The Immortal Challenge 3: The Gathering Storm

[Bhruic]

The Liberalism race is already over. And if you look at the map, you'll see that there's only 1 Happiness resource on the continent.

Bh

 

[OldDays]

Are we still racing for Liberalism?...

...Didn't know how advanced he really was compared to our continent beyond the fact that he had Paper already. Anyway, it's not like we didn't already know we had some catching up to do...

...We might even be able to make a decent run for Liberalism if Peter doesn't prioritise his research properly. However, on the next turn...

How advanced was he really? That's bad news. Perhaps the other continent is so advanced there's no hope of winning. That would really suck But I remember hearing of a few GGs being born there, so they should at least be fighting among themselves...

...err, I don't think so

But I think there is still hope... remember our motto for this game: "We shall never surrender!" ...yes, I know, I am repeating myself but I really like this famous quote...

...
-You are protective with stone and could use a boost in power (who couldn't?), building walls in all your cities may be a relatively efficient way to do so.

I also do this to prevent unwanted visits from my "Number-One-In-Power-Neighbour-With-An-Agressive-Attitude", but in this game I wouldn't do so at this point since JC isn't that much of a threat anymore (in fact he will be the first to vanish in our gathering storm ) and for the upcomming war against Germany aelf will need every bit of his production capacity for "real" battlefield power... well, if a wall only costs 1 turn I think this would be OK, but on epic speed they are likely to be a little bit more expensive...

 

[OldDays]

...by the way: Yesterday I had my first overwhelming victory (alltogether it was my 4th so far) on monarch difficulty and my highest score ever (circa 68.000 points). Settings where standard pangea on epic speed (ok, easy mode but I wanted to train my warmonger skills and got tired of the space race) with 7 civs. I ended up with 5 Vassals and only poor JC left... domination came in 1808

Being Japan is just sooo powerfull with all those insanely high promoted units straight out of the gate...

Anyway... I am tellin' you this because reading your posts aelf really helped me in getting better pretty fast... so thank u very much once again for these great threads...

you ---><---me

 

[Yeekim]

The Liberalism race is already over. And if you look at the map, you'll see that there's only 1 Happiness resource on the continent.

Bh

1) Over before it could start, I'd say
2) Technically, there are at least five. Ivory, Wine, Gems, Spices and Whales off the coast. But really just one "Calendar" one. However, I believe we agreed to delay Calendar because we are Charismatic and have Stonehenge (and I hope the Spice plantation JC so kindly built for us has not been razed). Guess we need to embrace Hereditary Rule to deal with more serious happiness problems tho.

Someone advised for opening borders and hoping for religion. I have mixed feelings about that. Benefits of state religion are obvious, however, clearer view of geopolitical situation would benefit us before converting. When so far behind, diplomacy is the name of the game. If the other continent has some religious loons like Izzy (highly likely), choosing the wrong religion may very well cause her to land a stack of Cavalry and Cannons near London before we even get Redcoats out. I have been screwed in too many games like that Once I've conquered my your home continent, I somehow tend to let my guard down, focus on economic development, tell everybody with a demand to screw himself - and then... one day the sea is no more the protective barrier it used to be...

 

[KMadCandy]

I think Peter has been generating GPs like mad and lightbulbing or generating GAs with them. He will eventually slow down, though, especially if the fighting on his continent continues and involves him

i keep wondering about them over there, and who's fighting who and who's winning if anyone. i looked back at the screenshots from when you met peter, and his world map is not redlined, so he'd trade it for some price. i opened the save to look at his city list. all the names look originally russian to me. i was hoping to see glaring obvious clues on there like Barcelona or Cuzco . i didn't buy his map, because then i'd have to be careful not to spoil your game, so i didn't even ask his price *giggle*.

the event log says that peter got the circumnavigation bonus the same turn he discovered liberalism. so you'd not be helping him as far as that goes by trading maps. just a thought, if you're looking for ways to gather intelligence about the fighting / religious blocs / or just plain curious who's on that continent. if seeing the map before you meet the rest of them won't give you any insight into how to make a good first impression, then save your map so it'll be worth a few more gold to others later of course.

 

[EEE_BOY]

trading the map will certainly count for " you have traded with our worst enemy" penalty. that will mess up the following game if there was a much more powerful civ that hates peter.

 

[Joxer]

the event log says that peter got the circumnavigation bonus the same turn he discovered liberalism.

So the Liberalism race has already been lost then?

 

[EEE_BOY]

liberalism race is no big deal consider we have failed all seven religions and playing tech catch-up. don't panic once the war went well in our continent.

 

[ungy]

Aelf-
nice going with the war--you're definately in this. As for lib--there really wasn't much chance anyway given where u were timewise.

I'd prioritize getting a couple of caravels out to get contacts. Especially since there have been some wars on the other continent there could be some backwards civs to trade with. And getting the lay of the land over there sooner rather than later is important.

JC will give you a good amount of $ for phil--I'd take it.

 

[slaze]

I'm afraid Guilds and Banking have to be picked up along the way somehow. It seems to be that getting to Redcoats and Democracy are of the utmost importance.

Well, it's on the way to redcoats at least, as you know. I understand it's all in the trading and what gets you what, but is it possible to do something like guilds, trade for paper, pop Edu, banking, pop printing press? Getting grocers will get you (2) more health for higher pop to tech with and moves the slider higher. Mercantalism and Banks more and higher still. Getting Nationalism is still a chore, maybe Banking and replaceable parts could do it and you could probably get gunpowder (in time for rifling) with something. just thoughts...

