The Kiwi Concept?

[Zardnaar]

Over here it's reasonably common to self identify as a kiwi. It's an informal term basically meaning New Zealander. Race doesn't matter.

Immigrants can become kiwis to me it's independent of citizenship ship though. Basically you can become a kiwi IMHO before your citizenship papers come through. If you get your citizenship papers and immediately sod off to Australia you're not really a kiwi IMHO.

To me it basically come to to a good faith attempt to become a kiwi. I have seen sone foreigners struggle with the concept as back home clan, race, religion, caste etc may matter as well. That's up to the individual to sort out.

Now here if you want to be a Maori it's mostly self identification but you may need to trace your ancestry for things like tribal matters (joining one, scholarship grants, cultural events etc). Maori are automatically kiwis if they want to be. Not all of them want to identify as kiwi or it's even slightly insulting (they identify as Maori first and maybe only).

Cuts across a lot of racial BS. An African American could come here and become a kiwi. Any of their kids are in with a grin as well assuming they want to identify as a kiwi.

For me it's only annoying for imports to claim they're kiwis if they're tourists, fresh off the plane or otherwise aren't genuinely making an effort which is kind of hard to do long term.

My known ancestry is Welsh, English, probably Scottish, possibly Irish but I don't know all of my family tree. It's kind of absurd to me to claim any of those ethnicities. Claiming descent is fine. Some try hard annoyingly do it's similar to those Americans who claim to be German because they have a single German great grandfather.

Kiwi does sound better than post Colonial Mongrel I suppose. As I understand it other countries may have something similar eg everyone is French but that still kind of implies you're abandoning your old ethnicity.

Anyway CFCs thoughts on the concept.

 

[Arwon]

Jus soli > jus sanguinis

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Over here it's reasonably common to self identify as a kiwi. It's an informal term basically meaning New Zealander. Race doesn't matter.

Immigrants can become kiwis to me it's independent of citizenship ship though. Basically you can become a kiwi IMHO before your citizenship papers come through. If you get your citizenship papers and immediately sod off to Australia you're not really a kiwi IMHO.

To me it basically come to to a good faith attempt to become a kiwi. I have seen sone foreigners struggle with the concept as back home clan, race, religion, caste etc may matter as well. That's up to the individual to sort out.

Now here if you want to be a Maori it's mostly self identification but you may need to trace your ancestry for things like tribal matters (joining one, scholarship grants, cultural events etc). Maori are automatically kiwis if they want to be. Not all of them want to identify as kiwi or it's even slightly insulting (they identify as Maori first and maybe only).

Cuts across a lot of racial BS. An African American could come here and become a kiwi. Any of their kids are in with a grin as well assuming they want to identify as a kiwi.

For me it's only annoying for imports to claim they're kiwis if they're tourists, fresh off the plane or otherwise aren't genuinely making an effort which is kind of hard to do long term.

My known ancestry is Welsh, English, probably Scottish, possibly Irish but I don't know all of my family tree. It's kind of absurd to me to claim any of those ethnicities. Claiming descent is fine. Some try hard annoyingly do it's similar to those Americans who claim to be German because they have a single German great grandfather.

Kiwi does sound better than post Colonial Mongrel I suppose. As I understand it other countries may have something similar eg everyone is French but that still kind of implies you're abandoning your old ethnicity.

Anyway CFCs thoughts on the concept.

I still can't wrap my mind around someone identifying as a type of fruit with a fuzzy brown exterior and a delicious green interior.

Seriously, though... in Canadian terms, some of this is similar.

For instance: I consider someone Canadian if they have Canadian citizenship. Sorry, but permanent resident status doesn't count, because they can't vote.

There's a condition attached to this, however. People from another country who come here, get citizenship, then promptly go back to their former country, or to a different country (some asylum seekers or refugees do this - use Canadian citizenship as a stepping stone to enter the U.S. and then disappear only to return if they need something), and only consider their Canadian citizenship when they need something like health care or a lift out of a trouble spot that they got themselves into are not, in my view, real Canadians. They are what we call "Canadians of Convenience" and have no respect for the concept that citizenship carries responsibilities, as well as privileges.

As for ethnicity, some people don't care. Some don't even know. I had no idea until my mom's mother died a few years ago that she was American by birth. I know that at least one half of my mother's side of the family came from Ireland, but since I'm not sure which half (likely my maternal grandmother's side, judging by the abundance of red-haired people among them), I tend not to identify with that.

People have asked me if I'm Swedish, if I'm Norwegian, and I say yes. Not because I was born in either of those countries, but my grandfather was born in Norway to a Norwegian mother and Swedish father. My grandmother was the first member of her family to be born in Canada; her parents and sister were all born in Sweden. I actually did have a bit of a Swedish accent in childhood, due to spending so much time with people whose first language was Swedish (even my grandmother; she didn't start to learn English until she started school at age 6 as the older generation in the farming community she grew up in here all spoke Swedish at home). It was funny when my Grade 12 typing teacher asked me about it - he said, "I can tell you're Swedish from your accent."

I hadn't realized I still had one by that time, but evidently still had enough of one for him to pick up on it. He'd taught in a community similar to the one my grandmother grew up in, before moving to Red Deer.

So in this respect, I don't mind if people want to think of me as Swedish-Canadian or Norwegian-Canadian because of the close family ties. There are a lot of community groups here for a lot of different ethnicities, and I've found the Swedish and Norwegian groups very welcoming.

