The pre-AFSNES I.

[Kal'thzar]

Also, very cliche - does no one every go for a suzerainity around here? a place in the sun? Limited objectives? No its always "grab eveything, crush, conquer nah nah gurgh"

don't be silly, I spent a turn getting arabs to invade me. All the gains I made up to that point got stripped away....

But I do love my cavalry.

 

[LittleBoots]

Sorry to see that Dachs. I did not betray you, but with things as they are, I do not think I am breaking my word to do the following.

FROM: Hierotyrannos of the Athanoi
TO: The Tartessi Iron-Men

It seems that the Good God deems us young in the ways of Kingdoms. We will serve in your Great Kingdom That Reaches Across the Sea if you will leave us to our own. We will accept your Tartessi laws if those in our lands must submit also to ours. We will maintain your roads through our land and keep them free of bandits if you build them. We will fight ferociously in your armies if you tax us lightly in other ways. We will live faithfully if you leave us to our ways. We will never worship any but the Good God, nor forget the language of our fathers.

Leave us our land and our people, and we will help you build your Empire.

 

[Insane_Panda]

TO: Hierotyrannos of the Athanoi
FROM: Tartessos

The Tartessian Principate sees fit to recognize the independent sovereignty of the Athanoi tribes, so long as they recognize the superiority of the Principate in foriegn and military affairs. Furthermore, we will agree to lessen the tax-burden of the Athanoi tribes, and allow your men to fight alongside our armies, though we do not require Athanoi to directly enter into our service. We will extend our infrastructure to your lands, but we will allow you independence if you hold us not as enemies, but as benevolent protectors and allies. Tartessos no longer seeks war.

 

[LittleBoots]

Agreed.

(insert clever diplomacy)

 

[Insane_Panda]

OOC: Sorry, Dachs. It seems we are destined to fight against eachother . My conquest here was not out of personal dislike, but rather out of neccessity for Tartessos. And frankly, I was suprised to even succeed. However, do know that my fighting you here was not based on any personal motives.

 

[shortguy]

Also, very cliche - does no one every go for a suzerainity around here? a place in the sun? Limited objectives? No its always "grab eveything, crush, conquer nah nah gurgh" .

I thought I had pretty limited objectives; didn't help me any.

 

[das]

And frankly, I was suprised to even succeed.

If its any consolation, your first two attempts failed very miserably. To have the Romans even more lucky would've been too much of a stretch.

 

[silver 2039]

Also, very cliche - does no one every go for a suzerainity around here? a place in the sun? Limited objectives? No its always "grab eveything, crush, conquer nah nah gurgh

Sacking Pataliputra was a limited objective?

 

[das]

Kaitar's objectives and Disenfrancised's objectives might vary.

 

[Flavius Aetius]

Also I was wery surprised because Tarsessos won,he was seriously defeated by enemies and he passed trought a great civil war...

 

[Israelite9191]

@Israelite: Well you were stuck between three rocks and a hard place, chances of survival were low without prostrating yourself.

I realise that. My plans had been further colonialism leading up to another mass exodus and the reestablishment of Israel further into exile.

Take heart from the fact that Judaism will always have a place in India .

More than you know. Oh, and just to be sure, what nation(s) are you playing this turn?

Talmud Mitzrayi? This TL shall be very interesting.

Very much so. I plan to expand on the TTL Jewish theology.

Niklas, the entire state of Axum was in essence a Jewish rebellion. D`mt was not Jewish and had fallen to Nubia, Axum was the Jews taking over. i'm sure that Nubia is killing Jews there anyways, to prevent further rebellions. If not,....

I'm sure your right. The children of the Nile are demonic in their ways.

However, the likelyhood of the collapse of the Nubian Empire seems high. The geography of the Sudan and Ethiopia are incredibly different and distinctly seperated while the cultural heritage of Ethiopia very profound. I would see this as almost certainly causing the gradual reemergance of an Ethiopian identity, which would in turn reach into its regional past and thus glorify the Aksumite and D'mit empires, allowing for the reemergance of Judaic culture and religion. The TTL development of Nubia will be very interesting to see.

