The pristine story of Kosovo

Kyriakos

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Kosovo is a small countrypuppet-state in the balkans, populated by around 1.8 million people, 9/10nths of which are albanians, while the rest are mostly serbs. Its GDP is 13 billion dollars and the national currency is the Euro :)

Its name in the old Yugoslavia, and what of it still existed before the Nato bombing of Serbia, was Kosovo and Metohia. The region was called Metohi during the Byzantine era of it, a name which was an ecclesiastic term that means "land under the command of a monastery". While controlled by various slavic entities after the arrival of the slavs in the 7th century AD, it most notably was a minor part of the empire of Bulgaria (which was destroyed and annexed in the early 11th century, by Byzantine Emperor Basil II) and later, as a result of the fourth crusade (1204) it became a permanent part of the kingdom of the Serbs.

The area became controlled by the ottoman forces in effect after the Battle of Kosovo (1389), although the ottoman empire officially incorporated Serbia in the middle of the 15th century.

Kosovo only again returned to the control of a Serbian state more than 500 years later, as a result of the first Balkan war. In the second Balkan war which immediately followed, Serbia annexed some more territory previously held by Bulgaria. Here is a map of the borders in the region with the treaty of Bucharest (1913) :

balkan6.gif


Kosovo remained a part of Serbia, and its status only changed with the creation of Yugoslavia (formerly the kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes), following WW1. The region became named as a seperate governing part of Serbia, along with Voivodina in the north.

Following the war of the collapse of Yugoslavia in the early up to mid 1990s, Kosovo was still part of Serbia. The country was now called Serbia and Montenegro, since it still included the coastal serbian independent region, that later on became (again) a nation by its own. The Kosovo war was the final conflict in the aftermath of the destruction of Yugoslavia, and was a war fought between the Serbian army on the one hand, and the Albanian militias mostly known in the west as UCK (KLA in the english acronym). The conflict ended after months of NATO bombing of Serbia, unresolved, since NATO was not willing to send ground troops to the region, fearing the war would go on for long and have many NATO casualties due to the relative modernity and regional importance of the Serbian army and its bonuses in native terrain.

The UCK (KLA) was regarded as a terrorist force by the main powers of NATO, up until the start of the Kosovo war. Moreover the original treaty proposed to Serbia, in the Rambouillet conference, was in effect an ultimatum asking that Serbia would grant full access to Nato forces in all of its territory. The treaty was turned down, the bombing ensued, and later on the conflict was declared as over in the summer of 1999. After that Kosovo became officially a NATO protectorate.

Almost a decade later, it declared its independence. The countries that recognised it are a little over one hundred, although all of the main NATO powers have given it their blessing. The following map shows all those countries in Green:

800px-CountriesRecognizingKosovo.png


Now, in 2013, Kosovo is as good as it ever was. A rising power, a leader not only in local but pan-european drug transit-points and human-trafficking, it has seen a part of its brethen emigrate all over Europe to run the local mafia cartels there. Democracy has won again :)
 
Honestly I dont know why Serbia even wants a crummy region full of people who hate them that has no particular value to them or anyone else. Countries have far too much of an obsession with regions they have no administrative control over. Georgia and its two breakaway areas that they havent controlled properly in their entire existence is another example/
 
Honestly I dont know why Serbia even wants a crummy region full of people who hate them that has no particular value to them or anyone else. Countries have far too much of an obsession with regions they have no administrative control over. Georgia and its two breakaway areas that they havent controlled properly in their entire existence is another example/

Although in part you are right, there are some other issues there:

1) Serbia saw itself become smaller than it even was in the end of the first Balkan war. Generally this is the only such case in the Balkans (Bulgaria was larger than now to a significant degree only for a minute amount of time - treaty of San Stefano- and then only in between the end of the first balkan war and the end of the second balkan war. It also lost a bit more of Western Thrace to Greece following WW1). Greece in general expanded after the small original bit it had managed to liberate in 1830, until 1922 when the treaty of Sevres was cancelled and Greece lost a considerable landmass (most of what now is European Turkey, along with a bit of Asia Minor, Smyrna and areas around it). Romania, again, expanded, mostly after WW1 (also expanded a bit as a result of the second Balkan war, annexing Dobrudja). The rest of the Balkan powers were either too small (Montenegro), too late in the scene (Albania, only formed in 1913 as a protectorate of Italy and Austria) or already under strong foreign occupation (rest of what later on was Yugoslavia).

