The meaning of the word "British"
- Thread starter WillJ
- Start date
No, they don't see the other's as England's back yard at all! They don't see England as being in any kind of political entity.
If you break it down to the counties, you will find those people might consider themselves, for example, more Lancisharian (spelling?) than British.
So it could be that when people clump Brummies and Londoners together as "English", these two groups take one look at each other and can only think... "wtf?"
Possibly, the "English" is diverse a group to be treated as one, and that this differs somewhat to being Scottish or Welsh etc.. I'm trying to be open minded here
As for the capital city, I have already asked myself that question... and the answer, I would not mind one bit... how about having a Parliament in the most central city? Or would that be unfair?
I would have one concern from the perspective of international issues: London is the diplomatic capital of the world and I'm not sure how seperating national politicians from the (foreign) diplomats would affect the sphere of influence... but in the modern era, travelling isn't hard so it's doable.
If you break it down to the counties, you will find those people might consider themselves, for example, more Lancisharian (spelling?) than British.
So it could be that when people clump Brummies and Londoners together as "English", these two groups take one look at each other and can only think... "wtf?"
Possibly, the "English" is diverse a group to be treated as one, and that this differs somewhat to being Scottish or Welsh etc.. I'm trying to be open minded here
As for the capital city, I have already asked myself that question... and the answer, I would not mind one bit... how about having a Parliament in the most central city? Or would that be unfair?
I would have one concern from the perspective of international issues: London is the diplomatic capital of the world and I'm not sure how seperating national politicians from the (foreign) diplomats would affect the sphere of influence... but in the modern era, travelling isn't hard so it's doable.
@ Nico:
What Ireland and Scotland share is the antipathy to England. Perhaps what you mean is that of course it's not reciprocated, because the English are the conquerers.
To which I say, not in the Six Nations rugby they're not!
What Ireland and Scotland share is the antipathy to England. Perhaps what you mean is that of course it's not reciprocated, because the English are the conquerers.
To which I say, not in the Six Nations rugby they're not!
==stormbind said:CurtSibling, I have never deplored any Scotsman!
Infact, I get quite the opposite feeling; that the Scots hate the English and I fail to see what the explanations have to do with either the 20th or 21st Centuries.
On occation, having Great Britain united has served both Scottish & English well in defending their democracy.
I see no advantage is dispanding a union which prevents war between neighbours, and simultanously protects the interests of each.
Fair point I think thou hate is to strong a word , in general its a dislike to "England" as a nation and not its people btw , from a bias media to the pompous arrogance of many of the upper class, a dislike of your royal family, the Imperial and the empire still lives on views, the return of English Nationalism (which btw is not a bad thing, taking pride in your nation might give you confidence to shake of this partnership),
Which btw does favour England particularly lower England and London, our growth and development as a nation is being held back and stifled by a government favouring England., from taxes to house prices we'd be better of on or own.
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defending their democracy.
I see no advantage is dispanding a union which prevents war between neighbours, and simultanously protects the interests of each.[/QUOTE]
Democracy is hardly served when as I stated before a Zero!
Nil percentage of Tory Mp's were return by Scotland, yet we suffered ten F*cking years of tory governments,
and as for "prevents war between neighbours", that is a very stupid comment I don't think a free independent Scotland would suddenly mean a return to our ancient conflict which you used as an argument why Scots hate the English.!
joycem10
Deity
stormbind said:
My statement pretty much sums up all that needs to be said about a reunification of the Republic with the United Kingdom.
It could make sense from logistics, security, economics, geography, ergonomics, geometrics and fung shui but it will not happen.
They weren't strictly speaking conquerors at all!Dr Jimbo said:
Infact, it can be argued that England was conquered being that it came under the control of foreign Kings. Isn't that conquest?
Accademically (diplomatic, financial and logistics perspectives), London is the right place to put the united government, but I can understand that psychologically it is perhaps the wrong place to have it.. and to be brutally honest, if it means that much then I'm all for moving it.
bholed said:
It could and does compete but its still smaller and it would make little sense to change the capital. Perhaps Edinburgh would see an increase in competitiveness but many UK businesses etc would still locate their head offices in London, it would just mean more duplication.
=Dr Jimbo said:
Well maybe many people in your country are not so quick to forget the atrocities and crimes comitted by the English to your country in the past which btw wasn't that long ago, and also feel a kinship to the north were many Irish still hate the British.
In Scotland people may dislike the term Britain, but in Ireland many people have just cause to hate it.
How? Under the current arrangement, Scotland receives subsidy support by S.England where the bulk of the population lives.bholed said:
When that subsidy is chopped off, what will replace it?
How does independence reduce house prices in Scotland? Infact, I think prices would increase around a new political nerve centre.
The democratic systems we have guarantee representation. Just because your preferred candidate doesn't become PM doesn't mean you go without representation.
No guy I ever voted became PM either. Infact, no party I ever voted for won the majority.
I'm not bitter about it, that's the way representative governments work.
