the one big issue: Terrain graphics don't fit

[poncratias]

I see only one real issue with this wonderful mod: the terrain graphics.

Especiaslly "scrubs", "rocky","desert" and "barren" terrain.

These just stand out visually and don't blend in any way to the rest of the map, making it look like a patchwork carpet rather then landscapes.

Don't you feel the same?


right now i'm trying to tone it down by changing the mapscript i'm playing with so these terrains won't be used by the game.

Could we have some kind of option for this? choosing wether or not using the new terrains in our games?


I would like to try and overwork them (i'm working as an illustrator), and to make them blend better, look better. i've made a small mod for Civ V's trading posts before: clicky
(although i'Ve got much work on me right now, so don't know if i got time for this anyway...)

You just have got to tell me where those texture files are hidden?

edit: on a sidenote: are those terrains really needed? Do they have any real purpose or just "more is better"?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I see only one real issue with this wonderful mod: the terrain graphics.

Especiaslly "scrubs", "rocky","desert" and "barren" terrain.

These just stand out visually and don't blend in any way to the rest of the map, making it look like a patchwork carpet rather then landscapes.

Don't you feel the same?


right now i'm trying to tone it down by changing the mapscript i'm playing with so these terrains won't be used by the game.

Could we have some kind of option for this? choosing wether or not using the new terrains in our games?


I would like to try and overwork them (i'm working as an illustrator), and to make them blend better, look better. i've made a small mod for Civ V's trading posts before: clicky
(although i'Ve got much work on me right now, so don't know if i got time for this anyway...)

You just have got to tell me where those texture files are hidden?

edit: on a sidenote: are those terrains really needed? Do they have any real purpose or just "more is better"?

There is an alternate terrain mod here which tries to blend the terrains better.

The terrain files are stored in the LST.FPK file. You need PakBuild to unpack it.

More terrains means that we can aim at better environments including animals in the right place.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm going to voice defense of the new terrains as being, imo, one of the most brilliant additions to the mod yet! It completely relieves the boring repetition of vanilla terrains and makes most cities more or less more balanced as it seems you simply cannot get a perfect nor completely horrible position anymore (with the exception perhaps of the deep arctic territory where I feel that permafrost is being given a bit too harsh a terrain value) - this is a good thing.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Thanks Thunderbrd. And each terrain do have their own unique stats from each other. For instance Lush gives the best food, rocky gives great hammers, desert hives desert damage while tundra gives arctic damage. And terrain like barren give nothing (as the name imply)!

Even if they looked all the same their stats would still give different values, movement speeds and other special stats.

 

[Menzoberranzan]

desert hives desert damage while tundra gives arctic damage.

I saw this in a video of V18 or V19, but I have never experienced terrain damage in any game. Is there an option to turn this on and off that I may be missing?

And I want to not, I think the OP is not stating that the additional terrains are bad, but that the graphics and color choices may need some work.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yes its under the BUG menu under the C2C tab.

 

[Menzoberranzan]

Thanks, I will cjevk it out.


Sent from my M865 using Tapatalk 2

 

[rightfuture]

I'm going to voice defense of the new terrains as being, imo, one of the most brilliant additions to the mod yet! It completely relieves the boring repetition of vanilla terrains and makes most cities more or less more balanced as it seems you simply cannot get a perfect nor completely horrible position anymore (with the exception perhaps of the deep arctic territory where I feel that permafrost is being given a bit too harsh a terrain value) - this is a good thing.

Grouped areas should have more contrast than individual tiles.
I love the new terrains and feel that they are also brilliant and and welcome changes to the civ experience, (I would love to see some more, yes please), but I understand the desire to create a more blended look. I think the two terrains styles (w/ alternate pack) could be blended a little so there is less contrast and more consistency through the tiles, so they look like one area instead of patchwork, but yet are visibly different transitions as well. The coloring has too sharp a transition. I do like the soil color differences if they were more distributed and better grouped. The AND mod and the perfectworld f script, when I 1st played it before C2C came along, was a breath of fresh air because it did a good job of simulating consistent regions, like a plateau with an area of hills. I like slight local and regional land feature distinctions and variations. Like trees grouping together or an area with swamps, or mangroves. Terrain should be slightly distinguished by area grouping patterns and graded transitions (sometimes). Individual tiles should not be completely different (radical transition) from all surrounding tiles (depending on the size of the map of course).

