Hitler? Before or after '45. Hmm.

Still, it's difficult to sort out what I think on this one.

 

[Ajidica]

Not to be rude, but are the two best sources you could find for this the Daily Heil and its slightly crazier younger brother?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Most Asians (read: people who don't grow up in a Western/Eurocentric world) don't have much knowledge, feelings or opinions on Hitler and National Socialism.

And that is why everyone should at least have an inkling of world history during the past century.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Would you be upset if you saw the Imperial Japanese flag in a Western store? Would most people care? Would they even know?

I've seen it displayed on a US military base during an air show before. Here's one such example:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kansasexplorer3128/169304794/

Were they "uncivilized" to do so? Or is is simply part of history?

And I have to admit that I find it hilarious how Glenn Beck and others make such a big deal out of wearing Che Guevara T-shirts.


Link to video.

No wonder so many people do so.

 

[Patroklos]

How many people in the West know or care about what the Japanese did during the last World War? Would you be upset if you saw the Imperial Japanese flag in a Western store? Would most people care? Would they even know?

The Japanese still use that flag as their naval ensign (and another version for the JSDF), so when I see it I think ally and the US certainly has reasons to be historically averse to it as well.

I've seen it displayed on a US military base during an air show before. Here's one such example:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kansasexplorer3128/169304794/

Were they "uncivilized" to do so? Or is is simply part of history?

It would be flown any time there is a joint presence with the Japanese Navy or in the event of rendering honors.

In any case, Asians simply have a different perspective on it. Removed from any actual first hand account of Nazis and their crimes for the most part it is simply a story for them. Do they understand it at on an intellectual level if they bother to think about it? I am sure they do. Is it off limits to them as I am sure similar Japanese stuff is?? Not to the same extent, it just isn't as relevant to them at the emotional level.

And of course to see an extreme of this like so many other things I give you Japan.

Its just a way to be edgy and punk to them, co-opting something bad to stick it to the man.

 

[Borachio]

Spoiler :

Link to video.

No wonder so many people do so.

McCarthyism lite. Sooo lite.

 

[gangleri2001]

And that is why everyone should at least have an inkling of world history during the past century.

Ok! What do you know about 20th century India, China, Japan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Yemen, etc.?

 

[Cheetah]

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

I don't remember Che Guevara, certainly a terrorist and responsible for numerous deaths, instigating death camps.

I dunno. You have to have a death camp to be a mass murderer? I thought it was enough to kill a whole bunch of people. And Che certainly helped Castro round up and dispose of difficult individuals after the Cuban revolution...

And right or wrong, Che was a symbol of the struggle for freedom. Was Hitler? Before or after '45. Hmm.

Before '45 at least, he was a symbol for a free and strong Germany, a symbol of pride and prosperity for the German people. He was also seen be many in the West as a protection against communism.

When Berlin lay in ruins, Auswitch had been freed and Stalin ruled half of Europe, there wasn't much left of course...

Not to be rude, but are the two best sources you could find for this the Daily Heil and its slightly crazier younger brother?

I know!

The first time I heard about the Indian store was actually through the Norwegian version of the BBC, which usually are quite reliable. Seems that their only source was the Daily Mail as well however.

Still, the stories were only needed to illustrate the point. And the pictures on the last story were apparently from CNNGo.

And that is why everyone should at least have an inkling of world history during the past century.

How so? And what history? From who's point of view?

The Japanese still use that flag as their naval ensign (and another version for the JSDF), so when I see it I think ally and the US certainly has reasons to be historically averse to it as well.

I know. It's still the military flag of Japan. I could probably have expanded a bit on it, but it was only intended as an example anyhow.

All power to the Japanese if they wish to continue to use that flag, but that doesn't change the fact that the flag carry very strong and negative connotations many places in Asia. That the Japanese still use the flag, and haven't apologized for the war crimes they committed is certainly their choice, but it's not a very popular choice - even among some Japanese themselves.

Except for allied prisoners of war, Westerners never really experienced the brutality the Japanese Empire was capable of, and this has continued as most western WW2-era movies and stories focus on the European theatre, and very few focus on the plights of Asian civilians. I wouldn't expect Americans to have much of a problem with that flag at all, but try to show it in China or Korea these days...

 

[Borachio]

History! There's just so much of it. And they keep on making more. I can't keep up.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I doubt you can find a single symbol or icon that isn't roundly hated by many. Just look at how many people start spitting at their screens merely thinking about this one:

 

[Cheetah]

In any case, Asians simply have a different perspective on it. Removed from any actual first hand account of Nazis and their crimes for the most part it is simply a story for them. Do they understand it at on an intellectual level if they bother to think about it? I am sure they do. Is it off limits to them as I am sure similar Japanese stuff is?? Not to the same extent, it just isn't as relevant to them at the emotional level.

