The NRA Finally Responds With Its "Meaningful Contributions"

[Formaldehyde]

Right. Because everybody knows that elementary school children really need an armed police man to be there whenever they are. After all, isn't that why every single elementary school already has one?

Back when I went to public school, even most of the worst ones didn't have any police on campus. There wasn't a single school in my county that had one. The entire state of Florida likely didn't have a single one.

When I went to college, we had unarmed campus cops to specifically keep armed police from having a presence on campus except when needed.

All this is much like 9/11. It is just another excuse for the real "Orwellian" authoritarians to exercise even more control over our daily lives.

 

[Patroklos]

You must feel very insecure that some mass killer might decide to target a facility with heavily armed guards at every entrance.

I think it speaks volumes that even the US military doesn't want its own soldiers to be armed except when they feel it is necessary to do so.

Except hundreds to thousands of them are armed on every base at any one time. The issue isn't them being armed. If you are hell bent on a massacre would the source of the gun matter to you?

Thanks for proving once again hou have no genuine concern for stopping gun violence, it's just an excuse for your normal tired axe grinding.

Right. Because everybody knows that elementary school children really need an armed police man to be there whenever they are. After all, isn't that why every single elementary school already has one?

Most do. Even more don't have shootings. By more I mean pretty much all, 99.9%.

Apparently you feel the security of your fresh produce is more important to you than that of children. Whatever floats your boat Forma, but again more proof preventing gun violence means nothing to you.

BTW, in 2009 68% of grade schools already had cops or dedicated security guards

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-armed-police-after-connecticut-massacre.html

There are 93,000 grade schools in the US.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/overview04/tables/table_2.asp

 

[peter grimes]

Thanks for proving once again hou have no genuine concern for stopping gun violence, it's just an excuse for your normal tired axe grinding.

[snip]

Whatever floats your boat Forma, but again more proof preventing gun violence means nothing to you.

Well, if you're honestly interested in preventing gun violence then you'd be calling for severe restrictions on gun and ammo purchases, heavy taxes on them, and a national registry and tracking system.

source: http://www.vpc.org/studies/moreguns.pdf

the common focus on gun deaths as a marker to illustrate America’s “gun problem” obscures an alarming trend. The number of persons who suffer nonfatal gunshot injuries―that is, who are shot but do not die―has risen over the same period. As graphically demonstrated by the chart below, this means simply that more people are being shot by guns every year. In other words, America’s gun problem is getting worse, not better. More guns means more shootings.

advances in emergency services―including the 911 system and establishment of trauma centers―as well as better surgical techniques have suppressed the homicide rate. They concluded that “…without these developments in medical technology there would have been between 45,000 and 70,000 homicides annually the past 5 years instead of an actual 15,000 to 20,000.”4

One question that remains unanswered is whether advances in care will outpace advances in gun lethality as the gun industry continues to militarize the civilian market with highcapacity semiautomatic pistols, assault rifles, and high-caliber sniper rifles.10
“Many of the victims now have multiple gunshot wounds…,” then-District of Columbia police chief Charles H. Ramsey observed in 2003. “The criminals also use high-caliber, high-powered weapons.”11

 

[downtown]

BTW, in 2009 68% of grade schools already had cops or dedicated security guards

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-armed-police-after-connecticut-massacre.html

There are 93,000 grade schools in the US.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/overview04/tables/table_2.asp

There is a potentially big difference between cop and security guard though, in training, pay, and whether they have a live firearm.

Given the legal restrictions on teachers ability to break up fights, everybody school probably SHOULD have some kind of security guard, but that may not mean an armed guard.

 

[Patroklos]

Nope, none of those things are required, they are just the go to solutions for authoritarian such as Forma who live in a world of hysterical fear.

Also, none of the three things you stated would have had any impact on Columbine, VA Tech, or Sandy Hook. Your solutions need to have some relevance to the problem you are trying to stop.

There is a potentially big difference between cop and security guard though, in training, pay, and whether they have a live firearm.

True, I would be happy to see some drilled down statistics on the matter.

Given the legal restrictions on teachers ability to break up fights, everybody school probably SHOULD have some kind of security guard, but that may not mean an armed guard.

Sorry DT, I brought that up already but apparenty any armed or simply uniformed pre sense in school is just going to turn our children into little Eichmanns bent on authoritariant fascism.

In any case, what do you think the price difference is in providing the other 32% of schools with security vice enforcing a gun ban/registration over 310,000,000 firearms and 100,000,000+ citizens.