A solution may come from looking at what ties areas together in patterns.
Climate, vegetation, and grouped terrain features should have a slight role and could provide some terrain consistency. (disasters like volcanos, floods, shifting rivers, hurricanes, tsunamis, could give a lessor more temporary tie-in character / variation to gameplay. A la Sim City)
Latitude, longitude, rainfall, or moisture, tectonics, and slight terrain feature grouping (land of small lakes, river delta, mangrove swamp, glacier area, rainforest hotspot, canyons, beaches, sinkholes, mud flows, bogs, lava flow, geothermal area or hot springs, grouped forest, snowed areas, flooded areas, burned areas, varied disaster terrain, non-uniform wastelands,etc.) that are in patches, not a by single disjointed tiles, would define a transition to a new type of terrain, yet give some local flavor. It could just as easily be a area of mountains, forest, plains, rivers, desert, or lakes.

 

[rightfuture]

I also think tectonics on maps like perfectworld are nice, but could be improved. I think that map scripts should lay vegetation correctly.

I think there should be a slight drought/ rainfall in-game Climate mechanic that lightly shades the terrain and slightly changes vegetation growth/die-off, turn to turn. Drought and rainfall affect human culture throughout; whole civilizations have been stopped in their tracks by drought. Even the middle of the Sahara was forested and supported civilization in human history. There is much evidence that water sources, climate, and food changes had a major impact on the progress of Civilization. They killed cities and moved whole cultures like the Maya and the Egyptians, They forced migrations and ended empires and dynasties: Easter Island deforestation, American Dust Bowl, Chernobyl, the island of Santorini, Cretan culture displaced by earthquakes, etc. Climate is a big deal. This could tie nearby sets of tiles together. Mountains could stop rainfall, fertile areas could develop rainforests, or dry out. over time or all at once. With varying frequency.

 

[rightfuture]

Another idea that could tie terrain tiles together.

-Consistent Rainfall could be simulated by a slight greening of tiles, or changing of dirty terrain over time (dust to mud). The snow line defines tree type, at altitude and latitude over time. Snow buildup could be a slight terrain overlay of transparency and white. Soil color could be altered by moisture levels (though some are of mineral nature). If terrain colors could be adjusted, without having to create new graphics, the tree color could just be altered a little as it was more north or south. Lush in the tropics, whiter in the arctic. To go a little further, slight color tweaking and palette shifts could change regions, and even simulate weather and seasons.

-Or A second set of alternate tile graphics. snowy trees, tropical forest, brown desert vs tan, could be laid down in different areas with the right map scripting. Or the different types of desert could have different bonuses, fertile, vs barren, dune vs rocky, etc and be a different terrain altogether. That way no reddish brown soil, is laid next to light colored areas.

-Ultimately I think it is worth it to figure out Climate change, rainfall, and vegetation.
This might be hard to code into C2C and take time, but worth some time as a modmod project that gets innovated as people figure it out. The key breakthrough might be in learning how to display temporary terrain changes, without a complete overlay map of semi transparent tiles. A algorithm could sweep across the map once a turn, and do an overlay of a graphic on only a limited number of tiles. Basic weather simulation has been done with fractal graphics in a single sweeping linear piece of code (not much different than a one item tectonic map script like laying a single feature like mountains, except that it slightly changes each turn). The graphics could be semi-transparent, so you could see the underlying terrain through them, or fog that obscures units. For each type, only one graphic could be used at first for size constraints. Instead of a whole map, only the tiles changed, could be stored in a array for size: let's say 10 tornadoes cross the midlands, there could be a group of variables that is only 10 tiles big, that store the individual locations(x,y), to be checked against a limited group certain effects, events or movement each turn.

This could open up visual and map based, weather and disaster events greatly, without wrecking performance.

 

[poncratias]

-edit-

 

[Baleur]

I just think it would look and feel alot better if there was some hardcoded limit, like say 2-3 tiles of the same type next to eachother.
This would help with the patchwork feel where you see Barren, Salt Flats, Desert, Muddy all in one big multicolored square.

Perhaps tie it into what they are too.... So for instance, Desert and Dunes could mix a bit more, as well as muddy and jungle. But Barren would have to be a fairly big area to prevent these splotches of black everywhere.

This is why i generally love playing with "Very Soft" in the climate transition setting on the Planet Generator mapscript. But i don't know if that affects the new tiles or not, it doesn't seem to help much.