 

[Insane_Panda]

THE RISE OF THE TARTESSIAN DOMINATE​

By the first century B.C.E, it was becoming clear that the Tartessian Empire was not what it had once been, in terms of wealth, power, or glory. Through its rather long history (for Tartessos had existed far longer than most other powers) it had gone through already two or three (if the "true" demarchy is to be considered separate from the demarchy and the principate) different forms of government, and throughout these transitions had been racked by civil war and internal dissent. However, against all odds, Tartessos as a whole soldiered on, and with the reign of Haponthios, the nation seemed once again on the ascendant, as Italia was conquered and power centralized in the hands of the Princeps, who, for all intents and purposes, was an absolute dictator. However, though the Principate was able to stamp out the demarchatic inefficiencies of the Tartessian government, it also fostered its own problems. For one, the position of the Princeps was never clearly defined, and initially, he was viewed as something of a superior dictator-general, first among equals. However, as time passed, and as power grew more centralized, the Princep's power grew to semi-divine status, though due to an unorganized process of succession and the competing mechanisms of the highly beaurocratic government, the Princep never attained the level of reverance or power as compared to his counterparts in the east. It was common, upon the death of a Princep, that no less than three candidates would arise as "legitimate" successors - one from the military, one from the Sophetora, and one from the former Emperor. Whereas external enemies all failed in attempting to destabilize or destroy the Empire, the endless series of civil wars or internal rumblings in the later days of the Principate nearly did a very good job. Agricultural output - once unrivaled in the Mediterranean - declined heavily as redistributions and war tore up fertile fields. Factional intrigue proliferated at the very heart of the government, and efficiency dwindled. Even technologically, the empire fell behind, as the riches of the orient fueled the growth of Karung, turning it into a formidable power, probably as great or even greater than the Tartessian principate. As trade stagnanted, so too did internal cohesiveness - the population, though still rather large, began to decline, and after civil war after civil war, any semblance of cultural unity almost vanished. All in all, by the beginning of the first century B.C.E, it was clear that Tartessos was either going to have to pull itself up by the bootstraps, or end up drowning in its own excess and decadence.

---​

At the end of the second century and the beginning of the first, the Empire seemed to be in a state of near anarchy. Regional Optimos actually had more power than the Princep in dealing with the actual management of the Empire, and generals occasionally annointed themselves as Emperor of small regions, or even of Tartessos as a whole. The last Princep, Ouphoureios, was a gluttonous fool, enamoured with the pleasures of the flesh and incapable of actual rule. His advisors, who promised to manage the affairs of state for him, ended up embezzling the state, costing the treasury dearly and contributing to the financial crises of the era, and as the treasury collapsed, so too did the pension funds for soldiers. This would prove disastrous to the Principate.

Initially, as troops were informed that they would not be able to be properly reimbursed, mutiny was spreading not against the state but instead against their generals. Haponthios, in his centralization of power, appropriated the duty of paying soldiers to the generals, rather than the state, who had handled the land pensions during the Demarchy. This was done in order to secure the loyalty of conservative warlords during the formation of the Principate, who demanded that they be given command of their own troops in return for recognizing Haponthios as their leader. So the troops, devoid of funds, took to arms against not Ouphoureios, but against their commanders. The Tartessian army, purportedly the most organized and professional in the world, nearly destroyed itself from within.

Along the Pyrenees, however, as an angry army swarmed their commander's camp, the general by the name of Arganthos confronted them, boldly holding only a sword. Raising his sword, the men fell silent, and in a rousing speech, declared to them that if he could sacrifice himself to Tigranus in order that his men be paid, then he would, but that due to the philandering of the politicians in Tartessos, no money was to come. If the men wanted their money, they must take it, he declared - to thunderous chants of support. Princeps! Princeps!, they declared. And thus, another, final, civil war began. General Arganthos, declared Princeps by the army of the frontier, advanced south, to the heart of Iberia. Ouphoureios, finally roused to action, assembled an effete army of noblemen and peasant-boys, drawn immediately into conscription. Arganthos, in contrast, had an army of hardened veterans, yet was considerably outnumbered by the levies of the Emperor - yet the navy, which could either make or break this war, remained neutral, prefering to wait out this civil war and the corrupt Sophetora, allowed significant leeway under Ouphoureios, supported their Emperor. A massive confrontation seemed inevitable as Arganthos's army entered the gates of Kaelpolis [1] to an ecstatic, joyful throng. Outside of this war, however, some looked on, worrying for the fate of the country. Ouphoureios and Tartessos as a whole had become decadent, but was civil war the answer? Would not civil war simply take us back further, they asked?

