The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

[slaze]

Why do you need Archery? I cant even remember the last time I researched or traded for archery. Only reason i could see you getting it is for longbows for garrison duties, but even then I prefer un its that can attack out of a city.

Drill crossbows.

 

[slaze]

I think you might wanna think about caste system if you're goint to go peaceful for a century or so. Rome has 2 towns on border pop that could be worked right away with artists and wants scientist soon after. At peace you can keep the 13 pop happy, but you cant feed them with the immediate eight tiles. Whipping the courthouse might save you 5 gpt and help with the FP, but you could get more than the 5 gpt with the saved 4 pop. And merchants elsewhere can bring the slider up to get the most out of Rome's towns (no need for the farms, cottage over)

4 workers, 8 cities? You have done an excellent job keeping improvements up, but Hastings could use more cottages. I know you've been fighting the war, but in peace, cottages first hammers second, true CE style. London could use another round of cottaging. with + 6 food you can afford some unhealth. I think it's time to take down another pair of forests. And Market sounds great, 8 gpt is good.

I still can't believe there's no religion on this continent. too bad

And Engineering? What you want is Printing Press. Paper, Edu, PP is the direction. But then what about Guilds on to the the Stock Exchange? chopped Grocer in london sounds good. And Mercantalism would be a big help. Maybe that's the way to go.

Long term wise, yeah, you're probably gonna have another go at the romans to vassalize them (maybe) but I don't think Ravenna is what you're after. Cumae and Pisae are what you want if you're going emancipation (which i agree you should do). After that, look to germany. Once the other continent gets astronomy the Essen wines will be worth a traded resource and Cologne(Great Lighthouse!!), Hamburg, Berlin and Munich are all good cities.

To look ahead, with Englands strengths (redcoat and Exchange) you can afford a fairly large empire and a lower slider, so press on after peace curbs your accumulated WW. Looking very good so far

 

[Melior Traiano]

Peter's big tech lead is exactly what I was afraid of. The protracted war hasn't helped things and the tech situation is made worse by three other factors. Your cities tend to be production challenged to start with, you're building cottages instead of farms making whipping a less attractive option, and you're not generating enough GPs. (It's the 11th century AD & you have yet to generate a 3rd GP!) Going forward, I would focus on getting as many GSs as possible and catch up on infrastructure a bit. And getting the HE built in a decent production city near the front line is a good idea. The +100% military production will be important as you will have to be a warmonger until you've taken over enough of the continent to have a chance at winning. Emancipation-powered cottage growth should do the trick nicely.

 

[slaze]

Peter's big tech lead is exactly what I was afraid of. The protracted war hasn't helped things and the tech situation is made worse by three other factors. Your cities tend to be production challenged to start with, you're building cottages instead of farms making whipping a less attractive option, and you're not generating enough GPs. (It's the 11th century AD & you have yet to generate a 3rd GP!) Going forward, I would focus on getting as many GSs as possible and catch up on infrastructure a bit. And getting the HE built in a decent production city near the front line is a good idea. The +100% military production will be important as you will have to be a warmonger until you've taken over enough of the continent to have a chance at winning. Emancipation-powered cottage growth should do the trick nicely.

Paper isn't really that far ahead, I'd say you're right on their trail. And the lack of GPs means they'll be easier to get. And whipping? No need for whipping. Whipping days are done. And Nottingham, Hastings, London and Rome all have production. Maybe not York and the others but the formers can build the multipliers to support a higher research rate. Yeah, a marketplace + merchants (in say, nottingham) means higher rates for the library cities and rome
Edit-Nottingham's also a good HE site.

Scientists are good for their 3 bpt more than what they can lightbulb. But then, if you could get a religion in Rome and go pacifist, Lightbulbing through Edu and printing press and on would help. Though it's all At the cost of an academy in London (was Philo really worth it? If you go on to Guilds maybe, but well... I'll shut up)

Edit- Open your borders with peter and hope for religion, if that even works pre-astronomy

 

[Melior Traiano]

We were able to jack up our research with all the gold in our coffers. We might even be able to make a decent run for Liberalism if Peter doesn't prioritise his research properly. However, on the next turn...

How advanced was he really? That's bad news. Perhaps the other continent is so advanced there's no hope of winning. That would really suck But I remember hearing of a few GGs being born there, so they should at least be fighting among themselves.

