The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

[Yeekim]

Very well established start
I am glad to see that my plans were similar - perhaps I am not that hopeless

As for our further steps - economy first, then elephants and catapults! Has the Great Lighthouse been built? We already have Sailing and Stone; this wonder lasts relatively long and is, imho, more useful than Colossus. Masonry is also cheap enough to detour to.

Perhaps we could chop it in our crab-city? Or is it just my wishful thinking?

 

[Bhruic]

Er, we don't actually have a crab-city yet. Grabbing it would be good, but it would also be costly - it's fairly far away, and we're already at 60% research.

Bh

 

[Melior Traiano]

Solid start. I don't think there's enough intelligence about Caesar & Bismarck's dispositions to say whether early war is good option. I thought that Caesar would be pretty far away, but he showed up right next to York, so maybe an early rush to cripple him is not an impractical idea. The other option is to peacefully populate your own land & defer warfare until the medieval era. Given the lack of intel, it's hard to say which option makes more sense.

One thing is for sure, you'll want to get Libraries built & scientists assigned to help with research, and the sooner the better.

 

[slaze]

Looked at the save

You're gonna need commerce to support further expansion. London can have alot of cottages (anticipate Bureauocracy), and there's two grassland squares in Hastings and York has alot of green.

There's also a barb city to the north of York that could be razed for cash.

Techwise, do you really want to go down the Alphabet path? The immediate techs you want are IW and Mathematics on to Construction and Currency. Alphabet often gets you things like IW and Math, but possibly with some delay. Although, with your production potential, I wonder if it would be wise to build Research here and there. COL & CS too.

Open your borders with Caesar. If you see a wandering settler close them down, but right now you need every commerce you can get.

Your economy's at 25 commerce right now minus 9 for maintenance. 4 extra commerce from trade routes boosts beakers from 16 to 20, very significant. (Although you'll only get +1 at present from trade routes)

Build your workers (you'll want a fourth one soon) and get your cottages up. Possibly make a military move at Construction? How can Great People help down the southern tech path?

 

[slaze]

One thing is for sure, you'll want to get Libraries built & scientists assigned to help with research, and the sooner the better.

Agreed ....

 

[aelf]

Should research Metal Casting now, no matter the speed at which we do so? Or should we try and get some tech trading done and get the economy up before doing so? I'm not knocking the first option. If somebody who has tried it thinks it's quite worthwhile for the early GE and Colossus, why not?

 

[Hackapell]

I think that if you prop up your economy, someone will build the Colossus before you. The decision to make here is acheive parity with your rivals, or take a risk go metal casting and hope your GE will be produced fast enough to rush the colossus. If you get it though, your economy will ballon, so it's a high-risk, high-return scenario.

 

[facistal]

Considering you have copper I think using a GE on the relatively cheap colossus would be a waste.

I think you may be better off thinking about the economy first and foremost. To that end I think you should get Alphabet and trade it for IW and whatever else you can get. I also think that if you are going to try for a wonder you are better off with the Great Lighthouse than Colossus.

You have a very defensible position and some pretty decent land, and you military advantages will be more pronounced in later eras (Crossbows, Seige weapons)

Think trade, achive parity, and then go on the offensive with an army that you can be proud of. Crossbows, elephants and Cats/Trebs

 

[Binky123]

I think this is going to be a very hard game...

but I agree with getting a library up and running some scientists asap. Keeping up with AI economy is going to be tough because you aren't in a good position to conquer for a while, and you still have lots of land to settle yourself.

 

[Water2Funk]

Hey, what Mod are you using?
I've seen it through all the other challenges, and I'd like to DL myself a copy.

 

[kniteowl]

The Colossus isn't necessary, VERY NICE for this situation but not necessary, i say wait until at least after alphabet, it just seems too big a risk to beeline to MC right now, when there are better techs you require to improve your economy like Monarchy and Alphabet.

 

[slaze]

The direction of research should ultimately head straight to redcoats, and the path to get there is very specific; there are certain techs you absolutely need. With that in mind, certainly it is wiser to incorporate those tech into strategy sooner rather than later.

If Metal Casting and Machinery cannot be avoided, why not head straight for them?

Pros:
-value in trade, and backfilling may be necessary
-defense, crossbowmen would obsolete Rome
-economy, era-wise you would have the slow, arduous techs completed and an ecomony better suited to plow through the cheaper techs and possibly at bonus.

Cons:
-they are expensive
-other opportunity costs

The value of lightbulbing stagnates at a certain point on the tech tree so to lightbulb for the most value we should lightbulb near that point. You've already built Stonehenge, so it's very possible you get a Prophet. After Monotheism, a Prophet and 2 Scientists can get you almost through Education, and philosophical or not, Universities will take you research to another level.

But if the path goes through Theology, would it be wise to get a religion out of it?

And maybe an Academy in London would prove to be a good investment.

Paper can always be researched at bonus with CS and Theo.
And even CS with Feudalism and COL.

I think you have a choice. Distract yourself with Poly and Mono to pop Theology, or go MC -> Mach and see where you can backfill. Religion or the Colussus at present, other worries later.

