The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #2 - Poland

Nobody lost yet?

Spoiler :
On my first lazy play on this I didn't give much love to city states. My mind was set on building beautiful things and keep Shaka away.

Meanwhile, on the other continent, dark powers grew... Capitals were lost and without me really noticing, city states started to ally the evil powerhouse.

Suddenly there were world leader vote and Washington the terrible (not Alex) won.
 
Nobody liked my Shaka pic enough previously to comment? I thought it was pretty funny. :D

Spoiler :
I am about triple the avg on many demographics, haven't bothered to upgrade any units as my continent is cozy and I am buddies with remaining Alex, Cathy, and George across the seas. I could have easily bought a dozen Frigates and toasted 2 of them, and wailed on Cathy with my army, but I chose to go for a CV. Currently 60 raw tourism vs 10, 6, 4, and 4. USA is the culture leader and I am already near 40% with the 80% modifier. I will soon have shared religion with him and Cathy for 120%.


I'm not even working all my science slots, just trying to pound out Archeologists. I have wonders in all but my 2 coastal expos, where I bought Harbors and Cargo Ships. I took 2 free in Order (25% GP and 2 happy Monuments), but am cruising through the Aesthetics tree, as 33% culture in wonder cities and 15% tourism for religion, trades, and OB seemed too good to pass up.


Building Hotels everywhere too. I may even win this w/o building any Museums, especially if I get to Airports. I popped a GS just as I needed to tech the lower tree, so it is killing me to wait so as not to use the overflow exploit!
 

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yeee, In my game on other continent only Washington and alex alive. And Alex was just alive.
I actually thinking Washington have some army, but when my invasion force come consisted of 6 cruisers, 3 battler ships and 5 full carriers it found only 1 empty carrier and frigate protecting capital, which fall on declaration turn. I look and most of his army was at alex border, even he was in peace.
 
(Extremely) slow domination @T300.

Spoiler :



Yeah, we all know that Shaka can build units but making a decent use for them is another matter. This siege has been going on for ~60 turns and only scary moment was when Darius on 2nd time didn't renew the OB deal when it ended. Luckily I managed to squeeze myself into position soon enough. After Darius denonced me ~T205 I thought screw this & went home - Darius moved his existence to another dimension 3 turns later.



While waiting something with an edge over Shaka I met others though Pacal was already dead @T156, settled 5th city T154, founded WC T163, stole 1st & only tech from Washy T180. My pathetic excuse for a counter spy was just watching while Harun & Shaka stole more than few techs from me.
T235 Plastics & T236 finally - after waiting some 150 turns - DoW Shaka. Few strategicly planted GGs and Ulundi by T245; surprisingly easy.



Capture & sell to Washy who was the only one with any money or raze towards T259 Persepolis. T260 Eiffel Towe & T261 Kremlin as some tourism would be nice as other civs went Autocracy against my Order. Shaka started with Order but local Che organized a revolution when I took Ulundi.



Paying some attention early enough would be nice - I didn't check/remember early enough when my OB from Washy would end hence the massive U-turn and the worse half of my army in no man's land. Some unexpected money drains to the local CSs to become at least friendly before swarming their lands. Washy backstabbed T270 so I wasn't expecting the OB deal to continue.



T278 DoW Alex, T279 liberate Tikal, T281 Palenque & T282 practically stole Athens from Washy - I only killed one unit to make space for the capture. White peace with Alex letting him keep one crappy city.
T284 DoW Harun & T286 Mecca but surpringly no one was very saddened by the sudden death of the Arabs. I noticed that Alex the bastard had converted some cities to his religion out of my radar and since I had to take detour through Tikal I was still several turns away from annexing Palenque so I had to postpone the last war to have some time to buy prophets & do some unwanted late conversion.



T298 DoW Washy and drop few XCOMs near Washington and Moscow. Two GG bombs before the war made some space to squeeze past American cities to Brussel but that wasn't really needed - paradropping rules.



No intentions to take cities here but to safe guard my pilgrims.



Moscow down in one turn.



Washington took two turns but I had a feeling I had enough troops around to capture it.







Piety is obviously crap to start with until there's a religious VC but with friendly neighbours it doesn't matter. Full Piety, then full Honor, 4 Rationalism then almost full Order, few Patronage & Rati finisher for Laser & 3 bought GSs which were used for XCOMs on T273.

