The Huns for BtS

Very nice. The overlap doesn't look too bad.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I guess I'll reduce the stables size.

BTW: Don't miss the screenshots of Bakuels units in post 1.
 
He also made me some Semetic units and didn't post them either. So maybe he is doing these as special favors? :confused:

I have a question though; did he also make a Knight/Heavy Cavalry (as he usually calls them) because I'd like the set (I intend on making a module for my mod) if he did, otherwise I could just download this thing but honestly I'd just be taking the units from it. If it isn't too much trouble could you post his unit pack?
 
The Capo said:
I have a question though; did he also make a Knight/Heavy Cavalry (as he usually calls them) because I'd like the set (I intend on making a module for my mod) if he did, otherwise I could just download this thing but honestly I'd just be taking the units from it. If it isn't too much trouble could you post his unit pack?
Click to expand...

I second this, esp. since you said you only used most of them :)
 
Bakuel sent me those units directly via pm. I guess because I requested them directly. I provided most of the pictures he used and told him to make them altaic looking and having a conehead. The latter seems to be some kind of hun fashion, so I thought it might be a cool unique feature. Bakuel then did a perfect job and sent me those units directly. Actually I like it that ways. I am under less pressure with updating the mod this ways. Now that it is updated, I am looking forward that he creates his own thread for them, so people can discuss. Till that happens - if he plans to do so at all - I updated the first post with a separate package containing all his units - you'll find it at the very bottom. The package indeed contains a heavy cavalry (a mounted spearman) and an alternative horse archer. Only the Tarkan, the settler, the warrior and the worker are not part of that package as they haven't be made by Bakuel (most of them aren't even made especially for this mod, but have been reused). I requested a hun worker from Bakuel and a slight change of the maceman / heavy footknight (I'd like to have him fighting with a mace like the default maceman of vanilla civ4 does). He confirmed the former, but I didn't got an answer about the latter. I'll post here if I get an answer / the finished units.

So, what do you guys think? Is the UU too late? I liked Bakuels horse archer very much, so I wanted to use it. On the other side, the Tarkan as is now, fits very much to Ekmeks Attila and as it sticks out a bit under the other units, I found it very suitable as unique unit art. Still, the question is whether we could consider it a unique knight as the Huns disappeared around the year 500. On the other side, according to Wikipedia the middleages begun around 500, so it might be an early knight. Also, some of the roman units were not that different from medieval units (mounted, fighting with sword...), so I thought the era a unit belongs to, should maybe not be measured globally, but for each civilization separately. In other words the Huns then would have reached the technology knight earlier then others. Another problem are the units properties. I let it start with shock, which gives a bonus against melee units. On the other side, there are melee units, that are usually good against mounted units (spearman I think). So that feature of the Tarkan would take away this bonus of the melee units, which makes it a pretty strong unit I guess. Opinions?
 
cool3a2 said:
Bakuel sent me those units directly via pm. I guess because I requested them directly. I provided most of the pictures he used and told him to make them altaic looking and having a conehead. The latter seems to be some kind of hun fashion, so I thought it might be a cool unique feature. Bakuel then did a perfect job and sent me those units directly. Actually I like it that ways. I am under less pressure with updating the mod this ways. Now that it is updated, I am looking forward that he creates his own thread for them, so people can discuss. Till that happens - if he plans to do so at all - I updated the first post with a separate package containing all his units - you'll find it at the very bottom. The package indeed contains a heavy cavalry (a mounted spearman) and an alternative horse archer. Only the Tarkan, the settler, the warrior and the worker are not part of that package as they haven't be made by Bakuel (most of them aren't even made especially for this mod, but have been reused). I requested a hun worker from Bakuel and a slight change of the maceman / heavy footknight (I'd like to have him fighting with a mace like the default maceman of vanilla civ4 does). He confirmed the former, but I didn't got an answer about the latter. I'll post here if I get an answer / the finished units.

So, what do you guys think? Is the UU too late? I liked Bakuels horse archer very much, so I wanted to use it. On the other side, the Tarkan as is now, fits very much to Ekmeks Attila and as it sticks out a bit under the other units, I found it very suitable as unique unit art. Still, the question is whether we could consider it a unique knight as the Huns disappeared around the year 500. On the other side, according to Wikipedia the middleages begun around 500, so it might be an early knight. Also, some of the roman units were not that different from medieval units (mounted, fighting with sword...), so I thought the era a unit belongs to, should maybe not be measured globally, but for each civilization separately. In other words the Huns then would have reached the technology knight earlier then others. Another problem are the units properties. I let it start with shock, which gives a bonus against melee units. On the other side, there are melee units, that are usually good against mounted units (spearman I think). So that feature of the Tarkan would take away this bonus of the melee units, which makes it a pretty strong unit I guess. Opinions?
Click to expand...

I'd use a Horse Archer replacement for the UU.
 
I'm going to use it as a war elephant replacement (no ivory though) just to give the huns more horse units.
Click to expand...
Yeah... For my mod I dislike this idea, because it would bring the game out of balance, I think. The reason for this is, that on one side the Huns get independent from ivory, but on the other side get more sticked on horses. At the first sight, this may sound like one equals the other, but I guess this is highly dependent on the specific game (on which ressources are available, to be exact). That's why I have scruples to make the UU this ways...
 
cool3a2 said:
I updated the first post with a separate package containing all his units - you'll find it at the very bottom. The package indeed contains a heavy cavalry (a mounted spearman) and an alternative horse archer.
Click to expand...

