The problem with Black Lives Matter

[civver_764]

Also, that FBI site claims that "Law enforcement agencies collect detailed incident level data regarding individual offenses and arrests and submit them using prescribed data elements and data values", except we know that they don't. For example,

CNN, 9 Oct 2014 - Study finds Boston police target African-Americans disproportionately.

"No justification" means, at best, Boston police officers weren't filing proper Field Interrogation and Observation reports, so the completeness of any data they submitted to the FBI must at the very least be suspect. That's just Boston, but I doubt BPD are the only ones slacking on their paperwork. fwiw, the ACLU report was based on data from a study BPD commissioned on itself, and the department has made an effort since this report was published to reform their procedures. I've no idea whether it's been successful or not, but it was perhaps illuminating that BPD didn't really argue these findings too strenuously.

So because they wrote down "no justification" on a report about an unrelated "stop-and-frisk" program you think they presented fraudulent data to the federal government about the race of offenders and arrestees? I'm not following your logic here, you seem to have just brought up something entirely unrelated.

As for the study itself, it fails to mention the corresponding crime rates for each racial group. It makes it sound like the police are just going after the black people more because they hate black people. Here is the commissioner's explanation of these numbers: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...-inaccurate/Zev3p7jvRVQ2loKSWncu2H/story.html

But Commissioner William Evans defended the department, and said that officers focused on high-crime areas and individuals with gang affiliations and criminal records. He noted that the data were years old, but acknowledged the racial disparity in encounters with Boston police.

Evans also said the department has since overhauled its procedures for stopping residents and has instituted new racial profiling and bias training. Overall, he said, the report shows the work of a police department focused on violence, not race.

...

“We recognize that we’re not perfect,” said Evans, who was appointed commissioner in January. “We’re focusing on the violent areas, we’re focusing on kids who have been involved in gangs and violence. So this is a focused effort, with the whole purpose of making those neighborhoods as safe as possible.”

The study also found that the biggest predictors for whether a person of any race would be stopped repeatedly were gang affiliation and criminal history, and the biggest predictor for how frequently police conducted FIOs in different neighborhoods was its crime rate.

However, after controlling for issues like criminal history, blacks were 8.8 percent more likely than whites to be stopped repeatedly by police, and 12 percent more likely than whites to be frisked or searched during a stop.

So at best there's a slight bias with regards to this BPD program, but nothing like the left-wing media is reporting. And considering that this discussion started from the point of black lives being targeted for "demise", I don't think this falls under that category.

 

[Zkribbler]

What was it, something like six cases in a row threw out voter ID laws because it was proven that these laws were passed, not to detect fraud, but to disenfranchise minority voters.

 

[emzie]

Starting a new thread so as not to derail the other one:

From their website:

"Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise."

This is a true statement but phrased in a very dishonest way. You can actually say this about any murder victim, but they are trying to make it sound like black people are uniquely affected by this.

Anytime you hear the word "systemic" your BS-meter should be going off. It's nothing more than an attempt to make something sound worse than it is. Trayvon Martin's death wasn't just somebody in a fight getting shot, no, somehow we are all collectively responsible for his death because...well they never really explain that part.

I'm gonna keep this short, there are two key statistics that totally destroyed the myths of Black Lives Matter for me.

In 2016, only 16 unarmed black people were killed by police officers. If black lives were "systemically and intentionally targeted for demise", how on earth did they only manage to kill 16 of them? And if the problem is really systemic, how did the BLM become so popular in the first place? You would expect it to be brutally suppressed by police, wouldn't you? But no, we see the exact opposite. We see police officers standing by while BLM protestors riot and cause disruptions. If they truly thought that "black lives don't matter", then why didn't they shoot all of them?

Of course, we know why they didn't. Because "Black Lives Matter" is actually just a huge strawman. It is so painfully obvious that society does in fact care about the lives of black people.

Here's what I think is the most damning statistic:

According to that, if there is a "systemic" problem, then surely it is black people targeting white people, not the other way around. Of course, I don't really think this is a "systemic" issue, but I'm trying to highlight just how divorced from reality this movement is.