Actually, our dear Scottish friend introduced the concept of one group hating another - not I
No. Scotland would not, but history will one day repeat itself, it always does ... and when the British Isles are again threatened, what guarantee will there by that Scotland and England are 100% united in defending one another?
Scottish neutrality in WW2 would have spelled the end of Jews the world over. A tiny example of why we call you British! We love you guys and you hate us for it! Metaphorically speaking.
bholed said:
Oh for the love of ... whatever! GET OVER IT! It's in the past. It was long enough ago for me, and my parents (who aren't young). Get on with your own life instead of harping on about past (not present) injustices. Look at Germany in Europe, or the reconciliation on South Africa. Otherwise you'll be pointlessly bitter all your life, because the events of the past aren't going to change. Sheeess!
stormbind said:Or, it could be other way around. I suppose that wouldl be called English aggession or bribery or something, though
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Correct, thou then it would be called fair English competetion rather than as at the moment were the stack favours the larger partner.
Also will get back to you on the tired old subsidy support theory.!!
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Quote:-
The democratic systems we have guarantee representation. Just because your preferred candidate doesn't become PM doesn't mean you go without representation.
No guy I ever voted became PM either. Infact, no party I ever voted for won the majority.
I'm not bitter about it, that's the way representative governments work.
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Disagree with that maybe you never got my point, The WHOLE of Scotland to a man women and voting teenagers rejected the tory Party we had no Tory Mp's going down south none . The English people voted in the tories and people in Scotland did not,
therefore in my idea of a democratic system, we would as a nation be better served as an Independent nation.
bitter!
you better believe it my country still has the scars to this day, many of our current problems stem from those dark times.
Oh for the love of ... whatever! GET OVER IT! It's in the past. It was long enough ago for me, and my parents (who aren't young). Get on with your own life instead of harping on about past (not present) injustices. Look at Germany in Europe, or the reconciliation on South Africa. Otherwise you'll be pointlessly bitter all your life, because the events of the past aren't going to change. Sheeess
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Easy Jimbo
I'm Scottish not Irish so save the preacher act for your fellow countrymen, Scotland has had its hands dirtied by events in Ireland as well.
My point is if many people in Ireland both North and South still dislike the British and in my opinion they have
a case, maybe when the British finally leave Ireland people may find it easier to forgive.
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Easy Jimbo
I'm Scottish not Irish so save the preacher act for your fellow countrymen, Scotland has had its hands dirtied by events in Ireland as well.
My point is if many people in Ireland both North and South still dislike the British and in my opinion they have
a case, maybe when the British finally leave Ireland people may find it easier to forgive.
I've found that, generally speaking, Scots often rant about injustices of centuries ago to the detriment of current issues. If this is an unfair representation then I appologise, and I see that you're clearly considering the future 
Hypothetically speaking: Let's just say that the EU is formed as a political entity. The German people (now taking the place of the English in your political lives) have just empowered some random party... and the Scottish choice is minimal, which is a rather realistic scenario considering population size.
What would you think that EU?
Hypothetically speaking: Let's just say that the EU is formed as a political entity. The German people (now taking the place of the English in your political lives) have just empowered some random party... and the Scottish choice is minimal, which is a rather realistic scenario considering population size.
What would you think that EU?
I don't see a stack of injustices at all. I see that London is prohibitively expensive and that the average standard of living there is much lower than in Edinburgh.
The wages are very slightly higher, but this does not make up for it and is the result of companies trying to attract employees to London where there are more customers to serve.
How would independence for Scotland affect these things?
The wages are very slightly higher, but this does not make up for it and is the result of companies trying to attract employees to London where there are more customers to serve.
How would independence for Scotland affect these things?
stormbind said:I've found that, generally speaking, Scots often rant about injustices of centuries ago to the detriment of current issues. If this is an unfair representation then I appologise, and I see that you're clearly considering the future
Hypothetically speaking: Let's just say that the EU is formed as a political entity. The German people (now taking the place of the English in your political lives) have just empowered some random party... and the Scottish choice is minimal, which is a rather realistic scenario considering population size.
What would you think that EU?
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The expenditure in England (per capita) grossly outweighs the spending elsewhere in the UK, and the spending in the South East of England grossly outweighs the spending elsewhere in England. Is that fair? ,wages and Salaries are some 16% lower in Scotland than they are in England.
It is a simple fact, attested to by a Conservative Treasury minister (William Waldegrave) in an answer to a question in the House of Commons years ago, that Government revenue raised in Scotland is considerably higher than government expenditure in Scotland. When I can be bothered,I'll try and get figures, maybe tomorrow.
Thou North Sea Oil revenues are difficult to track down! ( now theres a shock , dont call me paranoid!!!) as the UK Government regard these as special resources of the UK (Extra-Regio Territories) and not Scottish, even though the Oilfields are in Scottish waters, are policed by Scottish Policemen and supported by an Infrastructure, at Scottish Ratepayers and Council Tax payers expense. Without financial support from Westminster. Following this convention, North Sea Revenues are EXCLUDED from the allocation of revenues to Scotland!!, Nice one.
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The EU lets worry about getting out the union first !
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