The Left Fails Yet Again

[innonimatu]

This is exactly why the only way to achieve housing for all is to decommodify housing. Homeownership-as-investment and affordable housing are two fundamentally contradictory concepts.

It's sad that here where I live the social housing built by the former dictatorship government are selling for over half a million Europe a unit. The current government, despite being called "left-wing" (and was once considered dangerously so by the powers that be at Brussels) is not building new social housing. The damn fascist dictatorship had a better housing policy than the current governments we have!
This did not have to be so. For some 25 years, 1975-2000 lots of social housing was build by the state and the municipalities. It could be done, a much poorer country at the time was doing it and putting an end to the slums. But after most banking was privatized (after about 1995) houses became a financial asset for the banks and the owners to speculate with, and it was bad to increase the stock because what they owned wasn't going to rise in price as much. So the state's role in building new housing was suppressed.

The root of this evil here: privatization of the banks. Much as Thatcher did in the UK, the result was a society set against itself, greed as a conductor of politics. And now the whole world is hell bent on not just private finance, but on concentrating that finance! in the EU the ECB is deliberately bankrupting smaller banks and creating "european champions". Privately owned, of course...

The will be no solution to housing crisis, and to a number of other social crisis, become private finance is severely reduced in size and scope. We have the solutions: cooperative banks, public banks, building societies, making sure that there is real competition among what is private. What we don't have is the awareness of enough people to use their formal power with democracy to impose a social shift back to this. Because, in many countries, it requires no more than going back to an older, tested and proven, structure on how finance is organized.

 

[Socrates99]

It's sad that here where I live the social housing built by the former dictatorship government are selling for over half a million Europe a unit. The current government, despite being called "left-wing" (and was once considered dangerously so by the powers that be at Brussels) is not building new social housing. The damn fascist dictatorship had a better housing policy than the current governments we have!
This did not have to be so. For some 25 years, 1975-2000 lots of social housing was build by the state and the municipalities. It could be done, a much poorer country at the time was doing it and putting an end to the slums. But after most banking was privatized (after about 1995) houses became a financial asset for the banks and the owners to speculate with, and it was bad to increase the stock because what they owned wasn't going to rise in price as much. So the state's role in building new housing was suppressed.

The root of this evil here: privatization of the banks. Much as Thatcher did in the UK, the result was a society set against itself, greed as a conductor of politics. And now the whole world is hell bent on not just private finance, but on concentrating that finance! in the EU the ECB is deliberately bankrupting smaller banks and creating "european champions". Privately owned, of course...

The will be no solution to housing crisis, and to a number of other social crisis, become private finance is severely reduced in size and scope. We have the solutions: cooperative banks, public banks, building societies, making sure that there is real competition among what is private. What we don't have is the awareness of enough people to use their formal power with democracy to impose a social shift back to this. Because, in many countries, it requires no more than going back to an older, tested and proven, structure on how finance is organized.

That reminded me of an interview Richard Wolff did with Victor Grossman, a former resident of the DDR. It was the first time I've heard an open account of the good and bad of living in East Germany. To be clear, he did not make it sound great, but at the same time not the dreary hellhole we Americans are led to believe. It was kind of interesting. Didn't turn me all commie but sure makes you wonder why homelessness and unemployment are a thing.

 

[Zardnaar]

@Zardnaar, you haven't changed this erroneous, counter-productive, completely imprecise, non-credible, misleading, over-simplistic, and outright farceacle and embarrassing (or should be embarrassing) thread title, nor even addressed my request, with a rational and comprehensive reason as to why and how it make the topic at hand have any respectability and be able to be taken seriously and treated as though it was an educated topic, at all.

I'ma fine with it. Report it to the mods if there's a problem. Mods need a good laugh.

 

[Patine]

I'ma fine with it. Report it to the mods if there's a problem. Mods need a good laugh.

