The new patch seems to have arrived

[Licinia Eudoxia]

Ah, I never traded luxury resources for money, only for other luxury resources, so I guess that would explain it. I haven't played with the patch yet. To be honest, I never have money trouble unless I'm expanding very very quickly (like cranking out multiple settlers at a time), or I've been rush-building/buying units.

In a game last night, I had over 1k gold coming in a turn, and 38 turns of Golden Age.

Thought I would also mention that every time I use Steam's "Verify the integrity of the game cache" option, I receive the result that one file failed the validate, and the game then downloads a 22.1mb file.

I've repeated this a number of times, so I would guess that there is something wrong involving that.

 

[Civ'ed]

HOORAY FOR PATCHES!
No more playing on duel sized maps I hope

 

[Toady]

The game was Gold > Happyness > Research > Production and they patched in more % for wealth production in cities?

Nerf production and make Gold even more important at the same time?

Sorry for being so pessimistic... but when is the Buy Research option going to get patched in?

 

[PieceOfMind]

It's sort of bad that it sounds like people who sprung for the deluxe version got the least TLC :-(

Anyone know the genesis of the 25% gold build? I hadn't seen more than just passing complaints (and not really complaints, people pointing out that building gold is pretty tame).

Strictly speaking for myself, I guess -- I think money is too powerful and this adds, not reduces the problem.... If they had this in sulla's walk through, I imagine they might just quit building things at all and just have every city build gold, buying when they want something.

Others have noted diplomacy (gold trades) being nerfed... so perhaps it balances.

I know it's just out, but will be interested to read what people think.

I don't have any old games worth finishing, so perhaps I'll dust off V myself tonight and try a bit.

The game was Gold > Happyness > Research > Production and they patched in more % for wealth production in cities?

Nerf production and make Gold even more important at the same time?

Sorry for being so pessimistic... but when is the Buy Research option going to get patched in?

They did this because it was a lot more efficient to build units and disband them for gold (e.g. scouts). Later in the patch notes they also added that disbanding units produces less gold now, so two changes have been made to address the one problem (of disbanding units being more efficient than building wealth).

 

[Jharii]

The game was Gold > Happyness > Research > Production and they patched in more % for wealth production in cities?

Nerf production and make Gold even more important at the same time?

Sorry for being so pessimistic... but when is the Buy Research option going to get patched in?

Selective vision?

Trading was nerfed. I use trading much more than I use Wealth. Also, workshops, et al have had 1 hammer added.

Overall, it sounds like productioin was given a buff and wealth was given a nerf.

 

[aznin]

Well, haven't had the chance to extensively review the changes yet, but I have just played 60 turns without a single crash. Just for that, I'm happy happy happy.

 

[Toady]

They did this because it was a lot more efficient to build units and disband them for gold (e.g. scouts). Later in the patch notes they also added that disbanding units produces less gold now, so two changes have been made to address the one problem (of disbanding units being more efficient than building wealth).

I understand what you are saying, but merely performing the first part of the solution would have been enough. Now it's like saying "ok guys no more exploiting the disband mechanic for gold... now you can skip it entirely and just produce the gold directly".

Civ 5 has a problem with production being at the bottom of the list... way down there. Making it so you can make more money with the 25% wealth production change doesn't help production nor does it help make Gold less of an important resource.

 

[MAntoninus]

Definitely see that the inter-turn delay is gonzo, that's a nice bonus.

I lined up some forces and 'invaded' the Ottoman empire and their AI killed three of my units with focused fire in the first turn. Rifles ended up being in front of their cannons, the garrisoned units took shots - looks promising.

Hopefully they can get the glitchy/UI stuff out soon and focus on balance.

I've been trying to enforce anti-ICS by myself, by limiting myself to only liberating city states and only maintaining (with gold) allied status with one. This forces me to usually manage my own food and do things I expect I'll have to do when things are less out of whack.

 

[Toady]

Selective vision?

Trading was nerfed. I use trading much more than I use Wealth. Also, workshops, et al have had 1 hammer added.

Overall, it sounds like productioin was given a buff and wealth was given a nerf.

I don't consider trading with the incompetent AI to milk him as part of wealth. Trading (with the AI) isn't what makes wealth the supreme resource it just compounded the problem.

A plus one hammer for workshop accompanied by a 15% increase in wealth production and no reduction in hammers required for units and buildings does very little if nothing to balance this.

Massing wealth will still easily remain the top priority for any strategy followed as it still is the most flexible responce to any and all problems that your civilization might come up against.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I understand what you are saying, but merely performing the first part of the solution would have been enough. Now it's like saying "ok guys no more exploiting the disband mechanic for gold... now you can skip it entirely and just produce the gold directly".

Civ 5 has a problem with production being at the bottom of the list... way down there. Making it so you can make more money with the 25% wealth production change doesn't help production nor does it help make Gold less of an important resource.

I don't see it that way. If production is down there, you're not normally going to want to use that production to make a few cents here and there. The way it was before, "Wealth" was totally unusable--it made like for or five gold a turn with large cities, in times where that amount of gold was worthless.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm having a CTD while trying to load old saves Did they broke save compatibility again ?

Using Deluxe Edition , if that matters :/

 

[cmddata]

I understand what you are saying, but merely performing the first part of the solution would have been enough. Now it's like saying "ok guys no more exploiting the disband mechanic for gold... now you can skip it entirely and just produce the gold directly".

Civ 5 has a problem with production being at the bottom of the list... way down there. Making it so you can make more money with the 25% wealth production change doesn't help production nor does it help make Gold less of an important resource.

Civ 5 production really follows an exponential curve as you reach industrial/modern era. Having a 15+ population city on a river with a factory, railroad, workshop, windmill (if not on hill), hydro plant, and solar plant (if next to desert) has very powerful productivity.

