The least deserving civilization?

Which is the least deserving civilization?


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They respected/protected mother Earth and only took from her what they needed

Because they were a bunch of tribes and didn't have the technology to take exploit it.

Some tribes had confedrations and even Treaties among themselves...

oh wow they had treaties thats really advanced. they could agree on things great.


gues the tribes had technology cause they had masonry for some of the stone buildings and hunting/pottery for making huts and a religous system....hmm no one remembers the totem pole?

Basically everyone in the world had some sort of creation myth. totem poles, some large sticks with painting on?

I'll admit though when a strnger comes with cannons and guns and all you have is sticks and horses....that stranger is Superior but only in terms of military might....

Superior in the way of military strength, culture...superior music, superior technology superior political system etc.
 
now that confuses me greatly....

you have no idea what kinda music they had.....all we know is they did alot of types of dance...rain dance, Sun dance, pretty much they danced till dawn

maybe they had drum solos going on when no one was looking...we will never know
 
Don't forget the Ghost Dance! Here's their dance video LINK. It looks like this is where Snoop Dogg got his idea for the C-Walk! Let's see their "superior" conquerors pull off some of those moves! Natives' war cries and chants caused pandemonium amongst their foes. Dog Soldiers would charge in and make kills on the disoriented enemy. Guerilla warfare was a far more superior military tactic than their "superior" conquerors. The Natives had plenty of culture. So much culture that a lot of it spilled over and still exists today in America. And for that comment about they couldn't exploit their resources.. They chose not to because they favored environmentalism like Sitting Bull's favorite civic suggests. -Much like how samurais of Japan refused to upgrade to muskets...
 
you have no idea what kinda music they had.....all we know is they did alot of types of dance...rain dance, Sun dance, pretty much they danced till dawn

whatever it wasn't as good as pachabel or bach

The Natives had plenty of culture. So much culture that a lot of it spilled over and still exists today in America.

yeah because people say all the time how great it would be if we could just partake in some native american activities or listen to some native american music or wear some native american clothes or perhaps utilize their superior building methods.
 
How can you judge whether an entire civilization deserves to be in a video game or not? Really, these discussions always degenerate into flag waving and don't offer anything constructive.
 
One would think, the requirement for a civilization to be in a game of civilization would be for them to be, at least, a civilization! Which Native Americans were not.
 
How can you judge whether an entire civilization deserves to be in a video game or not? Really, these discussions always degenerate into flag waving and don't offer anything constructive.

How can you judge whether we can talk about what civs don't deserve to be in this game?
 
Well lets see Spain, Germany, Inca, Persia, Ottomans, and Arabia all have 0 votes.

America would probably have 10 by now and Mongolia about 4.

Interesting turn of events
 
Japan had power and had economic power,,,its fading into the sunset and even though I'm an America I also see America doing similar in the future...

Just because Japan isn't doing the massive economic boost of 80s and 70s doesn't mean it's "Fading away". It still has a lot of influence, in technology and such. And America will probably lose it's status eventually too, but it'll probably still be a nice place to live, just not influential.

Sort of like Canada. :)
 
bach and beethoven are my favourite, I also like tchaikovsky vivaldi and alot of others to many to list here off the top of my head (also its kind of getting off topic).
 
Well lets see Spain, Germany, Inca, Persia, Ottomans, and Arabia all have 0 votes.

America would probably have 10 by now and Mongolia about 4.

Interesting turn of events
How is that interesting? If "10" votes is interesting, what do you consider the "48" votes the Holy Roman Empire has racked-up, blowing away everybody else in the poll?!?!?!

Seems quite clear, an interesting 10 votes for America still pales in comparison to the unity that is the anti Holy Roman Empire vote!
 
This thing about the Mongols not being a Civ, not true IMHO.

They destroyed European armies routinely, and it's said one in four Mainland Europeans have Mongol blood today as a result of Mongol conquests. They went home undefeated and probably bored!

That's quite an overstatement, since they only faced european east european armies, which were (Hungarians) coming from the same part of the world. After the battles, they withdrawed for one major reason (not only the death of the Khan):

even if they were able to destroy the Polish and Hungarish army, they never managed to seize european fortress and castle, which were much stronger than Chinese ones. During their withdrawal, hungarian chased them and destroyed all their reargard.
The aftermath was that Hungarian accelerated their 'europeanization' and started using european armors.