Then you freely admit to abdicating any position in any argument you make on this thread of any respectability, credence, backing, seriousness, education, or substance and admit, fully and honestly, in front of all here, that the thread title, the opening post, and all arguments you've made within are NOTHING but vapid, uninformed, stereotyped, and without any merit at all and should be treated as such and fully dismissed, right?

 

[Hygro]

Man how many synonyms are you gonna stack?

 

[Zardnaar]

Then you freely admit to abdicating any position in any argument you make on this thread of any respectability, credence, backing, seriousness, education, or substance and admit, fully and honestly, in front of all here, that the thread title, the opening post, and all arguments you've made within are NOTHING but vapid, uninformed, stereotyped, and without any merit at all and should be treated as such and fully dismissed, right?

I provided a link in the OP, not my fault reading isn't your strong point.

As I said you can report it to the mods if you feel the need. They're human, could do with a laugh

 

[Perfection]

Man how many synonyms are you gonna stack?

I always read threads backwards so I have no idea what this beef with Zard is but that's some serious Internet business right there.

 

[Patine]

I provided a link in the OP, not my fault reading isn't your strong point.

As I said you can report it to the mods if you feel the need. They're human, could do with a laugh

Ah, the old Internet cliché of, "I provided a LINK. It doesn't matter to who or whether or not it's utter garbage, completely bias, or doesn't really prove anything. I've provided link, so I must be right and you must be wrong." Forgive me if I don't buy that trash. You have discredited any possible argument in this thread by using such a counter-productive and erroneous term in your thread title that attacks a socio-political group that even exist with any meaningful cohesion, definition, or unity - especially as it's portrayed. And it doesn't how many other people use such a ridiculous term to justify your argument. If one sheep or 30 000 sheep walk off a cliff, they've all been foolish enough to walk off a cliff, many of them just following others in herd mentality...

 

[Zardnaar]

Ah, the old Internet cliché of, "I provided a LINK. It doesn't matter to who or whether or not it's utter garbage, completely bias, or doesn't really prove anything. I've provided link, so I must be right and you must be wrong." Forgive me if I don't buy that trash. You have discredited any possible argument in this thread by using such a counter-productive and erroneous term in your thread title that attacks a socio-political group that even exist with any meaningful cohesion, definition, or unity - especially as it's portrayed. And it doesn't how many other people use such a ridiculous term to justify your argument. If one sheep or 30 000 sheep walk off a cliff, they've all been foolish enough to walk off a cliff, many of them just following others in herd mentality...

Who died and made you mod?

 

[Patine]

Who died and made you mod?

I didn't claim to be a mod. Do you see any red or blue text in any of my posts? Or do you believe that ONLY a mod would have the "temerity and insolence" to diligently and waspishly say certain points-of-view by you were incorrect, counter-productive, self-sabotaging, credential-damaging, and distorted and warped the dialogue from the start to specific bad stereotypes, fallacies, and disingenuous viewpoints, and not just accede to your "correctness" after a while when you showed utter stubbornness in your willful ignorance and insistence of terms that could only manipulative and deliberately distorting, but because the error of all other usages had been pointed out clearly to you and refusal to kowtow to the "instant victory of a link" mentioned above?

 

[Zardnaar]

I didn't claim to be a mod. Do you see any red or blue text in any of my posts? Or do you believe that ONLY a mod would have the "temerity and insolence" to diligently and waspishly say certain points-of-view by you were incorrect, counter-productive, self-sabotaging, credential-damaging, and distorted and warped the dialogue from the start to specific bad stereotypes, fallacies, and disingenuous viewpoints, and not just accede to your "correctness" after a while when you showed utter stubbornness in your willful ignorance and insistence of terms that could only manipulative and deliberately distorting, but because the error of all other usages had been pointed out clearly to you and refusal to kowtow to the "instant victory of a link" mentioned above?

