The new crazed

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yep, that should definitely be posted in the bugs thread

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Unless it has been changed in the most recent patch, loyalty does not counter this form of rage. They loyally just scamper off into the woods to smell the flowers or flirt with the Dyrads.

 

[Senethro]

I really don't like the current implementation. For fun I set up a small production city with an Asylum to just pump lunatics. They've been incredibly useless because they get killed before they can do some damage because they wonder all over the map.

However, they could be made useful if you could direct them, initially at least. If Lunatics came with a straitjacket and some handlers that let you carry them along with your main army to the territory of your desired opponent. They wouldn't be able to attack until you pressed a button and let them off their leash. At this point they come under AI control and will have no shortage of targets.

I'm also slightly suspicious that the new Crazed is applying the angry promotion to other units, but haven't been able to confirm.

 

[xienwolf]

You MIGHT be able to direct your lunatics by using the function to set a Rendevous Point for your cities. I believe while you have the city selected you right click on the map, it causes a yellow circle to appear when done right, and all units produced in the city will move to that location before requesting new orders from you. I'd have to check out the logic in the SDK to see if this would override the Enraged AIAutoControl, but if it does win out, then you can control where your rage STARTS at.

 

[Fafnir13]

Would setting up orders ahead of time also circumvent rage or does the AI counter previously given orders? I'll probably look into that myself if I get any enraged units tonight.

I'll also have to try out the stack dragging thing. Sounds like another fun unintended consequence of the change.

Side note: thanks to the team for making that one specific change to the lunatics. Nice to know you still care, even if it's not the total fix I'm looking for.

 

[giddion]

I like the new enraged a lot.... but....
It does not go and attack animals, like spiders etc... Just does random running around...

i would like it to attack a friendly neighbor or ally at random, maybe their can be another % for that. It kind of makes sense. Maybe it could trigger an event that brings you to the negotiating table or directly to war. Something like...
Your enraged <UNIT> has attacked our neighbor, they are outraged and are demanding... X and Y etc...
1. Comply with their demands <peace and no relation loss)
2. partial compliance, <peace with relation loss>
3. ignore them <war>

 

[ChinaBlue]

In the Momus scenario enraged was absolutely NO FUN.
And I can imagine it's the same in other games where executing a tight strategy is the most important thing. Everyone in the right place, hit end turn, ready to attack and...oh...my carefully promoted units ran into the hell surrounding Dis trying to kill a stack of a hundred demons, no chance the promo wears of after battle..'cause they'll be dead, game over.
Slowcar said it and I'll say it again: I hate it when my units do things I do not control.
And even more so when the alternative dictator is brainless.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

Do I understand it right that the crazed promotion is only a negative promotion for a human player and has no effect on AI units [cause they are controlled by the same AI!]?

If yes then that is a reason to change it. It is just not fair.

Haven't played with it yet just because I wanted to finish Moumus without half of my army going loco. I can imagine that this will make mutation a useless spell other than a MP games were someone doesn't know about the effect and allows you open borders.

 

[Brokenbone]

I like the idea posted someplace above of a "handler" unit for Lunatics, or maybe even anyone with the Crazed promotion. Possibly low defense and easily assassinated. Same would go though, for Asylums, in my opinion. That is, keep "Crazed" dudes on garrison duty someplace with an Asylum, and maybe they stay there.... y'know, in their cells!

Maybe rather than a handler unit though, it'd be a handler promotion, not something too easily granted, like through the Loyalty spell. Maybe anyone in their stack who has the Law II promotion or Mind II (hey, if you can charm your enemies, why not charm your crazy armed forces) promotion, i.e. a full blown Mage?

I did find though that shelving crazed units way out of sight of enemies, they didn't run off, I didn't experiment with this too much though. Had a scout with enraged who I stuck deep, deep in the heart of my empire and he stood there the whole game, though early on (after he got crazed in a dungeon) he was chasing after anything that moved, I had to drag him back as soon as I could...

 

[xienwolf]

Enraged units will attack anything within 3 squares of themselves if their odds of winning are 20% or better.