I would simple use the resources from drug decriminalization savings, but that's just idle fantasy

 

[Patroklos]

DP, please delete

 

[Formaldehyde]

Thanks for proving once again hou have no genuine concern for stopping gun violence, it's just an excuse for your normal tired axe grinding.

I take it the words "irony" and "hypocrisy" mean nothing to you.

My "normal axe grinding" is usually just the opposite. In case you didn't notice, I am typically vehemently opposed to "Orwellian" authoritarianism while you seem to usually have no real problem with it much of the time. It is only in rare situations such as this where I feel it is necessary for the state to exercise more control instead of less for the welfare of everybody.

You see, I am actually opposed to the amount of gun violence in the US while you don't seem to care about it much at all. You are only interested in solutions that you think won't directly affect your own supposed "rights" to own firearms that only have one actual purpose: To quickly kill numerous human beings in the most legally effective way possible.

BTW, in 2009 68% of grade schools already had cops or dedicated security guards

You might want to take a closer look at your "facts":

In 2009, the latest year available, 68 percent of schools had security guards or assigned police officers, up from 54 percent in 1999, according to an Education Department survey of students, 12- to 18-years old.

Elementary schools are less likely than high schools or middle schools to have police on their grounds, principals, trade groups and safety experts said.

I don't know many 12-18 year-olds who still attend grade school. Do you? Even many middle schools and high schools have yet to decide that an armed police officer is required.

Why do you think so many educators are vehemently opposed to this? Aren't they the ones who are supposedly in the most danger? Why do you seem to be more scared and paranoid than they are?

 

[Patroklos]

Yes commandant Forma, 68%. Just like the link I posted and you so helpfully quoted for everyone says.

Does anyone know how many of the recent school shootings did or did not have a SRO on hand?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I even bolded it, yet you still can't comprehend the article stated all schools attended by 12-18 year olds, instead of elementary schools as you claimed? That 32% of middle schools and high schools apparently still don't even have a security guard?

And the person who is far more libertarian, far less authoritarian, and doesn't spend his life in the military is the "commandant"? What were you just saying about "Orwell"?

 

[downtown]

In any case, what do you think the price difference is in providing the other 32% of schools with security vice enforcing a gun ban/registration over 310,000,000 firearms and 100,000,000+ citizens.

I would simple use the resources from drug decriminalization savings, but that's just idle fantasy

The problem, I guess, is who would be responsible for paying for it. Paying for an armed security guard will have to come out of local school district budgets, and at ~60K of expenses a pop per guard per building (if we decide we only need one per building) is not an insignificant amount of money. That means a district would have to increase property taxes (unpopular) or fire a teacher/take money away from programming (a bad use of resources in my mind).

I assume that a gun database, while waaaay more expensive, would be more spread out, expense wise?

I'd trade decriminalizing pot and taking that enormous state-level expense and applying it towards schools any day though. I think I've finally been convinced.

 

[JollyRoger]

Tax bullets and guns to partially fund it.

 

[peter grimes]

Tax bullets and guns to partially fund it. generate a surplus and discourage abuse.

I like this way better

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Chris Rock already presented the solution.

“You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.
Yeah! Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... S---, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’
And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your f------ head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’
So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.”

 

[GhostWriter16]

I've heard that one second hand before.

Still no, but it was funny.

 

[MobBoss]

Right. Because everybody knows that elementary school children really need an armed police man to be there whenever they are. After all, isn't that why every single elementary school already has one?

Back when I went to public school, even most of the worst ones didn't have any police on campus. There wasn't a single school in my county that had one. The entire state of Florida likely didn't have a single one.

When I went to college, we had unarmed campus cops to specifically keep armed police from having a presence on campus except when needed.

All this is much like 9/11. It is just another excuse for the real "Orwellian" authoritarians to exercise even more control over our daily lives.

You mean when you were a kid, there were assault weapons available, but you didnt live in fear from someone attacking your school?

Hmmm. What changed? Wasnt the assault weapons. They've been around a long, long time.

 

[Patroklos]

Man, I just noticed all that Nonsense he just edited in behind our backs.

 

[peter grimes]

Man, I just noticed all that Nonsense he just edited in behind our backs.

what are you talking about?

 

[Patroklos]

Forma edited whole paragraphs into his posts after they had already been directly replied to.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

what are you talking about?

Nonsense. With a capital N

Forma edited whole paragraphs into his posts after they had already been directly replied to.

Oh my God!

I demand immediate resignations!

 

[JollyRoger]

Did he lock the new paragraphs from being replied to?