In case you missed it the first time. So Peter is ahead Paper, Education, Liberalism, and whatever free tech he chose. If it's Astronomy, the tech gap will get even bigger. Make no mistake, Peter is centuries ahead in tech. And he will be for a good long while, at least.

 

[slaze]

I was wondering what that post was for. hmm...

 

[aelf]

And Engineering? What you want is Printing Press. Paper, Edu, PP is the direction. But then what about Guilds on to the the Stock Exchange? chopped Grocer in london sounds good. And Mercantalism would be a big help. Maybe that's the way to go.

I'm afraid Guilds and Banking have to be picked up along the way somehow. It seems to be that getting to Redcoats and Democracy are of the utmost importance.

Long term wise, yeah, you're probably gonna have another go at the romans to vassalize them (maybe) but I don't think Ravenna is what you're after. Cumae and Pisae are what you want if you're going emancipation (which i agree you should do).

Magyar provides a good inroad to Germany, though. From there, you can go to Essen and then straight to Berlin. But I suppose it can work as vassal's city too.

Scientists are good for their 3 bpt more than what they can lightbulb. But then, if you could get a religion in Rome and go pacifist, Lightbulbing through Edu and printing press and on would help. Though it's all At the cost of an academy in London (was Philo really worth it? If you go on to Guilds maybe, but well... I'll shut up)

The benefit of lightbulbing outweigh that of an Academy after the early game, IMO. Without lightbulbing Philosophy, we would be in an even worse situation right now, not having Feudalism and being a few turns slower in our research. Anyway, Academies can be captured. We have one in Rome.

About the lack GPs. I know that it's a problem. However, we didn't have Literature until recently and has therefore yet to establish a proper GP farm. And so far running specialists is done at the cost of working cottages and growth, which we have been hardly able to afford. It doesn't help that without the Philosophical trait, GPs take forever to be born, making the investment even more dubious. Furthermore, there's no religion for Pacifism to work and remedy the situation.

I think Peter has been generating GPs like mad and lightbulbing or generating GAs with them. He will eventually slow down, though, especially if the fighting on his continent continues and involves him

 

[aelf]

What did the stack consist of when you attacked Rome?

Something like 5 CR axemen, 2 Shock and Combat II elephants, 6 catapults and a Medic III chariot.

 

[Jorunkun]

Well, congrats for winning the war ... but I still have my doubts on whether taking Rome was the right decision. Considering the incremental cost of time and hammers, this might turn out to be a Phyrric victory. Would be interesting to compare kill/loss ratios from your current and previous reports.

On the plus side, you are now further along on the path to subdueing your home continent, and with all that land to leverage for cottages, there's still hope for the endgame.

So ... when's the next war planned for?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

The way civ works, more land means more power, and there really isn't any good strategy besides taking over the whole (small) continent. You need land for the emancipation boast. Plus, it's time for your redcoats to shine against the Germans...

 

[cabert]

If I understand well the next steps, you're going to hit JC one more time, to try to make him a vassal, then try to hurt/kill/vassalize germany, then grow and tech like mad. Is that it?

You're certainly late in the tech department. Meaning that germans will kill a lot of your troops... Which means you're going to need a lot of catapults.

 

[Heffling]

Before resuming war on Ceasar, I would sell him Philosophy and take in his 570 gold. That'll be that much less cash he has for ugprading his praets to macemen.

 

[oyzar]

Sounds like a good plan to sell him as much as possible. Now that the AI also know how to defict research it is no point in waiting. You shouldnt get penalties with anyone for it.

 

[Olodune]

Nicely played as always aelf ... I've lurked your threads since the nuclear winter (erm "ice age") trade route game.

A couple (unrelated) ideas (I play on emperor/normal, not immortal):

-You are protective with stone and could use a boost in power (who couldn't?), building walls in all your cities may be a relatively efficient way to do so.

-IMHO, the English are the most efficient at using US during the redcoat era. The extra 15% gold from their UB can be leveraged once demo and chem/rifling are in. If a city has a market/stock ex/grocer you can get hammers at 0.72/comm. Without either a grocer or market you can still get 0.63 hammers/comm. The former means that a town (2-1-7) can be thought of as a (2-6-0) tile if you tank your research and rush buy units. Since most of the hammer multipliers aren't available until Assem. Line, this is very impressive production. Additionally, trade route income can be converted into hammers!

