The new crazed

[bonedog]

I much prefer the new crazed over the previous version. I hated having my units turn barb and suddenly start attacking me... at least now they'll get killed fighting someone else.

I do like Bumbar's suggestion of a limited duration for Crazed, so that affected units aren't running around aimlessly forever when there's no one to attack. And actually, I kind of wish Enraged caused you to become Crazed if the unit goes a set number of turns without attacking something, rather than at some random interval. This gives you an incentive to go around continuously attacking things with the Enraged unit (to keep it from going stir-crazy).

 

[Fafnir13]

5. Finally, of what use now is the Law I, Loyalty spell? I can see nothing.

Thank you.

I believe all it does now is prevent domination and command from having any effect.

 

[Sarisin]

I believe all it does now is prevent domination and command from having any effect.

I guess that's my point. How often does the AI use Domination or have units with higher Command promotions? I've never seen it.

Maybe for human vs. human it has some use, but against the computer IMO nada. A good spell has become pretty useless I think.

 

[Caradoc]

I have no problem with Enraged, but not being able to neutralize the Crazed promotion practically guarantees a short life for the unit. Perhaps there could be a promotion that lets you cure a Crazed unit after it gets a couple of victories.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still haven't downloaded a patch since the enraged change so I can't speak for that version, but I can tell you before then Loyalty never had any effect on protecting units from Domination up though patch h. I don't think this has been changed

I'm thinking it may be best to make the Loyalty spell remove the Enraged promotion from units that already have it, thus returning them to your control.

 

[JDexter]

I really like the new Crazed/Enraged system, just had it happen to me for the first time (and since I forgot about the change I was really afraid to loose a city until I noticed that I can't attack the Enraged unit ).

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I still haven't downloaded a patch since the enraged change so I can't speak for that version, but I can tell you before then Loyalty never had any effect on protecting units from Domination up though patch h. I don't think this has been changed

I'm thinking it may be best to make the Loyalty spell remove the Enraged promotion from units that already have it, thus returning them to your control.

that would be nice. loyalty used to be a very useful, if situational, spell. but with the new crazed+enraged implementation, it's just useless.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

I would like the new system as well, but there needs to be a way to counter it. A game of rock and just paper can be no fun without the scissors!!! Its a good mechanic, and it would force you to research a remedy and spend resources and thus balancing this one out... At the moment loyalty is only useful for stopping Stephanos from converting your units.

 

[Sarisin]

I still haven't downloaded a patch since the enraged change so I can't speak for that version, but I can tell you before then Loyalty never had any effect on protecting units from Domination up though patch h. I don't think this has been changed

I'm thinking it may be best to make the Loyalty spell remove the Enraged promotion from units that already have it, thus returning them to your control.

I agree. Otherwise, why even have the Loyalty spell.

In my game the AC is at 87 now. I just cannot possibly imagine the fun that awaits me when a good percentage of my units become enraged with the appearance of the Avatar of Wrath and they all wander off.

Has anyone had this happen yet?

 

[kumquatelvis]

Chaos mana caused my Great Engineer to start enraged, which means I never got to use him.

 

[Kyroshill]

In my game the AC is at 87 now. I just cannot possibly imagine the fun that awaits me when a good percentage of my units become enraged with the appearance of the Avatar of Wrath and they all wander off.

Has anyone had this happen yet?

Before the change, I played a Last Days game where I was on my way to a (rare) conquest victory. Since my continent was entirely under my control I had no more than 2 defenders in any city on that continent.

What kept happening is that one of the two defenders would go enraged without me noticing. Then, without warning, he'd go barb and slaughter the other defender, capturing the city. Must have happened 8 times in different cities. Talk about micromanagement.

Needless to say.... I like the new enraged

 

[Fafnir13]

I would like the new system as well, but there needs to be a way to counter it.

A counter would certainly be nice. Preferably one you can use before they go running off hell-bent on whatever. Anything that cures it would be next to useless if you can only use it once you've chased the unit down.