If there isn't such a battle available then they will:

1. Guard a city if they are standing in one and are the strongest defender
2. 50% chance to attempt pillaging anything on their tile or the adjascent ones
3. If you have Raging Barbarians enabled then they will:
   • Attempt to pillage anything within 4 tiles
   • Attack any city within 3 tiles with a 10% or better chance to win
4. Attack any adjacent city with a 15% chance or better to win
5. Pillage anything within 3 tiles
6. Attempt to get on a boat
7. If not a hero unit, move to a city within 2 tiles and guard it if the city was gained within 10 turns or has fewer than 2 AI trying to guard it
8. Grab an adjacent goody
9. Choose the nearest city to retreat to

So basically, if you are more than 4 tiles from your border, they shouldn't go anywhere much.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Sense I never complain (ahem) , I must admit I will be using world builder a good bit to get rid of that promo, and never build anymore lunatics. I could live with this and use it to my advantage if the priest's spell Cure Disease would get rid of enraged. I mean it is a mental illness so cure disease should be able to remove it...

 

[Dux_]

It's no fun using lunatics anymore Anyway we can get a spell to counter this?

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

It's no fun using lunatics anymore Anyway we can get a spell to counter this?

Yea I would build about 30 of them and park them in my nearest rivals lands (open boarders are great) and just let them go barbarian and wreck havoc without having to declare war. Give them mobility and they would usually move away from the pack without attacking my other lunatics. More like a Svart. way of fighting though IMHO. Not anymore though...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I actually haven't downloaded a patch since the new crazed was introduced (I'd made some changes I didn't want to loose...and last night somehow got rid of the interface and can't get it back so I will be downloading the next patch and starting over) so I haven't tried yet, but I imagine that it should be too hard to change the Loyalty spell so that it causes enraged units to return to your control. Just making it remove the enraged promotion from units in the stack might be enough, making it an XML only spell. Otherwise, it shouldn't be too hard to change the units' AI with a simple python call.

 

[phnx0221]

I really like the new crazed. I didn't really enjoy playing with the lunatics very often anyway, as there already was enough of a risk of them turning into barbarians for me to care to use them.

I love the fact that your units don't turn barb anymore, that they'll instead be controlled by AI. It makes having high powered mages going crazy much easier to deal with, as if they're going to die by aggressively attacking, it's not more of a loss than if they were to turn barb.

I also really like the extra flavor it adds to the game. It's kind of neat to see some crazed unit wandering around chasing after barbarian units. Besides, the crazed part goes away after an attack, and while it does come back periodically, again, it's neat to see your unit randomly start wandering off.

Much better than having some high powered unit turn on you. I like it.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still think it might be better if these enraged units were always AlwaysHostile, so they would get into fights with rivals.

I'm really thinking that Berserkers need to be Crazed too.

 

[notque]

I'm really liking the new enraged.

 

[Sarisin]

A couple of questions about this that came up in my current game as the Sheaim.

I was playing around with the Mutate spell and probably shouldn't have.

1. I gave Larry, one of the Stooges (HN), the Crazed promotion. Sure enough, after a few turns off he went until he came upon a barb Bear and killed it. I had control of him again. This happened at least 6-7 times until he picked a fight with Bear that had another one on an adjacent square. Before I got control back, he was killed.

When does this Enraged promotion go away?

2. I also gave it to an Archer defending one of my cities. While Larry was departing 6-7 time, this unit never left. It seemed strange to me.

Random again, or maybe HN units are affected more?

3. I got a Ravenous Werewolf and managed to kill a Goblin next turn. He upgraded to a Blooded Werewolf and lost the Crazed/Enraged promotion.

Does this work differently for some reason than the example with Larry above?

4. I mutated a Reveler than came in through the Planar Gate. It got the Enraged promotion and left IMMEDIATELY. No waiting. No chance to go for that first combat.

Is this correct? If so, you really don't have much of a chance dealing with this.

5. Finally, of what use now is the Law I, Loyalty spell? I can see nothing.

Thank you.

 

[Bumbar]

I love the new enrage, but it should come with a timer. If enraged unit can't find an opponent to fight for 5 turns or something like that, it should calm down and come back under your control.

 

[Marnok]

Or you have to send the military to track it down, but that just makes it angrier and stronger, and eventually you have to trick it into being sent to another world but the plan goes wrong and the unit returns even angrier and with a horde of fanatical followers.