Edit - As far as Alphabet, your not going down the Literature path, let others research it for you.
Edit - But maybe it's the way to go, if it can get you IW and Math

Edit - And maybe you can get the Great Lighthouse. You did pop Sailing. How's Hastings doing?

Edit - and then there's Monarchy

 

[oyzar]

whyever would you want to rush the collosus? its soo cheap anyways... You should obviously raze the barb city and rebuild it ne for the crabs i would focus on settling the last 2 cities on the continent while keeping up with cottages(you got space for sevral in the capital too as it is awesome with burecracy) with 6 happiness in all cities this early you shouldnt realy have a big problem. Alphabet then go for col would be my direction possibly trading for either poly or medition if possible. Could also go the math -> currency route as currency is nice for the economy either way, you might be able to trade for math too. With your happiness cap hanging gardens might be worthwhile seeing as you have stone. With 6 cities that should be decent. It might be a problem keeping up 6 cities before col though(and one of them would prolly need monarchy to be benificial anyways...). Seeing as your running a CE monarchy is indeed another nice target, grow biig on cottages so you can get up a solid economy. I would definatly not go for metalcasting as colossus probably isnt very good unless your financial...

 

[aelf]

If we want stuff like Maths and IW, going for Alphabet now is the option. We can probably trade for the more expensive religious techs as well (Poly and Monotheism). Perhaps we could come back to MC after that. The AI doesn't seem to research it early anyway, unless they get it from the Oracle. If we are going for it soon, it would be more for the early forge and engineer than the Colossus, though. But what about CoL and Monarchy? These are techs that are even more important to us. Unless we can trade MC for at least CoL soon (which is more important than Monarchy since we have the Charismatic bonus to happiness anyway), we might be better off getting the latter first.

I agree that the Great Lighthouse might be more useful and is more immediately available than the Colossus. Hastings can build it soon.

Hey, what Mod are you using?
I've seen it through all the other challenges, and I'd like to DL myself a copy.

I'm not using any mod.

 

[slaze]

Well, then Alphabet is the move, IW is too urgent. From there, hmm... Masonry has to be inserted somewhere. And anything towards Monarchy is helpful. After that, MC can get pretty valueable, especially if the trading pool is restricted to you three. Currency would be a beneficial deal as would COL. From there Machinery might get you another round of trading, possibly Feudalism to help for CS but all this is wishful thinking.

Go Alphabet and see what you get from trade. From there it may be better to go straight for Monarchy or on through MC. or maybe Currency.

 

[EEE_BOY]

there seems to be only three civs on this continent, if u researched alphabet, but JC and bismark went different research direction( say one went to maths and the other went to monarchy).in this case u can't trade alphabet for something immediately and u probably give up the chance of the early GE for lightbulb. but if u go down MC and then alphabet, u can get alphabet for maths and IW, MC for something like monarchy or currency( as MC are more expansive than those techs) . and u can head to construction after that (if the GE appears either Machinery or Engineering is very useful). remember beside the long term goal which is victory we also have a goal of getting crossbows and castles early.
as for wonder, the great lighten house is too expansive to go, it is a tricky wonder that can NOT be double-speeded by either stone or marble. and u r not industrial, so forget about it, but we have chance for the colossus if we go MC.

 

[EEE_BOY]

with the stonehenge and ivory in hand, happiness is not that urgent, so monarchy can wait, and u r not going to war or expansion quickly and immediately so code of law can wait. u have copper in hand so another metal is not that urgent, the only thing about construction needs to be debated... i think u havn't explore the AI territory fully, and your economy needs to be developed. so can war be delayed?

 

[Sjaramei]

Hey, what Mod are you using?
I've seen it through all the other challenges, and I'd like to DL myself a copy.

If you mean the graphics it's Blue Marble (which should be standard in the game )

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140246

Back to the game.

I always want CoL fast, so if you are planning some more cities soon (either through conquest or settling) you need it. AI's tend to get it slow sometimes (unless they are Mansa etc) so i'm not sure i would risk it through trade. From past experience Bismarck tend to be backward sometimes, and i'm not sure about the romans tech pace either.

But then the wonders you are considering building might alter the game too, so building Great Lighthouse and/or researching metal casting and getting engineer for colossus seems interesting. Though choice, so i guess it's a risk vs reward assessment. The lesser risk is of course early war (gotta use the advantage of epic speed) and less wonders, so my vote goes for the good old safe CoL and some ancient (elephants/cats as mentioned) war, and settling the important parts of the peninsula.

 

[PublicEnemy]

If you mean the graphics it's Blue Marble (which should be standard in the game )

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140246

Are the graphics Blue Marble? Doesn't look like it to me.

 

[Sjaramei]

Are the graphics Blue Marble? Doesn't look like it to me.

I'm using Blue Marble and it looks like that. So unless something has happened in 2.08 that i don't know about it's BM. (i always install BM at start when i reinstall CIV so if they included some new graphics in a patch i wouldn't know about it)

But there is a huge difference in High res BM and Low res BM. Maybe thats why you don't recognize it?

Edit: Hmm... uninstalled BM, and it wasn't the huge difference i remembered. I should wear glasses i'll blame it on that! Guess you were right.

(anyway back to the game! enough about mods and stuff, more Churchill action!)