No ranged units of any sort which was the obvious reason for hanging around with Shaka for so long. Another draw back with this was that Shaka had so many units that there wasn't barb camps to clear after very early turns so I lacked early xp and hence GGs.

Infantry was quite enough to kill Shaka and would've been enough to finish the game but slower. Promoted Modern Armors will kill anything and with March are basically unkillable by GWB level units besides when I stole Washy's CSs allies with oil as soon as I could he probably didn't have as much planes as he would've preferred - others were obsolete in terms of military power.

Harun pumped out insane amount of missionaries from just one city but apart from that it wasn't that hard to convert whole world.
 
There is one generic unit that I have never built in Civ 5: The Giant Death Robot. So why not make a game out of it? Obviously some rules are in order to make for a good time :)

Variant Ruleset
Spoiler :

Must win a Domination Victory
Only a GDR may capture a city

Land unit restrictions: May only build the following combat units; Scout, Warrior (for barbs), Horsemen -> GDR (all cavalry and armor).

Air units: Only (jet) fighters allowed

Naval restrictions: May only build the following; Triremes, Caravels, Subs, Nuke Subs, Carriers (for fighters)


Some thoughts
Spoiler :

Obviously I will need a strong science game. Getting to GDRs is only a few techs short of a space victory so some building time is required.

Target Ideology: Autocracy for Lightning Warfare, and Rush Buying

Key Wonders: Alhambra and Brandenburg for lots of promotions. Maybe Big Ben.


Disclaimer
Spoiler :

Unlike the DC games I've played I have a rough idea of the lay of the land here: I know there are separate continents, and that Shaka is nearby. Defending with Horsemen/Knights could be interesting. :)

I don't know where the Oil or Uranium is which is be crucial down the line.


Opening Actions, to t150
Spoiler :

Poland is so strong. I decided to go to collective rule before getting full Tradition.

I built the great library and Hagia Sophia early, and added the Oracle, Notre Dame, and Alhambra ( :) ) later on.

t100



t150



So far so good!
 
There is one generic unit that I have never built in Civ 5: The Giant Death Robot. So why not make a game out of it? Obviously some rules are in order to make for a good time :)

Hmm, are my weird rules contagious?

Anyway, GDRs are cool the only downside being that there rarely is surplus of uranium - late tech is hardly GDR's fault but it makes them sort of final resort. I on the other hand made my first ever defensive pact with the Mayans - had to finally make sure that there really is function behind the option.
 
Hmm, are my weird rules contagious?

Haha. Feel free to take credit, but I actually wrote the ruleset for the Japan game but never found time to play it. :lol: I like variant play because it breaks habits and forces interesting decisions.

Most of my CFC posts are from Civ 4 Succession Games with fairly strong rulesets. Not sure why SGs died in Civ 5. Maybe just because of the poor state of the game at launch? :shrug:

Edit: I haven't read most of your report yet since I don't want to see Uranium locations ;)
 
SG died mostly because no individual input possible, you have to plan your game from start to finish, or near so. Social policies make it so. In Civ 4 you can change direction on the fly to make use of opportunities.
 
Haha. Feel free to take credit, but I actually wrote the ruleset for the Japan game but never found time to play it. :lol: I like variant play because it breaks habits and forces interesting decisions.

Edit: I haven't read most of your report yet since I don't want to see Uranium locations ;)

Nah, I hardly was the first to implement extra rules so I can't claim it as my invention but I was willing to take the blame for spreading the disease.
The variety & breaking habits comment is spot on - without implementing own rules I'd have been waiting for Civ6 for quite some time now instead of playing it and moreover these rules make interesting read what others have done. Keep on experimenting and all that sort of things.
 
Unfortunately it is mach less fun in Civ5. In civ4 different play stiles were more balanced.

Cottage economy and food economy booth were competitive. Cottage did give early wins, but were mach more susceptible to dows. I was even successful with food economy in multiplayer.

In Civ5 nothing really work good but tradition.
 
Nobody liked my Shaka pic enough previously to comment? I thought it was pretty funny.
It's hilarious, and pretty well made.

Did you do that? Or did you just find it?

In civ4 different play stiles were more balanced.
Not being able to directly trade tech had a huge impact on civ5. It was a great mechanic for leveraging potentially "inefficient" approaches.

