The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix

[Tyrant Roger]

Take the peace offer and the N city.

Revolt to Bureauracy.

Bulb Ed. You still have a strong shot at Liberalism. The AI sometimes go Economics rather than Liberalism for the GM.

How many cities does Shaka have left? Can you vassalize him in the next war?

 

[phurph]

Here's my advice:

For drafted Janissaries, you only need 3 techs at this point: Nationalism, Education and Gunpowder. You can do the Lib swap for Nat, if you think you'll win. This will save you 400 beakers (normal spd) and whatever number of turns that equals. Of course the lib path comes with the risk of delaying drafting by 1400 beaker turns.

If you stop trading techs with Genghis (who needs LBs when you have Jans), he'll have to research any military techs on his own (poor Shaka can't help him much), basically assuring that your Jans will face no more than muskets and many Knights and LBs and MAces. Therefore, they will act as wonderful attackers (with seige) as well as defenders.

You'll be backwards compared to the other continent but what else is new. And who cares once you own your continent.

Edit: if seafood in Nodwengu, it would make a nice junk draft city, so I would take it.

 

[IagoAlberto]

I think phurph has it about right in regards to the techpath and using the scientis to bulb half of education. In regards to Shaka, although a tech would be nice, getting that northern city would consolidate your boarderlands to the south. Thi should give you a decent advantage in concetrating troops for any future war. So take the northern city, it won't be great, but it should be able to pay for itself eventually.

 

[aelf]

Will Khan trade Paper for Feudalism so you can vassalize Shaka?

I highly doubt it. The AI loves Feudalism.

Is Shaka not willing to give you techs too?

The problem is I can't try without asking if he would accept whatever deal it is I put on the table, after which there is no going back. So we should first agree on what we want and then I'll try to get as much as we can.

In regards to Shaka, although a tech would be nice, getting that northern city would consolidate your boarderlands to the south. Thi should give you a decent advantage in concetrating troops for any future war. So take the northern city, it won't be great, but it should be able to pay for itself eventually.

Yup, although I have to point out that Shaka has more cities in the tundra. Fortunately, this is the most important city he has in the north.

With regards to dealing with Genghis later, is the AI smart enough to mass produce muskets when faced with Janissaries? My impression is it isn't, but if it is, we probably need Nationalism quickly if we hope to crush him during the Janissary age.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

he's smart enough to produce whatever's needed to counter you if you have a long time ob with him(so he scouts you) and he decides he prepares to invade you. Otherwise, if you're "safe" in his book, he shouldn't.

 

[Sisiutil]

If Shaka only has those two cities left, I think you should wipe him out. He's offering you a city you can probably easily take from him, and gold that you'll get by capturing his remaining cities. In return, you'll have eliminated a rival and gained a goodly amount of land.

The only real downside is that since he's in contact with only one civ (you), Genghis will not trade techs to you, but you already indicated you wanted to stop tech trading with him anyway.

So, please picture me dressed in a toga with a laurel wreath upon my head, watching from a privileged seat in the stands as the victorious gladiator aelf holds his sword at the exposed throat of the defeated Shaka. I raise my hand, fist clenched, thumb extended out to one side; slowly my wrist twists, the thumb pointing downward.

"Finish him!" I cry, and wait for the blood-thirsty crowd to take up the chant...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Sounds like not having a computer that can run CivIV is getting to you Sis

 

[Sisiutil]

Sounds like not having a computer that can run CivIV is getting to you Sis

Yes, but then again, I always want to see Shaka dead (unless I'm playing as him).

 

[ratrangerm]

If you are going to ask for a tech, ask for Machinery. It's probably the only tech of the three I would really want to grab in exchange for peace, as you should be able to get Calendar from somebody at some point later, ditto for Feudalsim.

Machinery is the only tech you'd really want _now_, so if you can't get Machinery from Shaka, I'd weigh other options before pursuing other tech... either taking the city or just wiping out Shaka.

Although part of me feels you should just finish him off now... but if he is willing to cough up Machinery for peace (along with his gold), then I'd take that, rest up for a while, and then go finish him.

 

[EEE_BOY]

bulb education. delay machinery and wait for next GS to bulb libralism while self research ing gunpowder.

accept the peace treaty. u need shaka alive until u can trade engineering from Genghis. catapults are too weak to take cities. after that wipe him out

 

[Artichoker]

I highly doubt it. The AI loves Feudalism.



The problem is I can't try without asking if he would accept whatever deal it is I put on the table, after which there is no going back. So we should first agree on what we want and then I'll try to get as much as we can.

How about Construction? Can you get Construction from him?

If you can get either Construction or Feudalism, you can use the new units against him the second time around and make the final blow.

Never mind...it looks like you already have Construction.

However, it looks like he does have Feudalism. With Feudalism, you would gain a crucial advantage that could be used in future wars, either against Shaka again, or against Genghis.

So, I suggest maybe a peace deal with Feudalism and a city and/or gold, but I would value Feudalism higher.

 

[Johnpecan]

Taking a tech for peace is highly underrated imo. It's one of the best ways to tech through a long war. Take peace only for a good tech. Then 10 turns later take another city and demand another tech or just conquer him all together.

The only thing I'm really worried about is Shaka vassalising to Khan. This could auto-enroll you in a war with Khan which would be bad.

 

[EEE_BOY]

The only thing I'm really worried about is Shaka vassalising to Khan. This could auto-enroll you in a war with Khan which would be bad.

no, it depends on the relation status with Khan, now he is pleased, we will only get peace treaty with shaka and his master instead of auto-enroll war against Khan.

 

[CivSetä]

I'd still try liberalism, just to make sure. It's not bad tech to trade either, seems like other AIs don't research it by themselves so often.

In general, your game looks good. Can't wait to see some janissaries in action!

 

[aelf]

I'd still try liberalism, just to make sure. It's not bad tech to trade either, seems like other AIs don't research it by themselves so often.

In general, your game looks good. Can't wait to see some janissaries in action!

Thanks! I agree with you on Liberalism.

On whether we should take a tech or the city, I'll see what I can get from Shaka. We shouldn't settle for less than Machinery, though, so if he refuses to give Machinery, we'd take the city.

 

[oyzar]

You should not take machinery as that makes you unable to bulb liberalism with a GS..

 

[aelf]

Hmm... I opened the game and I realised that we had already signed a peace treaty with Shaka (!!!). Did anyone notice that? I don't know what happened. I could have clicked on the wrong thing without realising it (late night playing ) and then saved the game after that.

Well, what I'm going to do is to load the last autosave and do everything that I did for the last 2 turns or so. It's not difficult with to do with screenshots and the game log. I might not be able to recreate everything exactly, specifically the amount looted from the last city and which units do the attacking, but it should largely recreate the situation as it should be and then we can proceed from there.

 

[aelf]

You should not take machinery as that makes you unable to bulb liberalism with a GS..

Good point. If no Feudalism city, then?

 

[oyzar]

Well you need both calendar and compass to lightbulb librarlism directly anyways so it might not matter much, that is unless you can get calendar in the peace trade at least... Also why exactly is the gp farm working a mine instead of another scientist?

 

[aelf]

Well you need both calendar and compass to lightbulb librarlism directly anyways so it might not matter much, that is unless you can get calendar in the peace trade at least...

Nevermind. I'll at least try to ask for both the city and Calendar. I'll stick to the decision of playing the last few turns again to avoid confusion.

Also why exactly is the gp farm working a mine instead of another scientist?

To build buildings. Lightbulbing Liberalism wasn't on the table yet, so getting another GS after Education wasn't such a priority.


PS: The new save is attached below.