The Immortal Aztec – Walkthrough

[BornSlippy]

This report is bloody amazing! So detail-rich, well illustrated and explained... God. I don't care what you do in the game as long as you keep on reporting!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Same here, it's amazing to watch deity players playing on immortal, smacking around with war, and running up a tech lead. I'm envious and plan to attain such capabilities myself eventually .

 

[JBossch]

Yeah, great game. Go for whatever victory you like. Just one question (sorry no time to look at save): How are you running six priests in Madrid? Two temples and shrines? Do shrines allow extra priests? Do you have AW there?

 

[DMOC]

Perhaps go for a space race victory? I'd like to know what the optimal tech path is in the late game. Nice game, by the way.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah, great game. Go for whatever victory you like. Just one question (sorry no time to look at save): How are you running six priests in Madrid? Two temples and shrines? Do shrines allow extra priests? Do you have AW there?

IIRC shrines do allow priests.

 

[futurehermit]

shrines allow 3 priests each

 

[Johnpecan]

I would have settled Texcoco write on the furs to work the silver and fish.

 

[Winth]

This just CALLS or Angkor Wat.

 

[UncleJJ]

This game gets even more interesting . Wiping out Izzy was a good move. The Taj Mahal is going to be a nice boost if you get it.

Apostolic Palace: this is Jewish and will be for the rest of the game, so you should probably assume that eventually that will be your state religion (at least most of the time). That will really seal the relationship between you and Darius and Freddy as both of them are Jewish now. You will likely become the Resident (as a Full member) and be able to choose what in voted on (a big advantage). The UoS beakers will simply apply to whatever is your state religion, so stop building Buddhist temples etc, at least until you have Jewish ones built. The Jewish shrine in Barcelona will become lucrative but also has espionage advantages so make that a very high priority.

Jails: These will give your espionage game a huge lift. You need to get them installed in just about every city ASAP. Looking at the F1 screen you have 14 cities and are producing 28 EPs per turn. If you manage to whip jails in all those, and run Nationhood, the passive output will rise to about 150 EPs. Also a spy will go from his present 4 beakers + 4 EPs to 4 beakers and 7 EPs and become the best value specialist in some cities (e.g. Texcoco) that can't run a lot and don't have good multipliers.

Universities and Oxford, you want those too Obviously there are far too many things going on at present for you to be able to do all of them. It is probably better to do some well than try to do all of them. I'll be interested in your reasoning even though there is no obviously best way to proceed.

So what are your plans for future expansion? Will you use Drafting and rifles? Or do you have enough territory to settle for Space? Obviously if you adopt Judaism and take control of the AP you can either use that against the other two who are both Confusian. Unfortunately you are piggy-in-the-middle and the other two AP members will be tracking across your territory to get to Hatty or Zara. Or you might decide to take out one of the AP members, perhaps switch their religion using espionage and attack. You have lots of possibilities in a very interesting situation.

A final thought, be sure to build a couple of monasteries for the Hindu and Christian religions. You never know when you might want to make a few more missionaries (especially if you do decide to go with a late game Cultural win using corporations which is still very viable at present).

 

[Roxlimn]

Jewish Aztecs. Hehehe. I'm wondering what the appropriate headgear might be.

 

[futurehermit]

Any non-military victory with Monty just seems...wrong to me Drafted, theocratic rifles and the two-stack plan just seems like the way to go to me. Not to mention that a militaristic victory gives you the option of leveraging the UB all game long. whip/draft jewish, theocratic military units and conquer the world. Seems fitting for Monty imo. Plus warfare at immortal is always fun to watch.

 

[Bustard Gravy]

This is just to add to the chorus of approval. I'm your average lurkaholic, but I didn't feel I could let this fascinating account drift by without cheering. So: hurray.

 

[Norvin_Green]

bravo, thanks for all the detail behind what you are doing.

 

[silverbullet]

Great thread Rusten.
I do have one question - I know you are a big advocate of currency before CoL - why did you decide to delay it here? Did you want to start whipping jaguars earlier? Is this also why you delayed construction until after CoL?
I am just wandering whether early currency would have brought you the same tech status earlier (having all 3 techs: CoL+currency+construction), compared to the way you took here.
Would you have done the same thing on Deity, where the AI tend to have more cash and GPT for trades, potentially making currency more attractive?