 

[GenMarshall]

I still can't wrap my mind around someone identifying as a type of fruit with a fuzzy brown exterior and a delicious green interior.

I always thought it was a small fluffy ANGRY BIRD that shoots laser beams out of its eyes .

Seriously, though... in Canadian terms, some of this is similar.

For instance: I consider someone Canadian if they have Canadian citizenship. Sorry, but permanent resident status doesn't count, because they can't vote.

Pretty much a similar concept in regards to being an American.

 

[Zardnaar]

I always thought it was a small fluffy ANGRY BIRD that shoots laser beams out of its eyes .




Pretty much a similar concept in regards to being an American.

That's our new battle flag in Ukraine.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Race doesn't matter.

I bet it matters to kiwi's who aren't white

 

[Zardnaar]

I bet it matters to kiwi's who aren't white

NZs not perfect plenty of non white kiwis though.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

NZs not perfect plenty of non white kiwis though.

Bro you could say the same about israel or France or the usa or south Africa

You don't seem to grasp what im saying

 

[Zardnaar]

Bro you could say the same about israel or France or the usa or south Africa

You don't seem to grasp what im saying

You're assuming the worst as per usual.

Racism exists here but we didn't have segregation, lynching, red zoning etc.

Schools have been racially integrated and central government funded since 19th century.

School shootings aren't a thing and the Maori Renaissance started in 1970s.

There was no civil rights movement as such here because what the blacks in America wanted the Maori got in 19th century.

We're not perfect but no where is.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

"The blacks" lmao jesus christ

 

[Zardnaar]

"The blacks" lmao jesus christ

Different country. African American isn't accurate either.

You are aware Southern troops caused a riot here with their actions in the war years?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street

American racism 1940s lol. Bit different here but probably not dramatic enough for you.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The difference is that im not downplaying institutional and societal racism, you are though.

In a country founded by colonization, no doubt

 

[Gorbles]

Racism exists here but we didn't have segregation, lynching, red zoning etc.

https://tewaharoa.victoria.ac.nz/discovery/fulldisplay?docid=alma99179298702402386&context=L&vid=64VUW_INST:VUWNUI&lang=en&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&tab=all&query=any,contains,Oriori&offset=40

You uh, sure about that?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

maybe we should ask kiwis that aren't white about their experiences of discrimination instead of relying on the dude who is

 

[Snowygerry]

(...)

For me it's only annoying for imports to claim they're kiwis if they're tourists, fresh off the plane or otherwise aren't genuinely making an effort which is kind of hard to do long term.

My known ancestry is Welsh, English, probably Scottish, possibly Irish but I don't know all of my family tree. It's kind of absurd to me to claim any of those ethnicities. Claiming descent is fine. Some try hard annoyingly do it's similar to those Americans who claim to be German because they have a single German great grandfather.

"German" or "French" wasn't a "ethnicity" before the 19th century or so, it was more a demonym, "coming from" the lands theoretically belonging to the German (Roman) emperor or the French (Frankish) king, nationalism (or even racism) are rather newfangled inventions, don't get too hung up on them.

Kiwi is a fruit, like a tomatoe

 

[Arwon]

The word kiwi is originally for the bird the kiwi. Kiwifruit was a later adoption, a result of the fuzzy skin looking like a kiwi.

 

[Snowygerry]

Sounds onomatopoeic to me, is it ?

Edit, And - it is...

KIWI, KIWI, KIWI

A kiwi can be a fruit, a name for a New Zealander, and a type of bird. But how are the three connected? The oldest of the words is the one meaning "bird". It comes from the Maori language, where it...

www.etymologynerd.com

Do I win a prize now

 

[GenMarshall]

"The blacks" lmao jesus christ

You do realize that blacks exist outside of Africa. I’d be silly to call a black Haitian or a black Brit an “African American”.

The difference is that im not downplaying institutional and societal racism, you are though.

Can you show where he is downplaying institutional and societal racism instead of attacking him? The difference between you and Zard is he is not terminally online and not overly obsessed with the issues you hold. It’s clear as day that he said NZ isn’t perfect, no country is. As Zard said, you only presume the worst.

In a country founded by colonization, no doubt

Kiwi is a fruit, like a tomatoe

I disagree! Kiwi is a tiny fluffy angry bird that shoots lasers out of it’s eyes. The only animal that can take on the Australian wildlife. The Aussies should have asked New Zealand for some angry kiwi birds during the Emu War .

 

[Gorbles]

Can you show where he is downplaying institutional and societal racism

I mean, I showed exactly where, if that helps.

As Zard said, you only presume the worst.

This is amusing coming from the poster that assumed I meant something "Marxist" by the phrase "material conditions".

Also, we're all regulars in the Off Topic section of a video game fan forum. On the scale that most folks would weigh us on, we're all "terminally online". Just because some folk happen to care about problems you don't seem to think are worth mentioning (for whatever reason), doesn't mean these people are "terminally online". It just means they care about things to a level that you don't (important linguistic note: this is not the same as saying you don't care, period).

 

[Snowygerry]

(....)

I disagree! Kiwi is a tiny fluffy angry bird that shoots lasers out of it’s eyes. The only animal that can take on the Australian wildlife. The Aussies should have asked New Zealand for some angry kiwi birds during the Emu War .

Do they have dropbears in NZ or is that just in Australia ?