---​

Fortunately, their questions would never be answered. Ouphoureios, throughout the campaign, had been complaining about chest pains, and one morning, as their trek accross the hills of central Iberia, the Emperor fell off his horse, rolling along for some distance until he hit a supply wagon. Immediately, his retainers began scouring his will, searching for the next Emperor. Unfortunately, Ouphoureios was not one to plan ahead, and there was no successor in his will. The army stopped, and immediately the court began deliberations on who would succeed the departed Princep. Meanwhile, word quickly reached Arganthos, who decided that the time to attack was now, regardless to his army's state of readiness. Rallying his cavalry and light infantry, Arganthos swiftly moved across the countryside, stealthily avoiding the Imperial scouts. Then, as the sun set, his army charged the Imperial positions, sweeping across their camp as the imperial council convened to decide their Emperor. The levies broke almost instantly on the sound of a charge, and the court was trapped. Arganthos, sensing perhaps that the future of the Empire must be a pure, unadulterated break from the past, surrounded and set fire to their tent, destroying the previous court in one swoop. As the battle ended, the remaining bulk of his army cought up, and as one, they marched south, finding the gates of the Imperial capital wide open.

The days of the Principate were numbered. Arganthos entered Tartessos itself to find the entirety of the Sophetora prostrated before him, declaring their undying loyalty and offering the crown of the Princep to him. He accepted their loyalty, of course, yet denied their offer of the crown. Instead, marching up to the Palace of Tigranus [2], and sacrificing a bull with outstanding omens, he was declared Dominus, rather than Princeps. "Lord", rather than "the first". The principate was officially over, and instead, the Tartessian Dominate came to power. Many Sophets, seeing the Principate end, also sensed the end of the Sophetora, and commited suicide. The rest stood in fear, for the soldiers now began to clamour for their pay.

To mark the beginning of his new reign, and to mark the complete break from the past, Arganthos began the trial proceedings against a majority of Ouphoureios' court. However, most on trial were already dead - having been killed in battle. Yet their wealth and estates were very much alive, and having otherwise no way to pay his soldiers, Arganthos began aggressively prosecuting the families of the desceased, aswell as several prominent members of the Sophetora. Sensing possible resentment and rebellion from the legendarily snobbish and fickle Tartessian populace (of actual Tartessos), the Army flooded the streets, eager to put down any dissenters as they knew their compensation was rapidly coming (the navy had since declared its loyalty to the Dominos, and the remaining colonies easily submitted, as the fleet ensured loyalty throughout.) The trials then proceeded in peace, if not honesty. Most prosecuted were found guilty, and their estates and wealth stripped from them. Those who were not desceased had the pleasure of both seeing their wealth taken aswell as being executed, and the money and land gained from these trials were used to pay off the soldiers.

Now, having ensured the loyalty of the military, Arganthos's reign began in full force [3]. With the army now in love with the Dominus, Arganthos was first able to reverse the military payment laws to their original, Demarchatic form, whereby the state (now embodied by the Dominus) would garuntee payment rather than the generals. This upset a number of generals along the northern frontier, but due to his threats, aswell as due to his reknown amongst the common soldiers, they bit their lips for the time being, and acquiesed to his changes in the law. Then, in what would largely be the defining actions of his reign, Arganthos set out to drastically reorganize the apparatus of the Cult of the Sacred Bull, realizing that if Tartessos was to continue to succeed, then it's rulers must have a deeper base of support than merely the military. The Dominus, unlike the Princep, was to be a divine figure - annointed by Tigranus and representing the sacred will of their god. In order to cement his religious authority, Arganthos re-established the office of Regus, declaring himself to be both Regus and Dominus - a sacred aswell as earthly ruler. A church hierarchy was also established, and temples were re-opened throughout the Empire, the preists urged to spread the faith - which had now taken more mystical and decidedly Arecomian overtones, endearing it more both to the common people and to soldiers. Elaborate court rituals were established, and in public, the Emperor was to take on a decidedly stoic and divine presence, wearing jeweled robes and never revealing his emotions.