 

[Rusten]

Great thread Rusten.
I do have one question - I know you are a big advocate of currency before CoL - why did you decide to delay it here? Did you want to start whipping jaguars earlier? Is this also why you delayed construction until after CoL?

Reason I went for CoL early was that the sacrificial altar costs 30 hammers less which makes it easy to build in addition to being one of the absolute top UBs in the game. I would've loved to have currency too, but as this is normal speed I had to start getting my catapults out early as they need some time to get to Spanish territory. Another reason to go for CoL before currency was that I got that very good deal for alphabet (IW+polytheism) speeding up CoL. With a different civilization I probably would've teched currency before construction instead of CoL, but that too would depend on circumstances.

I am just wandering whether early currency would have brought you the same tech status earlier (having all 3 techs: CoL+currency+construction), compared to the way you took here.

My research probably would've been faster with currency rather than CoL, but as I used my UB to whip I had more happiness in my cities. It also let me whip an army much faster. With a different civilization currency might be better.

Would you have done the same thing on Deity, where the AI tend to have more cash and GPT for trades, potentially making currency more attractive?

I would do the same with the Aztec, but with any other civilization - no. On deity the AI is probably going to tech currency really early, so you don't have to do it yourself to enable selling of resources/techs and begging for gold. Also, I would probably face longbowmen and catapults on deity, so I'd need/want horse archers too.

 

[Rusten]

This game gets even more interesting . Wiping out Izzy was a good move. The Taj Mahal is going to be a nice boost if you get it.

Apostolic Palace: this is Jewish and will be for the rest of the game, so you should probably assume that eventually that will be your state religion (at least most of the time). That will really seal the relationship between you and Darius and Freddy as both of them are Jewish now. You will likely become the Resident (as a Full member) and be able to choose what in voted on (a big advantage). The UoS beakers will simply apply to whatever is your state religion, so stop building Buddhist temples etc, at least until you have Jewish ones built. The Jewish shrine in Barcelona will become lucrative but also has espionage advantages so make that a very high priority.

Yea, a triple alliance with Darius and Fred is a good move. You're also very right about the espionage benefit, I should try to steal some expensive techs later on.

Jails: These will give your espionage game a huge lift. You need to get them installed in just about every city ASAP. Looking at the F1 screen you have 14 cities and are producing 28 EPs per turn. If you manage to whip jails in all those, and run Nationhood, the passive output will rise to about 150 EPs. Also a spy will go from his present 4 beakers + 4 EPs to 4 beakers and 7 EPs and become the best value specialist in some cities (e.g. Texcoco) that can't run a lot and don't have good multipliers.

Yea, planning to get those (unlocked them the turn I ended my set). Jails will also lower WW and with Fascism remove it completely.

Universities and Oxford, you want those too Obviously there are far too many things going on at present for you to be able to do all of them. It is probably better to do some well than try to do all of them. I'll be interested in your reasoning even though there is no obviously best way to proceed.

Ditto. If I decide to aim for a military victory then I won't bother getting universities. I haven't decided where to take the game yet, but I'll make some decisions soon enough.

So what are your plans for future expansion? Will you use Drafting and rifles? Or do you have enough territory to settle for Space? Obviously if you adopt Judaism and take control of the AP you can either use that against the other two who are both Confusian. Unfortunately you are piggy-in-the-middle and the other two AP members will be tracking across your territory to get to Hatty or Zara. Or you might decide to take out one of the AP members, perhaps switch their religion using espionage and attack. You have lots of possibilities in a very interesting situation.

Still undecided.

A final thought, be sure to build a couple of monasteries for the Hindu and Christian religions. You never know when you might want to make a few more missionaries (especially if you do decide to go with a late game Cultural win using corporations which is still very viable at present).

Good idea. I can still get the missionaries by switching to OR though, and with spiritual that's not a big thing, but a couple won't hurt.

 

[silverbullet]

On deity the AI is probably going to tech currency really early, so you don't have to do it yourself to enable selling of resources/techs and begging for gold. Also, I would probably face longbowmen on deity, so I'd need/want horse archers too.

Can you explain how horse archers would help? What's wrong with Jaguars once catapults soften the defenders? Are first strikes such a big issue with softened longbowmen?