2) Kosovo is seen in Serbia as some sort of historic old capital of Serbs. While this is not entirely true, it was in effect the first capital of a serbian entity of any stature, the principality of Raska. Of course some Serbs still want to think of their glorious balkan empire under Stephan Dusan, but that only lasted for a few years... Also it was a main catalyst to the Byzantine Empire asking the Ottomans to arrive in Europe, so as to combat the Serbian power which at that point was a serious threat to the Byzantine empire. Of course we all know how well that turned out in the end :)

3)Many Serbs ask that the northern part of Kosovo is united to Serbia, since that is where all of the serbian population in Kosovo now exists. The Albanians have turned down that offer.
 
Honestly I dont know why Serbia even wants a crummy region full of people who hate them that has no particular value to them or anyone else.

The same reasons Turkey kept hold of Constantinople - sentiment. Kosovo may not be the main administrative region of Serbia now, but historically it's been their capitol region.
 
Now, in 2013, Kosovo is as good as it ever was. A rising power, a leader not only in local but pan-european drug transit-points and human-trafficking, it has seen a part of its brethen emigrate all over Europe to run the local mafia cartels there. Democracy has won again :)
:lmao:

What makes this paragraph so great is that it's so wonderfully understated that I had to read it twice to realise that you were actually insulting the Kosovars.

The Serbs want to control Kosovo for the historic regions already mentioned as well as one more pragmatic concern. Serbia had two autonomous ethnic regions in the Yugoslav years; Kosovo and Vojvodina. While Kosovo is a backwards hell-hole, Vojvodina is actually the wealthiest and most productive part of Serbia, and practically borders on Belgrade to boot. If Kosovo is allowed to set a precedent for secession in Serbia, then Vojvodina may use that precedent to secede itself.

Traditionally, Vojvodina hasn't really had an independence movement. It's population is mostly Magyar (Hungarian) and during the Cold War its people seemed to prefer being part of the relatively independent Yugoslavia than being part of the Stalinist Hungary. Since the Cold War lasted fifty years, the movement for unification with Hungary had basically died out by the time of the Yugoslavian Wars. That is, until the 1999 war with NATO; NATO bombed Vojvodina more heavily than the rest of Serbia - except Belgrade - and the Vojvodinians decided they'd prefer independence than to be blown up every time someone bombs Serbia, which is at least once a decade.

Additionally, an independent Vojvodina is unlikely to last; it will almost certainly petition to join Hungary rather than remain independent (though I'm unsure what the Hungarian opinion on that would be. Likewise, the only thing keeping Kosovo from joining Albania is that neither state - if one can even apply that description to Kosovo - has the ability to push that through yet. While NATO likes keeping Serbia weak, it doesn't want to strengthen Albania; Albania has several border conflicts with its neighbours, including Greece, and NATO has no desire to invite the Balkan Wars Redux. If Albania ever gets friendly enough with NATO, they might feel able to annex Kosovo, which is unlikely to be taken lying down by Serbia.

Tldr: welcome to the Balkans, home of irredentism! Enjoy your stay (until the Albanians sell you into sex slavery, the Serbs rape you to death and bury you in a mass grave or the Kosovars sell your organs)!
 
the Serbs rape you to death and bury you in a mass grave

Of course ignoring all the atrocities committed against Serbs. :rolleyes:


However, good thing you pointed out Vojvodina. Very recently in Vojvodina there has been a movement to begin the steps for independence.
 
Of course ignoring all the atrocities committed against Serbs. :rolleyes:


However, good thing you pointed out Vojvodina. Very recently in Vojvodina there has been a movement to begin the steps for independence.
Have you read my comments in WH about the break-up of Yugoslavia lately?

Isnt Albania IN NATO? How much closer can they get?
They could well be by now; it's not like I've bothered to check NATO's membership in a long time, and as something of an historian I tend to focus on NATO during the Cold War rather than at present anyway; in the recent thread about a Russian-Israeli conflict I had to fight the urge to write 'Soviet' constantly. But even if Albania is a member-state doesn't actually mean they're on good enough terms with other members to push through something that controversial. Both Greece and Turkey are members, for example, and they're constantly at each other's throats.
 
Have you read my comments in WH about the break-up of Yugoslavia lately?

No. I've been avoiding that thread because it had "Alternate History" in the title. I'll check it out though as your post implies there is more to the thread than a simple alt-history scenario.
 