 

[Methuselah]

Thing is, having a cure would risk making enraged near pointless again. Before this change was made, it was just case of of "oh look, he's got the crazed promotion. Let's just cast Law 1 and be done with it." Now you actually have to think about it.

 

[Fafnir13]

Not "be done with it" it was "Sweet! A random movement and attack bonus!" Of course, this could only be achieved by researching divination (I think...) and having a spare mana node around unless you happened to be one of the few civs to start with law mana or had the proper shrine.
It was nice that way. Something once feared and dreaded becomes a useful boon with the proper application and expenditure of resources.

 

[Sarisin]

I'm sorry, but the more I see of this new crazed/enraged setup, the less I like it.

I think AC 90 still has its problems with the Enraged units it creates.

Then, in my current .40k game I built the Baron. When he kills a living unit a Ravenous Werewolf is created sometimes (seems less frequently than before, though).

In the past, the Ravenous Werewolf would get the Enraged promotion and you could either (a) use Loyalty to keep him from turning into a barb unit (b) win a combat to keep him from turning into a barb unit or (c) hope that he doesn't turn until either (a) or (b) occurs.

Well, you can definitely throw all that out now.

We know (a) doesn't work because Loyalty does nothing.

And, you don't get a chance on (b) or (c) because as soon as the Ravenous Werewolf is created out of the combat, it takes off. You have zero chances to do anything with the unit.

Then, it becomes a matter of luck, although the bad AI creeps in too. For example, I saw the Ravenous Werewolf right next to a barb Goblin - an easy kill. But rather than kill the Goblin, it bizarrely moved away only to be killed later by a Bear.

Up to this point I had 6-7 Ravenous Werewolves produced. Four were killed in their first combat. I have two Blooded Werewolves, and one Great Werewolf that upgraded in his second combat!

So, things are happening and I AM getting Werewolves, but having it turned over to luck rather than any player strategy is a little disconcerting.

I'm afraid based on what I've seen so far, I miss the good ole days of Crazed/Enraged units.

 

[Dux_]

We want the old enraged Besides, disbanding enranged units with bad promotions was useful to get free xp.

 

[Fafnir13]

Not only xp, but with the right promos you might get the unit back too. Normal units would certainly be a stretch, as command III would be the best you could do unless you also happened to get the mad king's crown.
For ravenous werewolves at least, I would always have a beastmaster/ranger around to smack sense into any puppies stupid enough to think they could do it on their own.

 

[Ranos]

I like the new enrgaged. Units that are crazy should not be under anybodies control. It also adds flavor and excitement about not knowing what a unit is going to do.

I do think there should be a way to counter it AFTER it happens. Probably a priest spell called 'Calm', has a 1 radius effect and removes the enraged promotion from any unit. You would still have to chase the unit down but the Priest's 2 movement should help that.

I also think that enraged units should be able to attack anybody, whether you are at war with them or not.

 

[Sarisin]

I like the new enrgaged. Units that are crazy should not be under anybodies control. It also adds flavor and excitement about not knowing what a unit is going to do.

I do think there should be a way to counter it AFTER it happens. Probably a priest spell called 'Calm', has a 1 radius effect and removes the enraged promotion from any unit. You would still have to chase the unit down but the Priest's 2 movement should help that.

I also think that enraged units should be able to attack anybody, whether you are at war with them or not.

Have you built the Baron or had AC 90 in any of your games yet?

You have a good idea there with that Calm spell. I really don't mind the new crazed/enraged, but you need something to counter it and hoping your out of control unit can win a battle (assuming there are even available targets) is just dumb luck.

Add an element of strategy (such as you suggest) and I am OK with it. Why, didn't we used to have a spell called Loyalty that did pretty much the same thing?

 

[Verdian]

I am still a fan of having Asylums make it so units with the Crazed promotion don't become Enraged. It could also make it so it removed the Enraged promotion if one of those units entered the city. Even better, have a unit on a city with an Asylum be able to cast a spell that sucked in all units within a tie or two that are Enraged, called "Gathering the Mad" or something, to represent the workers of the Asylum rounding up the crazy people.