Thanks :D

So, what do you guys think? Is the UU too late? I liked Bakuels horse archer very much, so I wanted to use it. On the other side, the Tarkan as is now, fits very much to Ekmeks Attila and as it sticks out a bit under the other units, I found it very suitable as unique unit art. Still, the question is whether we could consider it a unique knight as the Huns disappeared around the year 500. On the other side, according to Wikipedia the middleages begun around 500, so it might be an early knight. Also, some of the roman units were not that different from medieval units (mounted, fighting with sword...), so I thought the era a unit belongs to, should maybe not be measured globally, but for each civilization separately. In other words the Huns then would have reached the technology knight earlier then others. Another problem are the units properties. I let it start with shock, which gives a bonus against melee units. On the other side, there are melee units, that are usually good against mounted units (spearman I think). So that feature of the Tarkan would take away this bonus of the melee units, which makes it a pretty strong unit I guess. Opinions?
Click to expand...

I'd go with a horse archer, it fits the overall timeframe better and to me there should be an overall timeframe as to when units appear, not a per civ one.

Taking the per civ timeframe to an extreme (arguing that huns had knights before anyone else because they disappeared by the time the knights were around goes in that direction, just not to the same extent). How would you argue about units like the rifleman or cavalry then, since the knight appeared earlier, do these too ? Is the Hun cavalry then the horse archer too, as they only had one horse unit ?

These clearly does not work when being taken to extremes and a knight in civ to me is heavily armored, something they really were not yet in the 500s.
 
Although if you look at what a Tarkan actually is, its more of a Knight than anything else. Its a title of nobility, and a Knight is (in essence at least) just that.

And I agree about the ivory-dependence issue.
 
Glad to see that some kind of discussion has started. I am also happy that someone supports me in the ivory / horse point, because I started thinking that I may have estimated its importance incorrectly.

About the horse archer vs knight problem - I am completely undecided. The Cape had a good point about the background of the Tarkan. On the other side, the idea making it a knight was more 'emotional'. I like the art I am using for it and as I already replaced a similar unit in the magyar mod, I'd be happy if I could keep it somehow. Also, I like Bakuels horse archer, too, but his heavy cavalry is in some ways inaccurate for a knight (it looks very good, the problem is just, that it is a mounted spearman - not a knight), so doing it this ways was the logical consequence. Still, I see the problem connected woth the technology / era, although I think that mamba get me a bit wrong. I didn't want to say anything about gunpowder units. The real huns had no units that were somehow similar to that - not even distantly. We don't know what would have happened. Only because they had knight earlier than others (assuming the Tarkan could be considered a knight), that does not mean that they would have had gunpowder units earlier than others. Also, I didn't want to say, that Huns were the first civ having knights. I even wanted to say that even roman units show similarities to knights. Still, I'd prefer it if the UU would be a horse archer, I just have scruples for the mentioned reasons... So, all in all I am a bit confused now what to do :confused:
 
Just one point though. "Knights" are not as medieval as you would think. The Roman Equitae was technically a Knight. In fact the entire Knightly concept derives from the Roman Equitae.
 
Awesome news, hun mod is updated too :D
Only one question: You sure the UU should be a knight replacement for the huns?
I always thought that a horse archer replacement would suit them the best.
It can be still Tarkan in my opinion, just knight uu is too late for this civ...


EDIT: My bad, I totally missed the last page of posts :eek:, sry for that.

So there is a whole discussion on this already:
I would still use a horse archer UU for huns, regardless that Tarkans could be knights too...
In an ideal game of civ 4 u don't have knights before 1000 AD, and it would be strange for me to have the huns special unit after 500. I prefer to have my civs UU in the time when they were using them mostly. Many things cannot be historically accurate in a game like civ 4, but at least this should be...

Cool, if u like the art so much, why don't you use them as knights (not UU, just art replacement), and the special unit would be a horse archer UU? Maybe as a Tarkan, maybe else, there are many people here to decide :)
 
I'll make the uu a horse archer again, then. The reason why I didn't use the Tarkans current art as art for the knight is, that it uses a bow as weapon, not a sword. But I might try another bone transplantation to make it fight like a knight. There is no guarantee that this will work. If not, I'll decide between its bow version and Bakuels heavy cavalry (which uses a spear).

Bakuel send me a maceman-version of his heavy footman unit which will replace the old version in the next version. I'll also make that stable a bit smaller and make an installer for the mod. That all will be v2.1 of this mod.
 
The Tarkan is a horse archer uu again that uses Bakuels horse archer model. I also added Bakuels new maceman and did the bone transplantation with the former Tarkan art. There is still a problem with the feet of the horse and the shield, but I am optimistic that I'll get it to work. Take a look for the new unit art. Finally, I tweaked the stable.
 
If the Tarkan uses bow why couldn't it be a horse archer? Or u just did that?
Hm, now I'm not sure of the existing units :)

So there is Bakuel's hun horse archer and heavy cavalry (with spear)
There is an armoured Tarkan with bow (and this is the art which u like so much).
And now Bakuel's horse archer = Tarkan UU
The former Tarkan (with sword) = knight replacement

If i'm correct on these, then my first question stands. It may be an alternative (not necessary better, just an alternative)
to use Tarkan with bow as horse archer UU, and Bakuel's heavy cavalry as knight.
 
If I think through this again, there is only one real question:
U have to decide whether Bakuel's horse archer or heavy cavalry will drop out, and that's the heavy part. We have a problem with having too much quality units :D
 
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