The Immortal Challenge 4: Flight of the Phoenix
- Thread starter aelf
- Start date
Can those who are saying 1S explain how it is ever going to catch up in the short or long term to settling on the plains hill? :S The spices alone certainly won't do it... on the plains hill you get +1 hammer the entire game, especially in the early game this is huge saving 5 turns on the first worker alone...
Bleys
Deity
I am convinced. Changing my vote to "Settle in place", but I dont think any of the choices are bad, as someone said, on Epic speed, you have a tiny bit of 1st turn lee-way.
Personally, though, I dont care to settle on hills, especially forested ones. I would much rather settle in a valley surrounded by hills, especially for my Capitol, which is not likely to need the defensive bonus of a hill for potential attacks. I also RARELY waste a turn to move my settler on any level, other than the 1-tile to an unforested plains or grassland that still allows me to settle the same turn.
Personally, though, I dont care to settle on hills, especially forested ones. I would much rather settle in a valley surrounded by hills, especially for my Capitol, which is not likely to need the defensive bonus of a hill for potential attacks. I also RARELY waste a turn to move my settler on any level, other than the 1-tile to an unforested plains or grassland that still allows me to settle the same turn.
MyOtherName
Emperor
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- Dec 7, 2004
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- 1,526
The city's output will catch up rather quickly; stagnating at size 5, here is the maximum output, configured to maximize
:In place: you have 1
15 1 
from:City, wheat, mined pigs, grassland mine, stone quarry, plains forest
1S: you have 16
5 from:City, fish, mined pigs, stone quarry, 2 * plains mine
Furthermore, when the happiness cap is lifted, 1S has yet another hill available, and a better healthiness cap.
I think that settling in place would be a great idea, because you are free to greatly utilize your Expansive worker bonus. Why? It's because settling on the hill and using the forested hill tile on the south gives you whopping production for Worker at the start, allowing you to get him in 13 turns.
Istanbul founded there is not a bad idea - in fact, you could later move your capital a bit to the center, and making Istanbul your Globe Theatre/National Epic city, running full food. Moving south to the lake makes Istanbul much more productive, but less food - wasting a good GP farm location. Fresh water is not a priority playing with a boon of cheap Granaries&Harbors and +2 health.
You are pretty likely to move capital elsewhere anyway - it is obvious Istanbul is in the east and won't save you maintenance if you choose to expand west.
Expansive is a fest for whipping enthusiasts, because you can make a Granary pretty fast and regrow population in no time.
Besides, location one south wastes a good GP farm opportunity, AND it grabs several hard to use early game plains tiles. In short, moving the Settler south would make an ultimate production hoarder, but still those hills need food...
Settled on a plains hill, you grab all the food in the initial location. It's usually a plus.
However, I'm still a mere Monarch player. It's only my two cents.
Istanbul founded there is not a bad idea - in fact, you could later move your capital a bit to the center, and making Istanbul your Globe Theatre/National Epic city, running full food. Moving south to the lake makes Istanbul much more productive, but less food - wasting a good GP farm location. Fresh water is not a priority playing with a boon of cheap Granaries&Harbors and +2 health.
You are pretty likely to move capital elsewhere anyway - it is obvious Istanbul is in the east and won't save you maintenance if you choose to expand west.
Expansive is a fest for whipping enthusiasts, because you can make a Granary pretty fast and regrow population in no time.
Besides, location one south wastes a good GP farm opportunity, AND it grabs several hard to use early game plains tiles. In short, moving the Settler south would make an ultimate production hoarder, but still those hills need food...
Settled on a plains hill, you grab all the food in the initial location. It's usually a plus.
However, I'm still a mere Monarch player. It's only my two cents.
Why do you think 1S wastes anything? You get all the same resources, trades some ocean/coast tiles to land squares and possibly gets a fresh water lake. Yes, you lose 1 riverside grassland square, but I think that's not so bad.. And "grabs several plains tiles" isn't really true, there's only one more plains square we can see right now (+plains hill of course). The only negative side is that we don't really know if it's a lake down to south, or is it part of the coastline. But still if it's not a lake I don't see any loss in moving south.
Well, it's just that if you want to make it an uber-food, you want settling on that Plains hill (which gives an enormous boost early, as I said) and leaving those hills on the south. Hill gives a bonus to defense. You don't actually lose very much, but if later on you'd want to make a GP Farm, these hills may just interrupt. By settling on the plains hill, you get the center 2 hammer bonus AND all the food resources anyway, which is usually a plus. If I remember, you still get few grasslands...
However, I still think that I confused things a bit - some of the post goes to the trash
As for lake, you can check it by hovering your mouse on the non-tree, non-river tiles nearby the "lake". If they read "fresh water" - then you know this is a lake.