The guts of it is if you over promise on things you can't deliver on voters tend to get disappointed.
Rise of Trump for example when Obama campaigned on hope and change and things got worse.
Trump might find out the hard way or any of the Democratic contenders in the primary whose ideas are stupid and they won't work in the time frame they have promised

 

[Patine]

The guts of it is if you over promise on things you can't deliver on voters tend to get disappointed.
Rise of Trump for example when Obama campaigned on hope and change and things got worse.
Trump might find out the hard way or any of the Democratic contenders in the primary whose ideas are stupid and they won't work in the time frame they have promised

SPECIFIC political parties, leaders, or candidates failing on their promises or opportunistically gaining on such failings does not mean such a failure falls in the lap of a socio-political group that doesn't meaningful exist with any cohesion, unity, or real existence. The term is NEVER used in a way that is productive, accurate, helpful, or even remotely concise, but ONLY ever used (as is it's counter-point, "the Right) for uninformed, uneducated, oversimplified rhetorical pablum or bad stereotypes and socio-political slander, or even worse, Fascistic demographic lumping or Stalinistic collective blame, the last two for highly sinister and dystopian purposes. The thread title "the Democratic Party of the United States fails again," is a lot more accurate and concise. Your thread title is no more accurate than "the Man in the Moon is Responsible for All the World's Suffering."

 

[Zardnaar]

SPECIFIC political parties, leaders, or candidates failing on their promises or opportunistically gaining on such failings does not mean such a failure falls in the lap of a socio-political group that doesn't meaningful exist with any cohesion, unity, or real existence. The term is NEVER used in a way that is productive, accurate, helpful, or even remotely concise, but ONLY ever used (as is it's counter-point, "the Right) for uninformed, uneducated, oversimplified rhetorical pablum or bad stereotypes and socio-political slander, or even worse, Fascistic demographic lumping or Stalinistic collective blame, the last two for highly sinister and dystopian purposes. The thread title "the Democratic Party of the United States fails again," is a lot more accurate and concise. Your thread title is no more accurate than "the Man in the Moon is Responsible for All the World's Suffering."

Well if you bothered to read the link the NZ labour party failed. They campaigned on building 100 000 homes with no real way of delivering on that promise. They had to build around 10 000 a year, got a few hundred and then worked out each home was gonna cost around half a million dollars.

So basically they couldn't do it, and even if they could the target demograph couldn't afford the homes anyway.

Left wing populism basically. USA equivalent is the New Green Deal.

 

[Patine]

Well if you bothered to read the link the NZ labour party failed. They campaigned on building 100 000 homes with no real way of delivering on that promise. They had to build around 10 000 a year, got a few hundred and then worked out each home was gonna cost around half a million dollars.

So basically they couldn't do it, and even if they could the target demograph couldn't afford the homes anyway.

Left wing populism basically. USA equivalent is the New Green Deal.

Here's the litmus test to prove your label has ANY validity, credibility, or appropriateness at all, whatsoever. What part in this failure did the Communist Party of China, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, the Revolutionary Communist Party of India, the Bolivarian Movement of Venezuela, the PDS and other former and reformed Cold War-era-Communist Parties in the EU, the ANC in South Africa, the FLMN in El Salvador, the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, FARC in Colombia, Morelos' group in Bolivia, the Communist Party and Workers' Party of Brazil, the Communist Parties of Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos, the Socialist Solidarity Front of Myanmar, the Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party, the Israeli Labour Party, the Global Greens, the Pirate Party International, the Neo-Anarchist Federation, the Fourth International, and numerous other such groups have upon themselves?

 

[Imaus]

That reminded me of an interview Richard Wolff did with Victor Grossman, a former resident of the DDR. It was the first time I've heard an open account of the good and bad of living in East Germany. To be clear, he did not make it sound great, but at the same time not the dreary hellhole we Americans are led to believe. It was kind of interesting. Didn't turn me all commie but sure makes you wonder why homelessness and unemployment are a thing.

If it was just the economics, that would be...'tolerable',, and definitely not anything to aspire to. East Germany, along with the Baltics, were among the most 'well-off' commie nations.

But then comes the Stasi, the Soviet occupation, the KGB, the culture of mistrust as everyone spies on everyone.