Civ 4 had a much more linear growth aspect to production. Civ 5 feels to me like it is a closer model to history in this regard.

 

[zonk]

They did this because it was a lot more efficient to build units and disband them for gold (e.g. scouts). Later in the patch notes they also added that disbanding units produces less gold now, so two changes have been made to address the one problem (of disbanding units being more efficient than building wealth).

Hooboy....

I'm not sure this is a wise move -- there are an absolute ton of exploits out there right now. I don't think it's wise to start chasing individual exploits that have multiple dimensions - it's painfully obvious there is a lot of balancing to do beyond just lopping off individual exploits.

I think they should focused on individual, single dimensional exploits (RAs pop with DoWs - which is in and which is perfectly well and good to lop out).

Better they should have just nerfed the heck out of unit selling/disbanding gold and left the gold build alone for now....

They eliminated a true exploit - but it seems they've just made ICS even worse.

I guess I shouldn't be judgmental about a patch I haven't even played yet... but still - if people recognize build/disband is an exploit, it's easy enough to just tell them "don't do that if you think it's too great an exploit until we have a chance to properly balance gold in total". This would seem to add to the imbalance for those of us who think the game is still far too "buy centric" even without exploits... I guess I can not build gold, but then -- what do you set a city to do if you don't want to build a building or unit?

 

[ohioastronomy]

I understand what you are saying, but merely performing the first part of the solution would have been enough. Now it's like saying "ok guys no more exploiting the disband mechanic for gold... now you can skip it entirely and just produce the gold directly".

Civ 5 has a problem with production being at the bottom of the list... way down there. Making it so you can make more money with the 25% wealth production change doesn't help production nor does it help make Gold less of an important resource.

The 10% option was so stingy that including it was pointless. You were much, much better off simply paving over everything with trading posts to get gold as opposed to using the wealth setting, and that difference is now hopefully less extreme.

 

[JimMac99]

Thought I would also mention that every time I use Steam's "Verify the integrity of the game cache" option, I receive the result that one file failed the validate, and the game then downloads a 22.1mb file.

I've repeated this a number of times, so I would guess that there is something wrong involving that.

I have exactly the same issue, I wonder what that means

 

[CrazyCelt]

Any thoughts on the patch?? Is the game play any better??? issues resolved?

 

[zonk]

I understand what you are saying, but merely performing the first part of the solution would have been enough. Now it's like saying "ok guys no more exploiting the disband mechanic for gold... now you can skip it entirely and just produce the gold directly".

Civ 5 has a problem with production being at the bottom of the list... way down there. Making it so you can make more money with the 25% wealth production change doesn't help production nor does it help make Gold less of an important resource.

Right.... Interestingly enough, that little gold hoarding exploit is one that I hadn't seen or used, but even without it -- I felt there was too much gold and too much buying.

Unless I was building the pink spaceship - I generally go with ICS because it's the smart move. As a part of this, I generally have a ton of 2-3 pop cities building science and gold, with a focus on production.

I know, I know... I should really play to be sure -- but it looks like this is going to take me in the other direction (less balanced and more weighted towards game mechanics I found annoying).

I think I'm going to hold off installing the patch to see if the AI enhancements are worth it.... so I guess I'm now interested in hearing that.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I understand what you are saying, but merely performing the first part of the solution would have been enough. Now it's like saying "ok guys no more exploiting the disband mechanic for gold... now you can skip it entirely and just produce the gold directly".

And that's bad why?

Increasing the gold from hammer rate to 25% did not completely overcome the problem, and disbanding scouts was still more efficient. If they had increased, it to 40% or more, building units just to disband would no longer be viable but obviously they felt that 40% was too good a conversion rate. I tend to agree too.

Civ 5 has a problem with production being at the bottom of the list... way down there. Making it so you can make more money with the 25% wealth production change doesn't help production nor does it help make Gold less of an important resource.

These are not likely objectives they were trying to achieve. What they wanted to fix were:
1) It being more efficient to disband units after building them than to simply build wealth. This ensured tedious micromanagement for those trying to optimise their game, just like the lack of beaker overflow on techs.
2) Disbanding units providing too much gold or building wealth at 40% conversion is too good. Either way, reducing the disband gold and setting wealth to 25% conversion rate covers both objectives.

 

[Petek]

I have the Deluxe version and the new patch. I can load a save file that doesn't include Babylon. That was a game created by someone else (I was bug testing) and so may not have been created with the Deluxe version. I then tried to load a game that I created. Got a runtime error/CTD. Used Steam to verify the integrity of my local cache. No help. Deleted my local cache files. No help. Since I can't load the game, and since I don't remember whether or not Babylon was present, there seems to be two possible explanations for this problem:

1. Games created with the Deluxe version that include Babylon won't load in version 1.0.0.62, or

2. No games that were created with the Deluxe version will load in version 1.0.0.62.

Does anyone have a save file that was created in the Deluxe version that they are certain doesn't include Babylon?

Also, one minor change that's not in the release notes: I'm no longer prompted whether to start the game in DX11 or DX9 mode. It automatically starts in DX9, which is correct for my system.

 

[Toady]

The 10% option was so stingy that including it was pointless. You were much, much better off simply paving over everything with trading posts to get gold as opposed to using the wealth setting, and that difference is now hopefully less extreme.

Now you can pave off everything with trading posts AND get more gold from the meager ammount of hammers you were already collecting.

A simple Workshop +1hammer change isn't going to make production a valid tactic vs Trade Post Spam and GOLD massing. It needs to be followed by more meaningful tile improvements on yield AND adjustment of Hammers required for production.