The main reason for 1/4 of european population having mongol genes is to be related to Attila and other barbarian waves under Roman Empire, not the mongols themselves. The myth of the guy on the horse destroying everything is easily proven wrong by some famous battles: check Richard of England in Palestina, Frank heavy cavalry against arabs and mongolian....

About mongols in Europe, check wikipedia...
"Though victorious, the Mongols were horrified by their losses and decided to withdraw their army out of fear that a fresh army should attack them, leaving their fallen behind.

Some western historians attribute European survival to Mongol unwillingness to fight in the more densely populated German principalities, where the wetter weather affected their bows. The territory of Western Europe, with more forests and with many castles along with many opportunities for the heavy cavalry to counter-attack possibly made Western Europe a more formidable opponent. Also, despite the steppe tactics of the Avars and early Hungarians, both were defeated by Western States in the 9th and 10th centuries. A significant number of important castles and towns in Hungary had also resisted the formidable and infamous Mongol siege tactics.

In the mid-1280s Nogai Khan led an invasion of Hungary alongside with Talabuga. Nogai lead an army that ravaged Transylvania with success, where cities like Reghin, Braşov and Bistriţa were plundered and ravaged. However Talabuga, who led an army in Northern Hungary, was stopped by the heavy snow of the Carpathians and the invading force was defeated near Pest by the royal army of Ladislaus IV and ambushed by the Székely in the return. As with later invasions, it was repelled handily, the Mongols losing much of their invading force. The outcome could not have contrasted more sharply with the 1241 invasion, mostly due to the reforms of Béla IV, which included advances in military tactics and, most importantly, the widespread building of stone castles, both in response to the crushing defeat of the Hungarian Kingdom in 1241."

People saying US sould not be in-game are joking (who made the game?) and I'm a very nasty anti-americanist, always planning thread attacks against america. :rolleyes:

And even if saying that Nederland were a major european power is quite an overstatement, neglecting them is quite a joke too. They were a major contributor in destroying the Spanish/Austrian superpower. And then the French superpower. Who's next? Another reason is they are the only one to have lost an entire fleet to a cavalry regiment. It was during Napoleonic wars, if I remind correctly. :lol:
 
How is that interesting? If "10" votes is interesting, what do you consider the "48" votes the Holy Roman Empire has racked-up, blowing away everybody else in the poll?!?!?!

Seems quite clear, an interesting 10 votes for America still pales in comparison to the unity that is the anti Holy Roman Empire vote!
It's interesting because it so flies in the face of the OP's assumption.
 
How can you judge whether we can talk about what civs don't deserve to be in this game?

Because I've read enough of these posts to see how unintelligent they become.

There is no way to measure a Civ's relevance in the game. It isn't just opinion, because people just wave flags without and shred of critical thought.

These threads suck.
 
How can you judge whether an entire civilization deserves to be in a video game or not?

Why did you vote for this poll option then? Hypocritical. I guess you didn't notice this was a public poll... :lol:

Poll Option that PimpyMicPimp chose = I think every Civilization deserves to be in the game
 
It's interesting because it so flies in the face of the OP's assumption.
Meh... you're always going to get the "anti-American" vote... that's not interesting, that's just the way things are. The OP should have included America as an option because there's always going to be some yahoo who thinks of America as a bunch of renegade European barbarians... that just comes with the territory of realizing how many outside America view the US.

The thing is, Anti-American votes or no, it would never be anywhere near the top of "undeserving Civs", so it's kinda silly to put so much heat on such a small piece of the "undeserving civ" pie.

It seems to be a toss-up more between the Native Americans and the Holy Roman Empire... that's where the fire is, and that's what's interesting... me... can't stand the thought of having the HRE in the game when "real civs" like Austria and Poland are left-out... those bums at Firaxis... what were they thinking?
 
Lets face it, the presence of america has bothered most history buffs in civ since the game's inception. everyone of course recognises why they are there of course, for marketing purposes. It has always felt a bit bizarre playing a 'civilization' that one can say started in 1776, being played from 4000BC. The thing about 1776, is that it still feels like modern history, it feels so close to us it is nothing..
but now we have other less deserving civs in the game like the khmer or the holy romans. another poster is absolutely right, the holy roman empire wasnt a civilization at all. it was essentially, an elaborate system of treaties. states joined the HRE, states left the HRE
and the khmer,
if their golden age consisted of ruling half of thailand and thats it, the thai's are probably more deserving of being included.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Empire

ps once civ 400 comes out in say 3000 CE, i think people would be okay with america being included (if it still exists then lol). it is not a god given right of any country to last 1000 years, not many have at all.
 
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