The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

[carl corey]

Well done, aelf! The trades were perfect, and scoring the Colossus can't hurt either.

I have one question about the power graph: doesn't it include in some form the military techs? If, as I remember, it does, then a significant part of Caesar's power might be formed by him having Archery, Machinery, Civil Service and Feudalism over you, in which case you can indeed press the attack. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) I agree that Rome is out of reach for now, but you have interesting land to conquer nonetheless.

 

[Solver]

Very interesting round.

Going for Rome would now probably be suicidal. I would favour razing Magyar and settling A. You lose the Wheat, well, too bad for now. However, you can them make the Machinery trade with Bismarck and quickly train some Crossbowmen in addition to your army, and with those, you can march onto Rome. Settling A, of course, means you'll get Iron faster. Settling B requires a border pop and doesn't even guarantee you Iron after that... too risky. Better to lose the Wheat.

If you get lucky, you may begin your second attack and the assault on Rome without the AI getting Crossbowmen. It may focus on Maces instead, not very smartly, which aren't much better than Praets anyway in this situation. And your Crossbowmen should deal with them comfortably.

 

[CivSetä]

Great round, many nice trades! I'd trade Philo for Feudalism to get CS a bit faster.

I would continue campaign until Rome is captured. Whip more troops in York, Neapolis and finally Antium, 2-4 more cats and maybe one more elephant should be enough.

 

[uberfish]

For once I agree with most of the comments posted!

I think the main priority should be securing an iron source to enable future pikes, crossbows and cannons. Going for the capital of Rome is a fairly risky move without having any scouting info (a boat would have been useful for this) so I agree that taking out the closer cities is a better plan. If you can take both Ravenna and Magyar now then keeping Magyar and razing Ravenna gives a better city and resource layout; if you can only take one then I'd reluctantly raze Magyar. I think it's worth pushing for both of them if possible though. Arpinum and Aryan can wait.

Trading Philo for Feudalism will let you stick a couple of protective longbows in Antium to hold the fort there while you clean up these cities.

 

[EEE_BOY]

first, are u still trying to advance through the paper-education-liberalism route with aid of scientists? without philosophy and heavy war action (which you need military superiority techs) I doubt u can get the liberalism first. second, are u going to vessel the roman instead of wiping him out completely? without the third party, Bismark won't trade, but i guess AI on the other continent will show up even before the war with the roman finished. if u answer yes to both , then trade federalism; if no, then go up these techs: machinery( trade with Phi) --> engineering(better siege weapon and castle to take advantage of your trait). i vote the second one as i always insisted. the Rome has much gold and some tech u miss, but I am afraid that JC will capitulate to Bismark if u don't act quickly.

 

[EEE_BOY]

as for iron, Magyar is in good site i personally don't want to raze it, mace man can be built with copper, remember? and site B only needs 15 turns to claim the iron and 6 turns to min that iron. if the roman culture is annoying, take Magyar by force. the roman has not very much prats so crossbows are there to go against Bismark in future with trebuchets, without trebuchets, crossbows are not good at taking cities.
do u want to create a buffer zone this time? maybe it's worth trying to take Rome --> Cumae-->Pisae(raze to rebuild 1SW or keep?) and capitulate the roman. it will be easy against the German later.

 

[Melior Traiano]

Good work with the war so far! I would leave Rome alone, it's too costly to take. Instead, I'd go after the tri-city area of Magyar, Ravenna & Aryan. Which of those to keep & which to raze, I haven't thought through. But the point of going after those cities is to put you in a good position to invade Germany. Why invade Germany? Just look at this screenie:

A city with FIVE wonders is too big of a prize to pass up for any longer than you must. Obviously, the sooner you seize Berlin, the sooner your empire will benefit. I would make the Machinery trade with Bismarck, capture the three Roman cities between your territory & Germany, make peace with Caesar, build up some more forces & get ready to march on Berlin. Keep some green troops in Antium for defense in case Caesar seeks revenge. Rome looks to be his HE city, so chances are he'll send forces after Antium if he declares on you while you're fighting Bismarck.

 

[kniteowl]

LOOK AT ALL THOSE GE WONDERS IN BERLIN, all he need now is the HS wonder in Berlin, if you capture Berlin it'll make a great National Epic city, it has Pathenon and GL, the Pathenon is already polluting the GPP pool with artist so might as well Build National Epic there.

I betting that Bismark has been getting lucky by getting A LOT of GEs and rushing wonders with them, by the time you reach Berlin I bet there'll be at least 1 or 2 more wonders rushed there assuming he Pops anymore GEs from his capital.

 

[oyzar]

Capturing Berlin + whatever city that have GL will give you lot of wonders but will also likely leave you without any trading partners. Which means you need to get to optics pretty fast(needs calendar...). Getting calendar before the wars are over seems like a bad idea given that you want borderpops asap. How fast can you take most of your continent? Also why do you need iron when macemen can be built with copper?