 

[aelf]

JC will give you a good amount of $ for phil--I'd take it.

I agree with this, but we'd have to research Calendar and Optics on our own. I wonder if it's worth the gamble. And by the time we get there, the window of opportunity might be gone, especially since we've been researching techs that the AI likes to get.

 

[slaze]

Come to think of it, Anarchy is brutal. How man turns would mercantalism take to compensate for that lost one? unless you were to couple it with a something like a war against the germans, i'll vote myself down. Stock Exchanges are a different story, where at current slider/commerce levels, one in London is worth 5-6 scientists/merchants (+20 g). Also keep in mind there's still the Economics GM race which, like Liberalism, is in essence a free tech (allright, 1/2 - 2/3 of a tech). Although I expect that to end as miserably as the Liberalism race did.

There are many, many facets that are connected with the "overall plan", but I'd lean towards peace and infrastructure and most of my suggestions (caste system, guilds) correlate with that. But then we just got macemen and baby redcoats so ......................................................

And land is power land is power land is power

 

[KMadCandy]

edit: i need to shut up.

 

[Yeekim]

@KMadCandy

...so the final conclusion of that gigganalyses would be that we really cannot conclude anything yet .

 

[EEE_BOY]

i want to repeat this, in case it is posted earlier and people didn't notice: "the AI is so fond of getting RP and rifling. i guess they get rifling long before u can start research it . maybe we could go chemstry and steel for grads and canons. then trade for rifling, so that we won't duplicate the research effert after AI's ."

i hear people saying banking, well, if u want to get redcoat, banking is required for RP! and RP is required for Rilfing.
AI likes: fedaralism-> guilds(when they have machinery)->banking-> RP(when they have PP and gunpowder) -> Rilfing.
so if we go: paper->education->PP->gunpowder->chemstry->steel. we could trade for a lot techs we missed.
AI is also like nationalism so when u finished steel, u can trade for it even constitutions.

 

[slaze]

Rough numbers on anarchy using you existing empire. Edit-using 1 turn of anarchy

101 beakers/turn at present

8 extra scientists x (6 libraries + 1 acadamy) = +30 beakers/turn
current trade route income (factoring in Rome) = 36 commerce/turn
expected domestic trade routes = 15 commerce/turn, difference = -21 commerce

101 bpt / (30 bpt - 21 cpt) = about 11-12 turns

for mercantalism to pay off at present, alot better than I thought. To note, 101 beakers/turn will only grow as the +30 will stay the same unless you add more cities. I'd estimate it to pay off at no more than 15-25 turns by the time you get it. So as long as Free Market and Astronomy are that far off it's the way to go. And of course, it also helps out with GPP.

And then there's the switch to caste system. The ability to work Rome's 2 towns (+8 commerce, 164 total commerce at present) compensates at a good deal less than 20 turns when you factor in the 4 saved pop (4 extra scientists). And it gets your Great Scientists out faster.

Conclusion: Anarchy's worth it after 1-2 techs worth of turns in terms of pure beakers/commerce. Add in the benefit from other abilities, and it's not too bad at all.

 

[aelf]

i want to repeat this, in case it is posted earlier and people didn't notice: "the AI is so fond of getting RP and rifling. i guess they get rifling long before u can start research it . maybe we could go chemstry and steel for grads and canons. then trade for rifling, so that we won't duplicate the research effert after AI's ."

i hear people saying banking, well, if u want to get redcoat, banking is required for RP! and RP is required for Rilfing.
AI likes: fedaralism-> guilds(when they have machinery)->banking-> RP(when they have PP and gunpowder) -> Rilfing.
so if we go: paper->education->PP->gunpowder->chemstry->steel. we could trade for a lot techs we missed.
AI is also like nationalism so when u finished steel, u can trade for it even constitutions.

I hear you. I think it's a good idea.

Rough numbers on anarchy using you existing empire. Edit-using 1 turn of anarchy.

But we are far from getting Banking. Did I miss something?

 

[ungy]

I agree with this, but we'd have to research Calendar and Optics on our own. I wonder if it's worth the gamble. And by the time we get there, the window of opportunity might be gone, especially since we've been researching techs that the AI likes to get.

Why calender? You have compass.

You need to get the lay of the land on the other continent. There may still be some good trade value to phil or even optics with some ai. More importantly you need to develop a strategic plan and to do that you need to know who is over there (and who they like). As an example Peter has astro and can trade resources (most likely he took from lib). Should you trade with him? As for your research, you need to know what will be tradeable to decide your path.

Not sure what your VC goal is but if you are considering diplo it should be possible if you can avoid trading with worst enemy penalties and can take out Germany with drafted redcoats. Figuring out who the competition will be is essential.
You should be able to get the religion you want pretty soon.

 

[ungy]

Another thing to think about is getting drama--seems like a shame to research it but you will want to get the globe in Rome ready when you have rifles. You're a ways away from that and Rome has good prod so you might be able to trade for it if you go the caravel route. At max food Rome can run +14 food allowing drafting for probably 15 turns and then a little over every other turn after that. You will have another GG from your next war with JC--settle that in Rome and you can draft redcoats with the pinch promo.

 

[aelf]

Why calender? You have compass.

Whoops. Mixed it up with Astronomy.

Anyway, I'm in the midst of playing the next round.