I've used the beeline-to-Democracy -> slow-build-banks-while-researching-a-key-military-tech -> rush-buy-the-remaining-production -> rush-buy-a-large-army (on emperor). It can be very effective, imho (You get modern units with full war civic xp, without having to pay upkeep for the past millenia. And you can build them close to the war front. And siege units are not draftable, but are rushable ...)

The Kremlin obviously is hugely helpful (late game) with US (the English can get up to 1.07 hammers/commerce!!)... but I don't see you getting there until Bis. has been buried ... and I think Pete is gonna build it before you can anyways. (It does build fast with stone though, iirc)

-Lastly, I'd be very careful using the draft this game. You are somewhat happiness constrained (no religion, very few (any?) theatres/coll), and are running a CE (so running the culture slider will hurt your economy badly). Also the war with Bismark will not be short, so WW is going to hurt. To me this makes US even more attractive.

-Best of luck during the next turnset!

 

[aelf]

Well, congrats for winning the war ... but I still have my doubts on whether taking Rome was the right decision. Considering the incremental cost of time and hammers, this might turn out to be a Phyrric victory. Would be interesting to compare kill/loss ratios from your current and previous reports.

I don't really understand what you mean here. I think we clearly defeated Rome, almost to the point of crushing it (it was only an issue of where our stack was). The next war shouldn't be too difficult.

You're certainly late in the tech department. Meaning that germans will kill a lot of your troops... Which means you're going to need a lot of catapults.

We might even lose. OMG

I really don't know how it will go. If we lose, we lose. We can only do our best.

 

[KMadCandy]

Well, congrats for winning the war ... but I still have my doubts on whether taking Rome was the right decision. Considering the incremental cost of time and hammers, this might turn out to be a Phyrric victory. Would be interesting to compare kill/loss ratios from your current and previous reports.

I don't really understand what you mean here. I think we clearly defeated Rome, almost to the point of crushing it (it was only an issue of where our stack was). The next war shouldn't be too difficult.

totally agree. kill/loss ratios are interesting, but they show what's already happened. we now have more land and more cities to make more units for the next war, even if our losses were terrible. and JC has less.

this isn't a spoiler, just a guess. you might have "first contact" with a civ on the other continent by a religion spread. i had that happen once. i'd completely forgotten there was one civ left to meet on an archi map, and post-astro the religion izzy had founded for me spread to cathy. she called me on the holy hotline and really scared me!

i played a game recently where my neighbors were mao and JC. all seven religions were founded overseas. it sucked. really, truly sucked. it was deity, played for giggles, so of course mao kicked my candybutt before anybody knew astronomy. but i did live to see somebody circumnavigate and discover liberalism, go me! i didn't find out who the fanatics were until the replay. i suspected isabella of course. HC got hinduism and buddhism . izzy was so bitter she made sure to get all 5 of the others. and yet they got along the entire game, go figure.

and don't listen to cabert. he's even talking like we might lose our SG *giggle*.

 

[EEE_BOY]

it's good to go paper->education->PP. education and PP are expensive techs that can trade for lots of other techs. AI usually prioritize engineering, guilds and banking. u can lightbulb Astronomy to get intercontinent trade and trade routes. and build walls and castles in large cities.
havn't seen crossbows' action so far....

 

[aelf]

havn't seen crossbows' action so far....

Err. Cause we only just got Machinery?

 

[EEE_BOY]

i agree the tech until PP. however, the AI is so fond of getting RP and rifling. i guess they get rifling long before u can start research it (we'll see.). maybe we could go chemstry and steel for grads and canons. then trade for rifling, so that we won't duplicate the research effert after AI's . with the help of canons we could prolong crossbows life span and get more drill IV redcoats. with the help of ironwork( u have plenty of time to complete that before u get democracy), u may possibly have a run for the SoD which will help your economy a lot.
and i would delay economics and corporation as late as possible to take the advantage of castles and GL.

 

[Joxer]

Are we still racing for Liberalism?
If we are not going for the Liberalism race, but instead focus on getting Redcoats, sell off Philo for some coins and calendar. I'm sure there are lots of happy resources that need to be hooked up to increase the happiness cap.

We will need those people to work the many cottages to come. If there are no cottages work, run them as specialists.