The new crazed

[Breez]

I think I would be interested in a buff that counters the Enraged... but has a 1% chance of wearing off each turn, meaning from time to time you would have one of your calmed enraged units go wandering off until calmed again.

Enrage = + movement, + attack, loss of control
Calm = - movement, - attack, Regain of control, 1% chance of wearing off.

Meaning while calm you would not gain the benifits of Enraged (makes sense)

Instead of making Calm replace an exsisting spell and wasting mages to do it, make a new building that adds calm to all units in the city. (Asylum is taken, but something similar to that) This building would be able to make Disiple Units similar to the low level ones that spread religion, however they can also cast Calm on all units in thier stack.

The combination would allow some control over units in cities and provide units that could chase down escapees.

 

[Ranos]

I think calm should be a spell you get with medic 2 and with spirit 2. It shouldn't replace any existing spells just be an extra one. That way you have two different options to get it.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The simplest mechanism for Calm would just be to remove Enraged, not replace it with another promotion that negates its effects. Such a promotion would require SDK work to let it give you back control, while removing Enraged would be one of the simpler xml-only spells. Since the unit would still be Crazed it is only temporary.

 

[Sarisin]

The simplest mechanism for Calm would just be to remove Enraged, not replace it with another promotion that negates its effects. Such a promotion would require SDK work to let it give you back control, while removing Enraged would be one of the simpler xml-only spells. Since the unit would still be Crazed it is only temporary.

I guess that is better than the way it is now.

However, I fear something similar to Sanctify and Hell Terrain where you have a number of Adepts/Mages who are constantly running around dealing with effects which can only be addressed temporarily.

It would depend on how long it takes for a unit to go from Crazed to Enraged. My experience in the game to date is that units don't stay Crazed very long and get Enraged.

It also would depend on your game situation. If you are just turtled up, you need only have a number of Adepts with Calm spread around your civ ready to do their thing. However, taking Crazed units beyond your borders for exploration, war, etc. would not make much sense as you would constantly be chasing down units that turned. So, you just pray your strong offensive units do not get Crazed, and if they do, they stay at home.

Managing a group of Crazed Werewolves could be done until they get their first kill. So in that case, I would hope the Crazed would be dealt with by using Calm, and then, once they get their first kill (assuming there are targets around) the Crazed/Enraged would be removed, but not temporarily when the Werewolf is promoted to Blooded.

 

[Imuratep]

Ok, MC is definitely right about making it a spell, though I liked the idea of a lunatic pumped with drugs that you can release on your enemies once the effect wears off . After reading Sarisins posts I have thought of another way to solve the problem, because he is right it is a lot of micromanaging.
So my idea is:
Medic2 enables a spell that cures enraged and medic3 enables a spell that cures crazed. There are very few units that have medic3 if my memory is right so it would not make crazed useless.

 

[Jules.lt]

I think that Balseraphs and OOs should have some incentive to keep people crazy, so they should have special ways to handle crazy people (and be able to do something with these#%$! lunatics)

- crazy people don't get enraged while in a city with an asylum
- asylums allow the creation of "handlers": crazy people don't get enraged while on the same square as a handler (or maybe you can just give that ability to cultists?)

I don't know the Balseraphs well enough to say what could be appropriate...

 

[notque]

Why would the Balseraphs want to handle crazy people?

If you are playing as them, you are accepting that occasionally a freak may be worthless, or a guy may run off.

 

[Jules.lt]

As I said, I don't know them that well.
Thematically, I just didn't feel that Balseraphs would consider "crazy" to be such a negative trait, that's all... rather an ambivalent one.
Maybe give the "handler" ability to one of their units, to steer those loonies in the right direction?

As for non-Balseraphs non-OOs, I think that letting medic2 units cure enraged and letting medic3 units cure crazy is the way to go.

 

[notque]

That's what I'm getting at though. They don't consider crazy to be negative. And thus, don't have any use for handlers.

Why handle something you are quite content with already? Why bother steering them in the right direction?

They'll come back once they kill someone. Relax.

 

[Schmoe]

I don't have any comments on whether I like the new Enraged mechanic or how it should be changed yet - I need to play some more before I might have some ideas on that.

I will, however, share a story about an Enraged warrior of mine.

The Sheaim were long suspected to have a secret breeding program, where orphans and undesirables were subjected to dark rituals and unspeakable programs designed to enhance their effectiveness in the field of battle. Whether or not that was true of Krovus is a matter of conjecture, but when he first arrived at the army training camp there was no doubt he was a little bit Crazed. You could tell by the wild look in his eye, his disheveled, motley clothing, and his penchant for taking long baths in the ice-cold waters of the Sorgel River. That, and the several instances where he cannibalized fallen sparring partners. Of course, in the Sheaim army such qualities didn't earn him a discharge. Instead, they earned him promotion and accelerated training, and he was quickly put into active duty garrisoning Os-Gabella's capitol city.

Everything seemed to be going great for Krovus. He had plenty of work tracking down criminals, and if some of those criminals never made it to the prison, well, no one really cared that much. Then one day, he snapped. In a mindless rage he grabbed his sword and went screaming for the hills, and nobody would get in his way to try to stop him.

For some time Krovus simply wandered the hills around the capitol, occasionally walking through the city gates to scream at locals and eat some dogs before running back into the wilderness. At first there was a great uproar as the citizenry demanded protection, but as the years went by his visits became less frequent, and eventually they stopped altogether.