Do you believe black lives matter?

 

[Borachio]

Good question. And one I was going to ask, myself.

I was going to add that, as we all know, there are only two races: black, and white supremacist.

As I presume the OP is a white supremacist (not unreasonable in the absence of evidence to the contrary - though, as usual, I could be wrong, but wouldn't it be strange if he were black?), I would like to ask how he would feel if someone suggested that his life doesn't matter?

I mean, he's probably right, in the larger scheme of things, my life doesn't matter at all. And yet...it's still not a nice thing to suggest.

 

[Broken_Erika]

No lives matter. Humanity sucks! Bow down to the squirrels!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

What was it, something like six cases in a row threw out voter ID laws because it was proven that these laws were passed, not to detect fraud, but to disenfranchise minority voters.

The claim of fraud is rich for the government officials to claim (no matter if in the U.S. or Canada) because they're the ones who are blatantly committing fraud.

Thank goodness we got rid of Stephen Harper here in Canada. His (Un)"Fair" Elections Act was, he claimed, designed to cut down on voter fraud. What it was really designed to do was to make it difficult, if not next to impossible, for certain demographics to vote since he knew damn well that a lot of these people would have difficulty coming up with photo ID and many wouldn't have anything on the list of non-photo ID.

And it was so cute how he gutted Elections Canada's ability to actually investigate fraud and other instances of wrongdoing, and took away their mandate to even encourage people to vote. I guess he didn't understand that as a neutral party in elections (the Chief Electoral Officer and his/her deputy are the only two people in the country who are not allowed to vote even though they would otherwise meet every eligibility requirement), EC was actually being neutral when they investigated the robocall scandal in earlier elections.

After word got out that since robocalls weren't going to work anymore (phoning people in predominantly non-Conservative ridings and telling them their polling station's location had changed or the advance vote times had changed so they'd go on a wild goose chase and hopefully miss their chance to vote), they switched to robocards - putting false information on the Voter Information Cards that everyone gets. Some people's names and addresses were wrong on these cards, in spite of the fact that they'd lived at their current addresses for years, the information had been correct in the previous election, and EC compiles the voter's list from the previous year's tax returns. Of course they blamed it on "human error" or "chance" but if anyone believes it was all an accident or a minor slipup, I've got ocean front property outside my window to sell them. I ended up checking my own status on the voter's list several times, just to make sure I didn't suddenly "move" without my knowledge.

I was going to add that, as we all know, there are only two races: black, and white supremacist.

Add a third here: the natives (I've lost track of what we're supposed to call them now - First Nations, aboriginal, whatever... the news media has been ordered to refer to them as "indigenous"). I realize that they do have legitimate grievances with governments past and present. But to blame ALL non-FN/aboriginal/native/indigenous etc. for it?

Nope. I accept no blame for any of it. Yes, I had been born when some of the residential schools were still running (the last one shut down in the '90s). No, I didn't know they were still running. Not my decision to keep them running, and I resent being seen as essentially the same as the ones who did run them.

This attitude among some of the BLM movement that ONLY their lives matter and nobody else's matters is counter-productive in my view. Yes, it is reprehensible how the police treat them, assuming they're criminals just because of their skin color. That's how native people get treated here as well - pulled over by police on the road and on foot, followed in stores by staff, denied apartments if they're living off the reserve, etc.

When you have the BLM in Toronto disrupting the Pride parade last year, demanding that no uniformed police officers be allowed to march and not letting the parade go forward until the organizers caved in to these demands, that's going too far. BLM were invited to participate in that parade, and they decided to get pushy. So this year the Toronto cops who would have marched in Toronto went to New York instead and marched there.

 

[Senethro]

I can almost hear the word "uppity".

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I mean, he's probably right, in the larger scheme of things, my life doesn't matter at all.

 

[metatron]

I can almost hear the word "uppity".

I can almost hear "we'll put you in the ГУЛАГ, you nazi [broad], as soon as we have the chance".