I wouldn't trade anything now or change anything now if it meant the Stasi returned. The FBI and CIA and NSA at least monitor in a hands-off fashion until a billion red flags are checked off, and that's because someone literally runs around saying they'll shoot/bomb some soft target. And even then, people slip through; because the three agencies barely work together, have different priorities, and don't get unlimited funding. Try emulating any of the militias we have now in any Commie hellhole - whoops, tautology -. that'll be a sight.

The West has found itself in this mess because they privatized everything and has elevated private wealth growth and GDP growth over living standards and a sort of community-focused or local/small private sector. Even a Social Democrat or Social Liberal or Green focused state can right that, if they're in power for around eight years and have teeth and gall enough to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Socrates99]

If it was just the economics, that would be...'tolerable',, and definitely not anything to aspire to. East Germany, along with the Baltics, were among the most 'well-off' commie nations.

But then comes the Stasi, the Soviet occupation, the KGB, the culture of mistrust as everyone spies on everyone.

I wouldn't trade anything now or change anything now if it meant the Stasi returned. The FBI and CIA and NSA at least monitor in a hands-off fashion until a billion red flags are checked off, and that's because someone literally runs around saying they'll shoot/bomb some soft target. And even then, people slip through; because the three agencies barely work together, have different priorities, and don't get unlimited funding. Try emulating any of the militias we have now in any Commie hellhole - whoops, tautology -. that'll be a sight.

The West has found itself in this mess because they privatized everything and has elevated private wealth growth and GDP growth over living standards and a sort of community-focused or local/small private sector. Even a Social Democrat or Social Liberal or Green focused state can right that, if they're in power for around eight years and have teeth and gall enough to put their money where their mouth is.

Yep, he mentions that as a major negative. Like I said he didnt put it in a necessarily glowing light. He mentions that the repression kept people quiet about their opinions. The Stasi weren't exactly going to round up and imprison anyone saying the wrong things but if you were overheard being critical it could impact whether or not you got a promotion or bonus at work.

It was mostly just interesting to hear a less propagandized version than we're used to.

 

[Zardnaar]

Here's the litmus test to prove your label has ANY validity, credibility, or appropriateness at all, whatsoever. What part in this failure did the Communist Party of China, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, the Revolutionary Communist Party of India, the Bolivarian Movement of Venezuela, the PDS and other former and reformed Cold War-era-Communist Parties in the EU, the ANC in South Africa, the FLMN in El Salvador, the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, FARC in Colombia, Morelos' group in Bolivia, the Communist Party and Workers' Party of Brazil, the Communist Parties of Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos, the Socialist Solidarity Front of Myanmar, the Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party, the Israeli Labour Party, the Global Greens, the Pirate Party International, the Neo-Anarchist Federation, the Fourth International, and numerous other such groups have upon themselves?

It's a term people will understand. Report it to the mods if you feel like it. Otherwise you can't dictate to me how I title my threads.

 

[Patine]

It's a term people will understand. Report it to the mods if you feel like it. Otherwise you can't dictate to me how I title my threads.

What people? Uneducated, simplistic, stereotyping, uninformed, and ineloquent ideological sheep? I don't see many of those on these forums (I won't say none, but not many at all). But those are the kind of people that eat that pablum and misinformation. Those actually educated on, and knowledgeable about, socio-political affairs, who seem to be those you want to draw to your threads, know that it's called a political SPECTRUM, and not a political DICHTOMONY, for a VERY GOOD reason...

 

[Broken_Erika]

I dropped my coffee. My Left hand has failed yet again.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

It's because the left is very good at infighting and has been hijacked by the far left.

on the contrary, it's much rather because "the left", as dumb as this generalization is, has become more and more intoxicated by the neoliberal human centipede apparatus and abandoned all of its formerly relevant goals like unions, classlessness, workers owning the means of production, healthcare and egalitarianism. all we have now is this weird charade that all center left parties engage in where they pretend they're something they clearly haven't been for the last few decades. there is no better example of this than the SPD in Germany. once a revolutionary party almost on par with the KPD, nowadays a dry, empty husk.