For many years Krovus simply wandered the borders of the Sheaim empire. But when word reached the empire that a barbarian village had sprung up within a few month's march, he set off toward the barbarians. When he reached the village, he raced headlong into it, heedless of personal harm, slaughtering orcs by the dozens. Finally he came to his senses, surrounded by a host of orc warriors and covered in gore. After feasting on the orc bodies, he quietly retreated back to the empire to nurse his wounds and reflect on the experience he had gained.

No sooner had Krovus finished recuperating, then the vile Ljosolfar declared war on the Sheaim. Upon hearing the news, madness once again took hold of Krovus, and he headed into the wilds toward the elven borders.

The legend of Krovus had grown in the Sheaim cities, and when Os-Gabella heard that Krovus was marching alone on the Ljosolfar, she ordered a great host of warriors to follow in his footsteps.

The Sheaim army followed his tracks, coming upon the remains of a Fawn and several companies of Elven warriors, but he always was just beyond their advance. Finally, the army met Krovus outside of a fledgling Elven city. Fighting had been fierce, and their numbers had dwindled from the raids of Fawns and warriors in the great forests. They gathered to assault the city, but luck was not on their side, and several companies died in the fruitless attempt. Licking their wounds, the army turned around and headed back for their empire, to equip the new Bronze weapons that reports said were now available.

The retreat did something to Krovus, and he snapped. He deserted the army column and turned back into the woods. An elven defender tried to dislodge the crazy, solitary, engine of death from the woods outside the city. The elven Fawn wounded Krovus badly, but he too failed. In a flash of lucidity, Krovus tried to fortify himself and heal, but madness once again took him. He threw himself against the elven city and, against all odds, slaughtered every last inhabitant. In his rage, he burned the city to the ground before coming to his senses. By now, his many wounds were catching up to him. Krovus once again tried to fortify himself in the woods, hoping to buy time for the Sheaim reinforcements to reach him. But madness struck again.

So Krovus dashed into an Ancient Forest, awoke a Treant, and died.

The End.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

[..]the crazy, solitary, engine of death [..]

Aww, the little engine that could, how adora...masacrable

Nice writeup

 

[notque]

Great writeup!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that was truly epic

 

[Sarisin]

That was a nice story!

Unfortunately, that's usually how your Crazed/Enraged units end up - dead. Whether at the hands (branches?) of a Treant or some other unit, they run off to their deaths.

 

[Fafnir13]

Alas, poor Korvus. We knew you too little...
Ya know, the crazed promotion sounds half way fun and entertaining when put in that light. I can almost imagine that such images filled the minds of our beloved team when they made this change.
Unfortunately, we're trying to play a strategy game here. Units like Korvus, while entertaining, are also quite annoying. All the xp that Korvus monopolized by his mad dashes went to waste when the random number generator decided he would become enraged not once, but twice in quick succession. There's certainly more than enough chance already involved with the game without throwing in even being able to control your units.
Ah well. Still hoping it gets majorly changed before too much more time goes on.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Hmmm....I know most of you would probably hate me for suggesting it, but I think that having Adventurers random be controlled by the AI instead of you could be quite thematically appropriate. Lorewise, most of their adventures are while there are AWOL.

 

[notque]

I agree. I like it because I don't think I'm playing a rigid strategic game that I have to do exactly perfect. I'm playing a game. So I love the new dynamic.

If I want to play perfect, I'll go play someone that isn't insane. There are choices to avoid it. If you play Keeylan or someone with Chaos mana, you should be less than perfect. With the potential for value (as I've had crazed have value)

 

[Schmoe]

Thanks for the comments all, I'm glad you liked the story. As I was playing it became more and more unbelievable, so I had to write it down

At any rate, the cannibalize mutation definitely helped Krovus live as long as he did, and that single warrior tallied something like 4 warriors, 2 fawns, and 1 razed city. So there was good (cannibalize) with the bad.

I personally don't mind the infrequent Crazed mutation on my units when I'm playing one of the Chaos mana civs. Of course, I've yet to have a Paladin start Crazed.

On some level, you have to accept that even though you are playing a strategy game, there is an element of chance involved. The RNG could hit a streak where you lose 4 consecutive 95% battles. Your starting location could suck. And so on. The game is not chess or checkers, where all randomness has been removed.

The mutations from Chaos mana are an element of chance that the player actually determines if it will be a factor (aside from Armaggedon...), by his choice of civilization and use of mana.

That said, I'm also a firm believer that the potential reward should be worth the potential penalty in all decisions of risk. In this case, it's possible that the potential of losing control of a key unit to madness far outweighs the advantages that Chaos mana provides.

For those who really don't like the new mechanic, I have a question. If those units that would start with Crazed instead just died at creation, would that be better or worse?

 

[Zechnophobe]

Hmmm....I know most of you would probably hate me for suggesting it, but I think that having Adventurers random be controlled by the AI instead of you could be quite thematically appropriate. Lorewise, most of their adventures are while there are AWOL.

Woulda sorta make the Grigori unplayable though wouldn't it? I think a better way to show this effect, is to have adventurer's occasionally go 'on quests' and dissappear for a while. (Or get held in your capital or something). Come back with random good promotions (Like Valor, Blitz, Magic Resistence, etc). That way you still control them, as it were, but also sometimes they have their own will.

 

[Fafnir13]

For those who really don't like the new mechanic, I have a question. If those units that would start with Crazed instead just died at creation, would that be better or worse?

I'd delete them. Chances are they won't stay under my control long enough to use them as proper fodder (proper being that they attack and die whilst another unit is ready to attack when the defender is weakened) and any victories is xp my useful units don't get. The only time I wouldn't delete them is if an approaching army is threatening the town and I need every potential defender possible.