It's funny how that works, isn't it?

 

[Senethro]

I can almost hear "we'll put you in the ГУЛАГ, you nazi [broad], as soon as we have the chance".

It's funny how that works, isn't it?

Confirmed. The purges are scheduled for 8am on Day 1 in the New Revolutionary Calendar.

So much for the tolerant left.

 

[metatron]

Confirmed. The purges are scheduled for 8am on Day 1 in the New Revolutionary Calendar.

So much for the tolerant left.

A.m. is an imperialist-fascist anglo-centric concept.
Just sayin'.

 

[Kyriakos]

Imo it is a dead-end, because people are too polarized. Not that it is easy to have normality if you feature a 30% minority with a past of being treated as slaves and then 2nd class citizens. Yet it would require logical and grown-up co-operation to mend this, and there is nothing of the sort to be found currently.

That said, the title of the thread reminded me of that movie quote

(meant as a joke; i am not claiming anything about racism )

 

[metalhead]

Starting a new thread so as not to derail the other one:

From their website:

"Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise."

This is a true statement but phrased in a very dishonest way. You can actually say this about any murder victim, but they are trying to make it sound like black people are uniquely affected by this.

Anytime you hear the word "systemic" your BS-meter should be going off. It's nothing more than an attempt to make something sound worse than it is. Trayvon Martin's death wasn't just somebody in a fight getting shot, no, somehow we are all collectively responsible for his death because...well they never really explain that part.

I'm gonna keep this short, there are two key statistics that totally destroyed the myths of Black Lives Matter for me.

In 2016, only 16 unarmed black people were killed by police officers. If black lives were "systemically and intentionally targeted for demise", how on earth did they only manage to kill 16 of them? And if the problem is really systemic, how did the BLM become so popular in the first place? You would expect it to be brutally suppressed by police, wouldn't you? But no, we see the exact opposite. We see police officers standing by while BLM protestors riot and cause disruptions. If they truly thought that "black lives don't matter", then why didn't they shoot all of them?

The problem here is that you're narrowing their focus to one tiny (albeit explosive) issue, as if the only beef BLM has with the way black people are treated in society is the unjustified murder of black people by police.

The issue of "lives targeted for demise" goes way beyond that. It's hyperbole, sure, but it touches many, many areas where systematic discrimination does harm black lives. Incarceration rates. Sentencing disparities. College acceptance and graduation rates. Pay rates. Hiring. Housing. Owning property. To, er, name a few.

In every instance and probably many more, black people face obstacles that you and I do not face. Perhaps labeling that the demise of black lives is hyperbole - OK, I mean, hyperbole is sometimes used intentionally for effect. I don't think it makes much sense to dismiss the movement entirely simply because you don't like the hyperbolic wording in their mission statement.

Look past that to all of the real complaints they have, of how in so many different aspects they are told by society, if not by individual people, that their lives matter less on account of their skin color. And that's without even touching the fact that up until 50 years ago it was codified law in virtually every state and federally that black lives counted less than white ones.

Of course, we know why they didn't. Because "Black Lives Matter" is actually just a huge strawman. It is so painfully obvious that society does in fact care about the lives of black people.

Here's what I think is the most damning statistic:

According to that, if there is a "systemic" problem, then surely it is black people targeting white people, not the other way around. Of course, I don't really think this is a "systemic" issue, but I'm trying to highlight just how divorced from reality this movement is.

Interracial killings are such a small slice of the number of murders overall that this is kind of a ridiculous statement you're making. There are a lot more white people about, of course they get killed more often. That's simply a numbers game and nothing more.

Of course, the bit you quoted above was asking for examples where BLM spread hate and lies about white people, none of which you have provided here.

 

[civver_764]

The problem here is that you're narrowing their focus to one tiny (albeit explosive) issue, as if the only beef BLM has with the way black people are treated in society is the unjustified murder of black people by police.