 

[kniteowl]

Capturing Berlin + whatever city that have GL will give you lot of wonders but will also likely leave you without any trading partners. Which means you need to get to optics pretty fast(needs calendar...). Getting calendar before the wars are over seems like a bad idea given that you want borderpops asap. How fast can you take most of your continent? Also why do you need iron when macemen can be built with copper?

For Crossbowmen as they can only be built with Iron and Aelf doesn't have Machinery yet. Besides he wants to build those Drill IV Crossbows and upgrade them to Drill IV Redcoats.

 

[aelf]

@Sisiutil: I have learned a precious lot from your invaluable contribution to these forums, so I do take your ideas with respect. And this one sure had flavor. But as we can see, even without investing into navy and limited resistance so far, dire shortage of siege equipment is hindering our campaign

Actually, we're short of siege weapons because our core cities had started on civilian builds (aqueducts - we were beginning to have bad health problems - and courthouses). I expected more resistance, since Caesar seemed to have more units garrisoned ealier, and aimed to make it only as far as Antium and claim the iron to the north by razing a city. If I had known that we have a good chance at hitting Rome itself, I would probably have built a few more catapults.

But it might not be too late. We can whip some catapults and try to take on Rome. Then again, they would take time to reach the front, and being at war, Caesar is surely fortifying his hilled capital. I'm tempted to take take/raze at most one more city in the north and then sue for peace and wait for trebs before finishing Caesar off (with Rome as prime target, of course). I'm not sure our economy can handle that many cities yet anyway.

 

[Kev]

I wonder if you might have issues getting to the gems on the west side of Antium given the cultural pressure from Rome. Tough to tell from the picture, but I think there is some to the east so at least you can get to those and the happiness they bring will help out along with the $$. The pre-made cottage in Neopolis is a nice bonus as well!

I cannot get to any of the saves, and I'd be greatly interested to see what Germany has as far as strategic resources. Do they have iron in their territory?

Then again, by the time a serious push could be made on them they may have gunpowder. Sure is a different world on this level.

 

[aelf]

Capturing Berlin + whatever city that have GL will give you lot of wonders but will also likely leave you without any trading partners. Which means you need to get to optics pretty fast(needs calendar...). Getting calendar before the wars are over seems like a bad idea given that you want borderpops asap. How fast can you take most of your continent?

I forgot to talk about Germany. Even though Berlin has 5 wonders in it, it is quite far away and in the German heartland. And, yes, we won't have any trading partner but two hostile neighbours if we declare on Germany soon. I'm afraid Bismark can keep his wonders.

 

[Tyrant Roger]

Well done, play at this level is very exacting.

I agree that Berlin in out of reach for now. But capturing it with the wonders there would be a game changing moment. I think it is your best chance for victory in the long run.

If you take Magyar and the mutton city and declare peace you would then be in a position to build your economy and army until such time as attacking Berlin was possible. Rome would be divided and crippled at that point and less of a threat. Crossbowman and Maces take the sting out of Praets.

 

[Yeekim]

Crossbowman and Maces take the sting out of Praets.

Right. However, Caesar has both Machinery and Civil Service by now, so he already can build Maces and Crossbowmen himself No doubt he is doing so right now...

EDIT: @aelf: Yes, I noticed. But that does not change my point, as both civilian builds and cats still did take priority before navy - and rightly so, imho.

 

[Yeekim]

Sorry, double post.

 

[uberfish]

By the time you could capture Berlin its wonders wouldn't have that long a remaining lifespan anyway.

I do think stretching to capture Magyar and raze Ravenna is worth it though for the improved city positioning, and being able to gain and keep a size-9 city.

 

[EEE_BOY]

well, have u considered that the roman will capitulate to the german. if u take Ravenna, u r in direct contact with germany border in which case u have to fight in two fronts. so i suggest rush some catapults and take Rome then sue for peace.
keep Magyar, it's size 9 as other one mentioned.
and gladly seems that next tech will be engineering.

 

[Syndrome Zed]

I don't think Julius is one to capitulate very quickly, and right now he's still very high up on the power graph, so I highly doubt even losing Ravenna and/or Magyar would cause him to give up.

 

[Melior Traiano]

By my count, Rome is 16 squares from London. Berlin is 19 squares from London. Five wonders isn't worth 3 more squares of extra maintenance?

Taking the three cities south of Germany will leave Caesar with just five cities, including his capital. He's not going to be any kind of a mortal threat anymore for the remainder of the game. Leaving Bismarck to keep going on his superior empire development trajectory undisturbed could make him a threat. A campaign to derail Bismarck's peaceful building will make it a lot easier to vassalize or outright conquer both he & Caesar later on. Letting Bismarck build himself up more will make a later war that much more costly & possibly put you in a bigger tech/development hole relative to the other side of the world. And if Caesar ropes Bismarck into the war by vassalizing, you'll still be fighting Bismarck, only your forces will be out of position & he will hold the initiative.