The Netherlands and the East India Company

[Bakspatel]

What is wrong with just being friendly Dutch people and getting the lump sum gold that way? You can make a DoF almost immediately and the Dutch are historically mostly diplomatically neutral.

Well to be more exact that only counted from the creation of the kingdom until the end of WW II, when it held a policy of a continuous neutral position in European conflicts. The Republic fought numerous wars and sought to suppress or destroy competition in (spice) trade. They cooperated multiple times with others such as the English but also fought several times against them.
Fun fact: The Netherlands also supplied weapons to the Americans during their independence war. But the British found out and soon declared war against the Republic.

Within Civ, there's of course the sea beggar that you don't want to waste

 

[Loucypher]

What I think needs to be changed is their apparently weak coastal start bias. At least half the time Amsterdam is founded on a land-locked tile while Spain and Madrid seem to be on the coast 100% of the time.

This I agree with. The Dutch have a Grasslands start bias which is rather annoying, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DutchJob]

DEIC is fine. I say:

More swamps !!!

 

[Scaramanga]

Well to be more exact that only counted from the creation of the kingdom until the end of WW II, when it held a policy of a continuous neutral position in European conflicts. The Republic fought numerous wars and sought to suppress or destroy competition in (spice) trade. They cooperated multiple times with others such as the English but also fought several times against them.
Fun fact: The Netherlands also supplied weapons to the Americans during their independence war. But the British found out and soon declared war against the Republic.

Within Civ, there's of course the sea beggar that you don't want to waste

True, they have to choose between "friends" at times.

For me it's a question of: what did the VOC trade?. Spices. Who's got spices in Brave New World? Indonesia. Use Sea Beggars to take out their Spice Islands no matter how far they are from you. Portugal and the Dutch will have to be differentiated for historical and gameplay purposes. I've read the differences in their activities in the East described as "Portugal came to control, the Dutch came to possess". With the presence of a unique resource it makes the Dutch UA even more relevant. It's almost like Indonesia was designed to be taken over .

The East India wonder should maybe "East India House" since that reflects an actual physical wonder.

 

[Tyrvos]

I just think it was weird they left out any UA's specifically aadressing naval trade. The Dutch were known for this. They traveled throughout the globe, their cargo ships tended to have more capacity, and the Fluyt was a cargo ship able to effectively defend itself. It's just odd that they kept an outdated UA with them. It would be like a civ in vanilla having a UA to address religion and not changing it when religion actually came out in G&K.

 

[PhilBowles]

This was discussed in numerous threads. Overall public conclusion is:
- Mongolia is good as it is.

Yes, it's good as it is, it's just that the UA doesn't represent anything obviously Mongol (although now they get a bonus when attacking Samarqand...). The Arabian UA was good as it was, but the new one is much more identifiably Arabian in feel.

- Germany and Netherlands need changes.
- Russia, Japan and America need buff.

I wondered about Russia - good call on Japan.

Overall, I'm not sure whether Russia needs a buff but, again, could be represented more characterfully. America is fine.

Once again, it could probably represent the "manifest destiny" doctrine in a more characterful way than reduced tile costs (maybe lower unhappiness for settling new cities on the home continent?), but as with Mongolia there's nothing wrong with its power level.

I just think it was weird they left out any UA's specifically aadressing naval trade. The Dutch were known for this. They traveled throughout the globe, their cargo ships tended to have more capacity, and the Fluyt was a cargo ship able to effectively defend itself. It's just odd that they kept an outdated UA with them. It would be like a civ in vanilla having a UA to address religion and not changing it when religion actually came out in G&K.

Portugal's UA specifies naval international trade. In fact the Portuguese UA is basically exactly what the Dutch should have had, with Portugal getting something more closely-tied to exploration.

 

[CanaDutch]

Let's create a petition for the Dutch UA to get an extra small bonus related to naval trade in the same vein as England's extra spy that Firaxis could maybe add during a Fall patch .

 

[JSMCAG]

Let's create a petition for the Dutch UA to get an extra small bonus related to naval trade in the same vein as England's extra spy that Firaxis could maybe add during a Fall patch .

+50% Range for Cargo Ships? It's similar to Arabia's, so it shouldn't bee too hard... I can see someone modding that!
(Or maybe not so much, since Cargo Ships already have such a big range - maybe +25% or something)

 

[Ryoga]

A petition seems quite exaggerated for something that you can get through mods.

 

[CanaDutch]

+50% Range for Cargo Ships? It's similar to Arabia's, so it shouldn't bee too hard... I can see someone modding that!
(Or maybe not so much, since Cargo Ships already have such a big range - maybe +25% or something)

Since as mentioned Dutch cargo ships were known for having a large cargo space and having the ability to defend themselves, perhaps a simple gold bonus for naval trade routes, enemy ships pillaging Dutch trade ships receive some damage, or just an extra trade ship for the Dutch when they hit navigation is appropriate?

A petition seems quite exaggerated for something that you can get through mods.

Yes but mods still don't work in multiplayer right?

 

[Ryoga]

Yes but mods still don't work in multiplayer right?

Let's make a petition so that they can then

 

[CanaDutch]

Let's make a petition so that they can then

That would mean everybody would need to have the mod, and I doubt many people can be bothered to enable a mod that just boosts the Dutch UA, unless you only play with friends and they don't mind humoring you .

 

[Tyrvos]

Portugal's UA specifies naval international trade. In fact the Portuguese UA is basically exactly what the Dutch should have had, with Portugal getting something more closely-tied to exploration.

Portugal's UA, from any sources I've read, just says international trade routes. If something has limited it to only naval trade routes, I haven't seen it yet.