The Quest: Part 1

[That Retro Guy]

Welcome to my Quest. My goal is to achieve every winning condition (except for Histographic) on Regent level difficulty. I haven’t played a full game since Experiment 626's Solo TDG in 2006.

Here's the link for that game: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/experiment-626s-solo-tdg.155810/

For those of you who followed that Solo TDG, this will not have detailed Journals every 10 turns like that game did. I really don’t want this game to take 7 months to finish like the Solo TDG did.

Firstly, the specifics:

The game is Civ3 Complete.
The map is Standard size, Continents with 60% Water.
The Climate is normal, Temperature is Temperate, and Age is 4 Billion.
AI Aggression is Normal.
Barbarians are Goody-Hut only.

As mentioned, all games will be Regent level.

In this first game, I’m going for the SpaceShip Victory, so I’m playing as the Persians (Sci/Ind).
There are 4 Random AIs.

I used MapFinder to find a decent starting position because the game was no help is this respect.

I swear, the game once gave me a starting position where I could only see the 3x3 grid with my Settler in the middle. 3 of the squares were Mountains, 3 were Desert (one with an Oasis on it), and the other 3 were Flood Plains. I mean, seriously?

If you’re curious, here is the RuleSet that I used.

Spoiler :

Food Bonus > 0
Luxury > 0
River > 0
Desert, Flood Plains, Jungle, Marsh, Mountains, and Tundra = 0

Anyway, MapFinder found me a nice starting position and it is HoF approved.

With no further ado, here is my starting position:

Since I haven’t played in awhile, I just want to double-check my thinking with the gurus on this Forum before proceeding.

The Settler will build the city where he stands. Hopefully, the Goody Hut pops a tech.
The city’s Build Order will be 2 Warriors (for scouting purposes) and then a Worker.

Here’s the Mini-Map:

The first Warrior will look to the South for a new City site and to fill in the edge of the landmass.

The second Warrior will go East looking for City sites and exposing the map.

The starting Worker will Irrigate and then road the Cow. After that, he’ll road the Wine to help keep the peeps Happy.

After the second Worker is finished, maybe I’ll be able to build a Settler next.

As always, I’ll be researching like mad for the Republic Slingshot.

Are my opening moves the most efficient way of starting or is there a better way?

 

[Lone Wolf]

It's as good a plan as any, I think.

 

[tjs282]

The first Warrior will look to the South for a new City site and to fill in the edge of the landmass.

Since the minimap shows you to be in the SW quadrant of the map already, then rather than running south along the coast (if I've understood you right?) I'd be more inclined to send the first Warrior scouting upriver (SE) for freshwater city sites (my preference) and the other scouting north along the coast. Your Worker will give you a look to the south when he climbs the Hill to road the Wines, and if it's really important to know what lies beyond the Worker's view (other than Tundra!), then I'd send a Curragh that way once I got Alphabet...

I shall be following your Quest with interest...

 

[Toxicman007]

If you are on a Standard size map, but 4 random AIs, who are the others?

 

[That Retro Guy]

If you are on a Standard size map, but 4 random AIs, who are the others?

Dunno . . . I haven't started playing yet. Once I start playing, it's only a matter of time before one of those 'richest Civs in the World' things pop up and spoil the surprise.

I wonder if there's a way to shut those things off?

 

[Toxicman007]

I think you misunderstood my question. 4 Random AIs plus 1 human player (you) is only 5 civilizations. A standard size map on civ3 has default 8 civilizations, if I remember correctly, so we are missing 3 players. Did you choose their civilizations yourself, or perhaps lower the amount of civs that spawn? I am just a bit confused, that's all. Apart from that I really like your idea and will be following closely!

 

[That Retro Guy]

Oh! I see what you're asking. I lowered the number of AIs to the Hof-compliant minimum number of 4 for a Standard size map. So there are a grand total of 5 Civs (including myself) on the map.

 

[That Retro Guy]

I've started the game, and played until 2430 BC. I have 2 cities, 2 Luxuries (1 Wine and 1 Dye; both are connected to both cities), and I have discovered that America is to the East.

Once I start playing, it's only a matter of time before one of those 'richest Civs in the World' things pop up and spoil the surprise.

Did I call it, or what? Thanks to one of those 'richest Civs in the world', I now know that the AIs are Maya, America, Egyptian, and Inca.

Oh, the Goody Hut in the 4000BC pic only gave me 25 Gold. One of the Warriors located another Goody Hut but it spawned 3 Barbs. My Warrior dispatched all of them but he didn't get promoted.

Lincoln (America) has 3 Techs to trade but a trade isn't possible at this time. I have researched Alphabet and am now researching Writing.

 

[That Retro Guy]

Here's the 2430 pic.

 

[need my speed]

Why are you making a Curragh and a Spearman, and not two Settlers (depending on how long they take to build versus how fast the city grows)? Or a Worker perhaps, or at the very least, a Warrior instead of a Spearman (but you already have three Warriors anyway).