[...]

Its just a way to be edgy and punk to them, co-opting something bad to stick it to the man.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

And then I take it that you personally don't mind too much that a store may be named 'Hitler' or that some Thai t-shirt vendors sell Hitler-hoodies?

I doubt you can find a single symbol or icon that isn't roundly hated by many.

Yes, yes.

But are you okay with it? Or do you just accept it as a fact of life?

Would you say that it is good that there is still enough diversity among humans that these things are possible, or would you rather see everyone conforming to some set rules of conduct?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

India

Vallabhbhai Patel's crucial role in integrating the Princely States into India. And a few other things.

China,

Working on that. Just need to find the right book. Academic, but not too long.

Japan,

Nothing new aside from what everyone already knows.

Ethiopia,

Just the fact that they were conquered by Italy.

Kenya, Yemen, etc.?

Might be good topics for a reading.

 

[Patroklos]

Except for allied prisoners of war, Westerners never really experienced the brutality the Japanese Empire was capable of, and this has continued as most western WW2-era movies and stories focus on the European theatre, and very few focus on the plights of Asian civilians. I wouldn't expect Americans to have much of a problem with that flag at all, but try to show it in China or Korea these days...

I don't think that's exactly true, but civilian populations certainly bore the brunt of Japanese brutality. That being said, I could level the same observation about the US, UK, Canada, and certain others concerning the Nazis, but I think those nations have a healthy understanding of Nazi brutality.

Anyways, I was just pointing out that peoples can and do get over aversions to symbols based on more modern circumstances. And while certain Asian cultures might not be overly sensitive to Nazism due to their perspective, they can be just as averse to other symbols (Japanese) in near analogous situations.

And then I take it that you personally don't mind too much that a store may be named 'Hitler' or that some Thai t-shirt vendors sell Hitler-hoodies?

Given that I know his intention is not to offend and divorced form historic relevance for the most part, not at all. If he was doing that in Warsaw, I might find it harder to believe a claim of ignorance but would still think it highly inappropriate given the circumstances even if the claim were true.

I still think he should be able to have the store remain open if he feels so inclined though.

 

[Traitorfish]

And while Hitler was exceptionally bad, how many even moves an eyelid when they see this mass murderer idolised?

Who's civilised here?

Bit more relevant, don't you think?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

How so?

What do want me to explain here?

And what history?

Whatever is needed so someone doesn't miss important events on a continent such as the Holocaust.

From who's point of view?

One would hope an objective point of view. If that is not possible, then perhaps either a consensus or all of the most significant views.

 

[holy king]

heck, they sell hitler wine in italy...

http://www.inquisitr.com/301616/fuh...cs-of-hitler-other-dictators-on-wine-bottles/


it's just the free market, nothing to see here.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Would you say that it is good that there is still enough diversity among humans that these things are possible, or would you rather see everyone conforming to some set rules of conduct?

Even better, shouldn't we develop pre-crime technology so they can be identified long before they even have the opportunity to offend anybody?

 

[Cheetah]

I don't think that's exactly true, but civilian populations certainly bore the brunt of Japanese brutality. That being said, I could level the same observation about the US, UK, Canada, and certain others concerning the Nazis, but I think those nations have a healthy understanding of Nazi brutality.

Yeah, but then again, western people have actually grown up with a culture that lets the know how terrible the Nazis actually were.

Anyways, I was just pointing out that peoples can and do get over aversions to symbols based on more modern circumstances. And while certain Asian cultures might not be overly sensitive to Nazism due to their perspective, they can be just as averse to other symbols (Japanese) in near analogous situations.

Given that I know his intention is not to offend and divorced form historic relevance for the most part, not at all. If he was doing that in Warsaw, I might find it harder to believe a claim of ignorance but would still think it highly inappropriate given the circumstances even if the claim were true.

I still think he should be able to have the store remain open if he feels so inclined though.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too.

I actually have a friend in Japan who did dress up in what looks like an SS uniform once. I thought it was really strange, but mostly just funny after a while. On the armband there was no sun cross however, but a Star of David and something akin to "Make love, not war".

I even have a pic of him on my phone, and once I accidentally managed to show it to a German girl. She wasn't especially impressed...

And while Hitler was exceptionally bad, how many even moves an eyelid when they see this mass murderer idolised?

Who's civilised here?

Bit more relevant, don't you think?

I'm not sure. Not unless I've become a Beck fanboy recently without knowing it.

Care to help me out?