No. I've been avoiding that thread because it had "Alternate History" in the title. I'll check it out though as your post implies there is more to the thread than a simple alt-history scenario.
Meh, most of the "Alternate History" threads in WH ery quickly evolve into a discussion of the actual history of the event in question anyway.
 
Meh, most of the "Alternate History" threads in WH ery quickly evolve into a discussion of the actual history of the event in question anyway.

I see that is the case. I guess it helps to have members like you, Dachs, Masada and others to help guide discussion. :)

I like discussing alternate history for the exact reasons stated in Mouthwash's thread, that it is a useful tool for improving understanding of real history. It appears the Yugoslavia thread had ventured down that path.
 
:)

Yes, indeed Vojvodina, which i mentioned in the OP, is another risk for Serbia. It was annexed following WW1, while previously it was part of Hungary in the Austrian empire. It does have a considerable Hungarian (Magyar) population.

As far as i know, even if Albania could annex Kosovo (which it cannot) the Kosovar Albanians are said to not be particularly interested in such a development. Albania itself is not exactly a beacon of democracy either, but in regards to Kosovo it still is a relatively more serious state. Of course there are, as has been mentioned, ideas of a so-called (paradox) "Greater Albania", which generally consists of the areas shown in maps such as this one:

galbania.jpg


The fun never stops in the Balkans :)
 
Additionally, an independent Vojvodina is unlikely to last; it will almost certainly petition to join Hungary rather than remain independent (though I'm unsure what the Hungarian opinion on that would be.
The Hungarians would shout "Hallelujah" and welcome their brothers and sisters with open arms, I'll guarantee you that. People there can still be quit bitter and resentful over what happened to the Hungarian nation after WWI and to remedy the loss of territory and people is the wet dream of any given Hungarian nationalist (which don't appear to be in short supply these days).
 
The Hungarians would shout "Hallelujah" and welcome their brothers and sisters with open arms, I'll guarantee you that. People there can still be quit bitter and resentful over what happened to the Hungarian nation after WWI and to remedy the loss of territory and people is the wet dream of any given Hungarian nationalist (which don't appear to be in short supply these days).

Well we all know what it means to be a minority in Serbia. Not good.
 
Well we all know what it means to be a minority in Serbia. Not good.

10/10 top lel you are a master ruseman! :lol:

Next you're going to tell me how tough the Bosniaks have it in the present-day Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina!
 
Quite interesting map.
I did not now that there were albanians in Greece or in FYRM. Are these albanians pulling for their independence as well?

There are two very different situations:

-In Greece the Albanians came in numbers after 1990, due to the opening of borders to the balkans, supposedly so as to invite cheap labor. They effectively became some sort of near-slave (which was of course a very bad stance from those Greeks who hired them too...) and also many criminals came with them from Albania.
In theory there exists an UCK-like organization for all other areas the albanians want to "liberate" so as to form their glorious nu-Albania. However Albanians are not a recognised minority in Greece, since most of them are illegal. Most of the legal ones are children born here of albanian parents.

-In Fyrom the albanians had a nice little civil war going on with the slavs. Its result was that the slavs were forced to recognize albanians as a "co-founding ethnicity" of Fyrom. It is widely believed that in considerably less than half a century the albanians will be a very clear majority in the entire Fyrom, and it is one of the main issues that country has. It already got near to spliting up a few years ago due to the aforementioned civil-war, it is likely to split sometime in the next three decades at best, although who knows what else will happen in the general region by then.
 
There are two very different situations:

-In Greece the Albanians came in numbers after 1990, due to the opening of borders to the balkans, supposedly so as to invite cheap labor. They effectively became some sort of near-slave (which was of course a very bad stance from those Greeks who hired them too...) and also many criminals came with them from Albania.
In theory there exists a UCK-like organization for all other areas the albanians want to "liberate" so as to form their glorious nu-Albania. However Albanians are not a recognised minority in Greece, since most of them are illegal. Most of the legal ones are children born here of albanian parents.

So if Albanians in Greece are a modern emigrants, how this matches with the map you attached with the historical ethnic albania?
 
So if Albanians in greece are a modern emigrants, how this matches with the map you attached with the historical ethnic albania?

I did not post that map because i agree with it... There is no such thing as a historical ethnic albania, at least in such a scale. I posted it so as to show what other mad theories are going on in the region :)
 
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