It is all about what are you going to do with Istanbul.
However, I still think that I confused things a bit - some of the post goes to the trash
As for lake, you can check it by hovering your mouse on the non-tree, non-river tiles nearby the "lake". If they read "fresh water" - then you know this is a lake.
It is all about what are you going to do with Istanbul.
Clever.. didn't think of that.
Anybody checked it? (My Warlords CD is missing so I can't 
)If thats the case moving is a good option, as mentioned those ocean squares sucks
I would vote for 1s.. grab that sugar tile. there is a desert hill w/ river to the west that grabs up the flood plains and a lot of river tiles. could end up being a great GP farm or a NIIICE ironworks city. either way it will be a good whippage city very early on weather you cottage over the FP or you farm over them. (i'd cottage so you can take in commerce and enough food to rapidly whip)
my only worry is if it is not a lake to the south east its coast.. but that's going to be ok especially if by sheer luck there is another fish out there.
on this speed 1 turn isn't a big deal anyway.
NaZ
my only worry is if it is not a lake to the south east its coast.. but that's going to be ok especially if by sheer luck there is another fish out there.
on this speed 1 turn isn't a big deal anyway.
NaZ
darrelljs
Immortal
For me, fresh water is the biggest reason. I also have a pet peeve against ocean tiles.
Darrell
Darrell
I'd say settle in place, but 1S isn't bad. From what I see it's only 1 ocean tile in the current BFC - I would not flip out over that. The extra early hammer will make a much bigger difference than the 20th tile.
I'd look at the northern grassland hill to have a resource - copper or iron maybe?
Moving 1s does give up that hill, though you gain the hill your settler is currently on.
More importantly, the extra hammer lets you bring your first worker out more quickly. With the Wheel and Agriculture your worker will never lack for something to do.
Ignore fishing for now - between the wheat and the pigs you will have more than enough food for a long time.
Just as a reminder, if the tentative plan is a jannissary draft then bureacracy is pretty much out of the picture.
I'd look at the northern grassland hill to have a resource - copper or iron maybe?
Moving 1s does give up that hill, though you gain the hill your settler is currently on.
More importantly, the extra hammer lets you bring your first worker out more quickly. With the Wheel and Agriculture your worker will never lack for something to do.
Ignore fishing for now - between the wheat and the pigs you will have more than enough food for a long time.
Just as a reminder, if the tentative plan is a jannissary draft then bureacracy is pretty much out of the picture.
darrelljs
Immortal
There are three in the starting location and one if you 1S. I just noticed you are playing Mehmed, who is Expansive. That makes the call much closer IMO...I'd probably settle in place (this is an official vote change if you really do plan of following the wisdom of the crowd).
Darrell
Porphyrius
Warlord
Coastal fish without fishing is quite a tease to me.
Still its a decent start.
Settle in place. The +2 (plain/hill+expansive) towards worker(s) weights much more than making most use of the last 2-3 tiles of the BFC for a city thats destined to be a GP farm anyhow. By the time calendar is around the extra resource will be in another city anyhow.
Not to mention even 2 workers will have enought to get their hands into (between wheat, forests, mines) especially if AH is prioritized.
Still its a decent start.
Settle in place. The +2
(plain/hill+expansive) towards worker(s) weights much more than making most use of the last 2-3 tiles of the BFC for a city thats destined to be a GP farm anyhow. By the time calendar is around the extra resource will be in another city anyhow.Not to mention even 2 workers will have enought to get their hands into (between wheat, forests, mines) especially if AH is prioritized.
futurehermit
Deity
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- Apr 3, 2006
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I would say 2W + 1 S for all the reasons I put in my "I hate coastal starts" thread. However, settling in place would be fine with the hammer bonuses from plains hill. I'd be less in favour of 1S although it would be a good capital as well. I think any of the three choices would be fine, but I would rank them:
1) 2W1S
2) In place
3) 1S
1) 2W1S
2) In place
3) 1S
Unconquered Sun
Emperor
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- Dec 20, 2006
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- 1,462
WB back, Aelf.
Silk sux. Settle on spot for a settler/worker farm to become a GP farm.
Or settle inland for a CE combo capital.
Your choices enforce different playstyles. Go with the one you'd enjoy.
Silk sux. Settle on spot for a settler/worker farm to become a GP farm.
Or settle inland for a CE combo capital.
Your choices enforce different playstyles. Go with the one you'd enjoy.
Forgive the crude drawing, it's just to help visualize what's in the BFC.
The green BFC only has 1 ocean tile, though it has 5 coast (1 of which is fish).
The red BFC loses 1 ocean and 2 coast, but picks up 2 ?s. I suspect those ?'s are all coast - the Stone looks like it's on a peninsula to me.
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