Another question, in the war with Spain, did you bother bombarding the city defence, or did you use the catapults only to attack? I think you mentioned that you even attacked accross the river in the first city battle, so obviously no bombarding there, but what about the next cities? I have never ran a high level war at that time, but my feeling is that bombardment is a waste of time. The enemy will whip and reinforce more defenders from nearby cities, leading to a tougher battle overall.

 

[Rusten]

Can you explain how horse archers would help? What's wrong with Jaguars once catapults soften the defenders? Are first strikes such a big issue with softened longbowmen?

Typo by me, sorry, I'll go edit it. What I meant to say was longbowmen and catapults. The flanking attack is very useful. Chances are you'll be facing a counter-attack (possibly even on your cities) as the AI will also have a large army at the time (deity), so having units with 2 movement that can own their siege is very useful.

Another question, in the war with Spain, did you bother bombarding the city defence, or did you use the catapults only to attack? I think you mentioned that you even attacked accross the river in the first city battle, so obviously no bombarding there, but what about the next cities? I have never ran a high level war at that time, but my feeling is that bombardment is a waste of time. The enemy will whip and reinforce more defenders from nearby cities, leading to a tougher battle overall.

First city I suicided 2 catapults without bombarding, I bombarded every other city though. I think bombarding is the better move because you won't lose any units this way. If you have enough catapults then you only lose a couple of turns. Not losing any units means you won't have to remake units so you don't really lose that much time. While the AI will have time to get more defenders there it also means you won't lose any units at all. The only time I lost jags were to unlucky rolls, I usually had 90% or more chance of success. After bombarding my CR catapults also had > 50% chance of withdrawing (the second and 3rd much more) which means that you can use the low-hp catapults to bombard the next city instead of waiting for them to heal. Once I got my GGmedic I could even heal them in 1-2 turns. Waiting for bombardment means I'll get more experienced troops (CR3) as they don't die all the time and as I had a woodsman3 jag after taking the 1st city healing was easy. Having a healer in my SoD also meant that I could use the turns of bombarding to heal my wounded troops, so it's a nice match, once you start taking the 3rd and 4th city bombarding city defense won't waste turns with proper logistics.

 

[Shurdus]

Good game Rusten! A lot of great advice, and now I finally somewhat understand why my wars always progress so poorly, so karma for that!

What I am wondering though, IIRC you were a big workshop and contra-cottage believer. I opened up your saved game and noticed quite a few cottages and next to no workshops. Now I am kinda confused.

Workshops obviously allow for more flexibility, since you can choose to build wealth or science. Cottages do no such thing, except they provide commerce. Is it because you can whip your population silly that you chose not to spend worker-turns on the workshops?

One final note before I go, I would like to see a domination win as I am very much at loss on how to wage war effectively, so I could use all the help I can get. Any other game would be cool too though as I can see you getting tired of warring all the time as you must have done it countless times.

Keep up the good work! You are indeed !

 

[Rusten]

Good game Rusten! A lot of great advice, and now I finally somewhat understand why my wars always progress so poorly, so karma for that!

What I am wondering though, IIRC you were a big workshop and contra-cottage believer. I opened up your saved game and noticed quite a few cottages and next to no workshops. Now I am kinda confused.

I'm not a fan of cottages, but that doesn't mean I make none. They are the better choice sometimes so I'd never say not making cottages is a better strategy. There are many games where you can skip them completely but it depends. Reason you don't see many workshops is that it's too early, but I think you remember a little wrong, I'm not a huge workshop fan. You're probably mistaking it with my love for watermills and windmills, which really goes deep. I only cottaged 3 flood plains and 4(?) tiles in my capital, that's not that many, the others were worked by Izzy. I don't have anything against cottages themselves, I just get a little annoyed at the senseless cottage spamming that many people do--everything in moderation.

Workshops obviously allow for more flexibility, since you can choose to build wealth or science. Cottages do no such thing, except they provide commerce. Is it because you can whip your population silly that you chose not to spend worker-turns on the workshops?

Pre-industrial times farms are the best way to produce (especially with this UB) and yes, I love whipping my population silly.

One final note before I go, I would like to see a domination win as I am very much at loss on how to wage war effectively, so I could use all the help I can get. Any other game would be cool too though as I can see you getting tired of warring all the time as you must have done it countless times.

Noted, but I don't know how educational it would be (as with most victories at this point) as I'm quite huge already.