It reminds me of another thread (here or in general discussion) about befriending warmongers; why wouldn't you? This isn't civ4; there's no Mansa Musa. A peaceful AI is a useless AI.

Not sure why SGs died in Civ 5. Maybe just because of the poor state of the game at launch?
50/50 absolutely hated 1UPT or (outside of 1UPT) found the game too easy.

Add the removal of civ4 features (for a no doubt planned money-grab expansion), and it's pretty easy to see how someone felt this was an inferior product.
 
It's hilarious, and pretty well made.
Did you do that? Or did you just find it?

Thanks! The Kool-aid guy was I believe from the Family Guy TV show. I put him in the scene, had to mask out his environment, and mask out Shaka's foreground poles and such. I added the sword and spent about 2 mins making the cheesy hole in the hut. I really like this meme, the Kool-Aid guy blundering his way around Civ V.
 
My first attempt at a Sacred Sites CV. I certainly didn't start out with that in mind, and didn't finish Piety until after tradition. But in the end, so much tourism - 189 raw. 16t from SS, 20 wonders spread among 8/11 cities (10 in Warsaw, all hard-built), 8 Landmarks, and Hotels anywhere with a wonder or Landmark. Finished Aesthetics late, again - didn't plan on CV until mid-game. Had all of the theming wonders, couldn't theme Louvre cuz not enough foreign art!

I didn't even have Pub Schools in half my cities. Hit Plastics 225-ish and bought RLabs in 4 cities, but I could have just hit Auto-everything like 20 turns earlier. Just a huge snowball. I had OB and TR with the other continent, so 80% modifiers. They were just starting to pick Ideologies.

I went Order, thinking I would need the science factories to get to Airports/Internet, but obviously Freedom would have been better.

This was only my second Poland game - wow are they a beast! So far these 2 Imm Challenges have seemed easy to me after the first 120 turns or so, even though I have not done science optimally. They had some things in common:
1. 4 city Tradition start, then small early conquest of neighbor. Then early mid-game conquest with early annexation of puppets with good dirt and good local faith bonuses.
2. 3+ deep in Piety, Theocracy is niiiice combined with happy Temples belief. Tithe, Itinerant Preachers, and available faith building.

It is interesting the approaches people are making with set rules. last Imm Challenge I made myself build Hotels everywhere, I believe. Not a huge hinderance, but... I could see me doing that style on Imm during mid- and late-game. I love how early game feels, enough of a challenge w/o feeling like a gnat like I do on Deity. There, I can build almost nothing but units the first 80 turns and still have a 50% army LOL.
 
Domination Win T293 with Olodunes special rules (only horseman line units, and only GDRs can capture cities)

Very fun unit indeed if you are 2 tech ages ahead of everybody^^

Spoiler :
After seeing how far the neighbours are away i decided to build a worker myself (even though i managed to steal a worker and a settler from Shaka) to get the Salt going asap
BO: Scout Scout Monument Worker GL
After GL and NC i build a settler and some Food building and starting basically wonderwhoring with some extra utility science / gold / food buildings.
Got Hanging Gardens, Hagia too until T105.
SP wise Poland is absolutely insane so i opened Tradition until the food policy and the got the liberty settler which aligned with my build settler from capitol.

Hit Education T100 and used the first internal trade routes to feed capital.

Spoiler :


After building / buying all the universites i was alrady tech leader (well it was the first time i checked demographics), so i was able to build every useful wonder when getting to the corresponding tech. ( Pisa, PT, Machu Pichu, Alhambra, Forgotten Palace...)

Spoiler :


Unfortunetyl i sailed the most wrong route to meet the last remaining civ so the WC was very late. I build again all the useful wonders (and some useless too because i could not do anything useful with my hammers).

Spoiler :



And as you can see on the screenshot i had to do all the work for the worlds fair alone -.-.

I luckily aligned the WC ending with plastics so i could use the free policy to finish rationalism and bulb plastics T203.

I Bribed Shaka the whole game to attack my continent and he did wiped them completely. And when he had nothing left to do he attack me ~T220.
I had build some Knights (and 1 Winged Hussar, oops) but he came with a ton of units so i had to bulb some GS to get to tanks.
When getting to tanks it was just a steamroll and he signed white peace after i killed all his units (but he killed Kuala Lumpur :( )
And having tanks with instant 3rough and self repair promos is awesome !