During this time, the capital was also moved. Tartessos had become far too entrenched in political intrigue and decadence, so it was determined that a new seat of government was required. The city of Kaelpolis, which had earlier so eagerly joined Arganthos during the war with Ouphoureois, was chosen as the site of the new government. Kaelpolis offered many advantages - firstly, it was near the fronts, yet insulated by the Pyrenees, allowing the Dominus to direct military affairs much easier, aswell as control his generals, yet at the same time do so from a well-defended position. It was also a rapidly growing, robust trade center, and remained connected to Tartessos's naval origins, and finally, though it was newer and not as corrupt as Tartessos itself, it also was significantly cosmopolitan, and thus was a suitably proper seat of power for the Dominus. Of course, Tartessos was maintained as a symbolic capital, and remained the seat of the Church (the Dominus having to return annually to commence the religious holdiays), but the offices of government were completely moved to Kaelpolis, and the final vestiges of the Sophetora and Demarchatic government were done away with. With power concentrated in this central position, the Dominus was able to begin the arduous task of rebuilding the broken Empire.

_________________________________________​

[1] - Kaelpolis, from the Greek Kallipolis, an earlier settlement in the region. OTL Barcelona.

[2] - The chief temple of the Cult of the Sacred Bull. An impressive structure, it sits in the center of Tartessos, next to the ancient Sophetora.

[3] - Historically, the Principate was a military dictatorship, and the majority of support rested upon the army and navy. Thusly, it was crucial that Arganthos both gain the support of the military aswell as diversify his legitimacy beyond his military roots.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Sacking Pataliputra was a limited objective?

Yep, I assume the aim was to defeat the dynasty and weaken the empire into a subserviant position, there was no intention of killing all the Bengali's and establishing permanent Avyaktaragan control on the lower Ganges ala Tartessi Italia .

More than you know.

We'll see who outassimilates whom!

 

[Kal'thzar]

However, the likelyhood of the collapse of the Nubian Empire seems high. The geography of the Sudan and Ethiopia are incredibly different and distinctly seperated while the cultural heritage of Ethiopia very profound. I would see this as almost certainly causing the gradual reemergance of an Ethiopian identity, which would in turn reach into its regional past and thus glorify the Aksumite and D'mit empires, allowing for the reemergance of Judaic culture and religion. The TTL development of Nubia will be very interesting to see.

Was, and would have been

I intend to fully commit myself to a southern rather than northen approach to Nubia. (I've done the northen approach before; although that also involved me fighting Isreal ).

 

[das]

Also I was wery surprised because Tarsessos won,he was seriously defeated by enemies and he passed trought a great civil war...

However, the core regions of Tartessos had plenty enough resources for a comeback, and civil wars are actually known to reinvigorate empires if they play out right. There are many historical examples that could be cited here. I think Panda will be particularily flattered by the one about the French Revolution.

Dis, should I expect another part of that order set any time soon?

 

[Disenfrancised]

However, the core regions of Tartessos had plenty enough resources for a comeback, and civil wars are actually known to reinvigorate empires if they play out right. There are many historical examples that could be cited here. I think Panda will be particularily flattered by the one about the French Revolution.

France wasn't invigorated, just finally allowed access to her full strength as the four most populous and the richest (not per captia though) state in the world at that time . Though of course your definitions of reinvigorated may differ .

Dis, should I expect another part of that order set any time soon?

They'll be coming in over the course of the week (and will be shorter for the most part), I have some other order sets and a few 'real life' things to write first though .

 

[Flavius Aetius]

It's possible to have a map of the "Great Years" of Liguria, around 430? Only to see Tarsessos weak and the most powerfull Liguria in histroy...

 

[das]

France wasn't invigorated, just finally allowed access to her full strength as the four most populous and the richest (not per captia though) state in the world at that time

Alright, but in the end it was similar enough, only Haponthios' enemies were much weaker than Napoleon's, and there was no proper Perfidious Albion equivalent in the vicinity.

It's possible to have a map of the "Great Years" of Liguria, around 430?

Sure, if you would draw it yourself. It was not much to look at, really - Liguria stretched from the old Roman border to OTL Andorra.

 

[Flavius Aetius]

Mmm, Andorra? Wonderful, i thinked my borders were much smaller

 

[das]

Okay, as feared the deadline will have to come at some point after the 19th. That gives you people time for stories and orders.

And I reiterate - more people are strongly encouraged to join now, as there are lots of regions with great potential that yet remain unclaimed. 'tis sad.