The issue of "lives targeted for demise" goes way beyond that. It's hyperbole, sure, but it touches many, many areas where systematic discrimination does harm black lives. Incarceration rates. Sentencing disparities. College acceptance and graduation rates. Pay rates. Hiring. Housing. Owning property. To, er, name a few.

In every instance and probably many more, black people face obstacles that you and I do not face. Perhaps labeling that the demise of black lives is hyperbole - OK, I mean, hyperbole is sometimes used intentionally for effect. I don't think it makes much sense to dismiss the movement entirely simply because you don't like the hyperbolic wording in their mission statement.

Look past that to all of the real complaints they have, of how in so many different aspects they are told by society, if not by individual people, that their lives matter less on account of their skin color. And that's without even touching the fact that up until 50 years ago it was codified law in virtually every state and federally that black lives counted less than white ones.

The fact is, there is nothing "systemic" against black people. The only laws in our books which discriminate by race are affirmative action laws. I'm happy to talk about individual acts of discrimination which black individuals face, but I don't think the narrative about how all white people in general harm black people is particularly helpful or accurate.

Interracial killings are such a small slice of the number of murders overall that this is kind of a ridiculous statement you're making. There are a lot more white people about, of course they get killed more often. That's simply a numbers game and nothing more.

Wait what? That's not how it works. If there's more white people then there's also more white people to kill black people.

Besides that, I'm not the one saying interracial killings are significant, BLM are. The graph just shows how wrong they are regarding that.

Of course, the bit you quoted above was asking for examples where BLM spread hate and lies about white people, none of which you have provided here.

I mean, here's something straight from the co-founder of BLM:

 

[Narz]

Yikes, she's nuts.

 

[Senethro]

The fact is, there is nothing "systemic" against black people. The only laws in our books which discriminate by race are affirmative action laws. I'm happy to talk about individual acts of discrimination which black individuals face, but I don't think the narrative about how all white people in general harm black people is particularly helpful or accurate.

Wait what? That's not how it works. If there's more white people then there's also more white people to kill black people.

Besides that, I'm not the one saying interracial killings are significant, BLM are. The graph just shows how wrong they are regarding that.

Nope, I think you want the graph on hate crimes that you would have seen if you'd scrolled down a bit.

Your graph is not meant to be used in the way you're wanting. Also, think about it. If a white person murders randomly, the likelihood is the killing will be intraracial and so fall outside your chosen graph. If a black person murders randomly, the likelihood is it will be interracial.

 

[MilesGregarius]

No lives matter. Humanity sucks! Bow down to the squirrels!

Blasphemy!!! Squirrels are the bastardized creation of the Demi-Urge, brought about to lead us astray from our true overlords, the chipmunks.

 

[Borachio]

Yikes, she's nuts.

As already mentioned, that'll be the squirrels.

 

[metalhead]

The fact is, there is nothing "systemic" against black people. The only laws in our books which discriminate by race are affirmative action laws. I'm happy to talk about individual acts of discrimination which black individuals face, but I don't think the narrative about how all white people in general harm black people is particularly helpful or accurate.

Black people are at a measurable disadvantage any time they interact with an institution, whether it is commercial, governmental, or educational. You are basically saying that this doesn't exist. Do you really deny the existence of institutional racism? Because if you do, this is never going to be a productive discussion.

Wait what? That's not how it works. If there's more white people then there's also more white people to kill black people.

Besides that, I'm not the one saying interracial killings are significant, BLM are. The graph just shows how wrong they are regarding that.

I mean, here's something straight from the co-founder of BLM:

BLM is actually not saying that interracial killings are of particular significance. You're saying that. But that's really not what BLM is about, at all.

Also, come on with this. If she didn't say it in official capacity on behalf of the entirety of BLM, you can't attribute her ramblings about white inferiority to the entire movement. That's just dishonest.

I'll only point out that all of the good music and most of the good food in America was not invented by white people. You are free to draw from that whatever conclusion you wish

 

[Arwon]

I'm no brain genius but aren't there like, a lot more white people in the United States. The fact that those lines are so close together doesn't say what I suspect you think it does.