Spoiler :



Until T267 i did some random but THEN i got my GDR tech and bought evey round one and build one every 2 rounds until i had used up my 8 uranium.

I only got 4 cities but still have the highest pop and i am WAY ahead in tech and more policies than i think are useful...

Spoiler :



Cleaned my entire continent 16 Turns later (only 11 Turns of war)

Spoiler :


Then it took far too much time to ferry over to the other continent (did the promoted ones the long way and the new build ones with newly aquired uranium the short way)
Declared war on Alex T289 and it took 4 Turns to get to all the 4 capitals on his continent

Spoiler :




 
GDR Conquest, Part 2 - Tech Acquired

Spoiler :

I threw a couple bribes at Shaka so I could focus on my economy, but after he has killed Arabia and Persia, it is time to face the inevitable. Luckily the Age of Impi is long since past. I'd have fun fighting a defensive war by cycling my cavalry against his huge wave of Impi.



Do I have Uranium? Yes, barely. I'm going to have to annoy my ally Kiev to pick this up. Zulu lands are chock full of Uranium too so it won't be a bottleneck, especially since I've already picked up Third Alternative.



Lightning Warfare might not be the best Tenant in the game but it is a lot of fun. You can't zone me in, Shaka. :)



Despite the salt-Poland start tech is a little slower than I'd like. Partially this is because Autocracy is not great for teching (if I have the lead), and partially this is because I've spent a lot of resources putting Infrastructure down and fighting Shaka. Still, here we go, the first Polish GDR member of Squad Zulu Eradication.

I have morale, repair, and lightning warfare promos off the line. The first earned promotion will be Blitz. (I can't upgrade old units yet since the armor prereq (Lasers) is off the GDR tech path).



- I've built a city on the other continent that is working on an airport, so a second front will be opened in about 10 turns.

- Despite being 6 move units that ignore ZOC I expect it will take a good while to clear this map. GDRs should be much slower than X-Coms or Stealth Bombers.

Fun times ahead :lol:
 
Nice Olodune, you achieved the GDR much faster but i think u totally beelined it after Plastics? i got a bit around and teched far too much not needed techs^^

and the airport city will help greatly for the finishing time
 
The GDR war

Spoiler :

Having never used a GDR before, did I turn combat animations back on for this segment? You bet I did.

Ok, these guys pack a punch. In only a few turns the Zulu empire had been reduced to ash. Those 6 mp combined with moves after attacking actually do make a big difference.



The airlift operation was a success. Opening a two front war:



The massive base strength of these guys makes for mid-200 modified strength attacks on cities and 300+ attacks against units on defensive terrain. Talk about overkill:



With blitz and ZOC immunity these guys can walk through the AIs unimpeded. Turn 263 turned out to be the ticket to a mech dominated world.

First the Mayans:



Then the Greeks:



And finally those pesky Americans:




Thoughts

- Once the war started it was over much sooner than I expected (16 turns for total world conquest).

- Obviously not a "competitive" strategy. Too much tech is required when X-Coms would be just as effective and a lot easier to reach.

- I was worried about Bombers which is why I left fighters in the variant. These were uneeded - GWBs die attempting to attack GDRs. Every time. There were a lot of times. :lol: Even Battleships (Cathy) barely put a dent in the armour.

- It could be interesting fighting Atomic+ troops instead of the Modern armies I had to deal with.

- Fun game, off to read about Grendel and FireOrbs, games. :)
 
@Grendeldef

Ok. So you won easily but why didn't you build an army? :p

That is the largest X-Com drop I've ever seen by a factor of at least 4. :lol: What was your super religion? How much GPT are you making from it, I wonder. With that much faith I would be tempted to go for the "buy any GP" or Jesuit Education reformation ...

@FireOrb

I agree that those highly promoted tanks are a lot of fun. They are in no way competitive with logistics bombers, sadly. GDRs are fun stompers.

You have a better/faster opener than me, so I'm not sure where I got to GDRs faster. I didn't target Plastics very well (because of my 5th and 6th cities, Oxford was not yet an option). I got there on t193 with a bulb, but went Military Tradition earlier for Shaka defense and Fertilizer for growth. "Beelining" GDRs isn't much help since three deep tech paths are required.

On the map: Getting Hanging Gardens and/or Temple of Artemis seems to be the right solution to this start. (Not that I went for either :lol: ). I think Raging Barbs help ensure that any wonder is available.
 
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