(but note; I am most certainly not an expert)

 

[tjs282]

Why are you making a Curragh and a Spearman, and not two Settlers (depending on how long they take to build versus how fast the city grows)?

I suggested a Curragh above, for exploring the (south) coast. Before the Cow is irrigated, though, neither of those towns have significant food-excess, so with both towns at Pop1 I'd say it was too early to have them building Settlers. I'd agree that Warriors/Workers are better options than Spears.

But planting Pasargardae off both the nearby rivers is a bigger mistake, in my view. Now it's going to need an Aqueduct for 100 shields (i.e. 3.3 Immortals).

One tile further east would have been better: it would have secured the Dyes behind the town (relative to invaders), and also have left room for 2 'filler' towns, both on the River, upstream from Persepolis: 1 on the tile west of Pasargadae's current position, and 1 on the Plains SW of the 2 Mountains. Up to you @That Retro Guy whether you want to live with it as is.

If not, the Spear-build could be switched to a Settler (it's more than halfway there already) and the town abandoned and refounded (you could even chop the Dyes-Forest into the Settler, if you can get a Worker there fast enough). But remember: to Settler-abandon at Pop1-2, the town must be making a net zero (or negative) food-harvest on the turn the shield-box is filled.

The southern peninsula is effectively secure until the AI can drop off Settlers using Galleys, so I'd send the next Settler out of Persepolis to the NE. The next best site I can see for a permanent town would be the Coastal Plains 5 tiles NE of Persepolis — on the River, 1 tile upstream from the mouth (i.e. NOT next to the Fish). With all those Floodplains, the permanent town will be food- and later (once the Plains + Deserts are mined) shield-rich, so could build Workers/Settlers for further expansion northwards/ eastwards (I'd want to plant some towns CxxxC along that ridge of Rivered Hills: what a fantastic defensive line, and may also help to secure you some vital Iron!).

That would also leave room for another filler-town 3 tiles NE of Persepolis, on the intervening Coastal desert (which could take over Curragh-building duties, for northbound exploration past that Jungle).

But that's just my opinion. I'm not an expert either

 

[need my speed]

I didn't even look at the city placement, you are absolutely right there. In 99% of all situations (really, exceptions are vanishingly rare), I make sure no city's BFC (Big Fat Cross; the workable tiles) covers waters or rivers while the city itself doesn't border water or a river.

As for the Curragh - I noticed that the northern Warrior is exploring alongside the coast, which makes sense, but which is then inefficient if you want to also send a Curragh out (it'd be travelling along the same path the Warrior took). Still, I often wait until very late to send out two naval units to explore (or I simply never do so), so for me this inefficiency is inherent. But if you will be sending out a Curragh soon, it is something to consider.

 

[tjs282]

As for the Curragh - I noticed that the northern Warrior is exploring alongside the coast, which makes sense, but which is then inefficient if you want to also send a Curragh out (it'd be travelling along the same path the Warrior took).

True, but the Warrior could instead explore inland (along the edge of the Jungle?), where a Curragh can't go...

 

[That Retro Guy]

True, but the Warrior could instead explore inland (along the edge of the Jungle?), where a Curragh can't go...

That is indeed the plan. The Warrior will go east while the Curragh follows the northern coast.

 

[That Retro Guy]

I had a nutty idea (and therefore it's probably a stupid one), but should I Abandon this city and move it to one of the spots on the pic?

#1 (Dark Blue) is on the river and I can have the Worker build a Colony on the Dyes. This is the option that I'm considering. I can build another City on #3 or #4 as well.
#2 (Light Blue) would be on the river but it would take a Temple or something to get the BFG to include the Dyes or I have the Worker build a Colony.
#3 (Light Blue) is also on the River and the Dyes would be in the initial City Radius.
#4 (Light Blue) is on the river but again it would take a Temple or something to get the BFG to include the Dyes or I have the Worker build a Colony.
#5 (Light Blue) is way out of the way. I shouldn't have put a #5 dot on that square but I got carried away.

Would this be something to seriously consider doing or should I just grin and bear it?

 

[tjs282]

I had a nutty idea (and therefore it's probably a stupid one), but should I Abandon this city and move it to one of the spots on the pic?

None of the above?

If I may...

One tile further east would have been better: it would have secured the Dyes behind the town (relative to invaders), and also have left room for 2 'filler' towns, both on the River, upstream from Persepolis: 1 on the tile west of Pasargadae's current position, and 1 on the Plains SW of the 2 Mountains. Up to you @That Retro Guy whether you want to live with it as is.

Or in pictures:

Arrows added so that your Site-numbers indicate my Settlement priority (if this were my game). No. 4 is only relative to this map though: I'd head north to secure the coastal (Flood)Plains site near the Fish, before sending more Settlers further east (see my post above, and screenie below):

(Site C builds Curraghs, Site S builds Settlers)

 

[That Retro Guy]

If I move the city 1 sq E like you suggest, is it on a River so the city won't need an Aqueduct? The River is only touching the corner. I've always wondered if that counts . . .

 

[need my speed]

Yes, it will be. You can verify by right-clicking on the tile to see the terrain information; a river should be adding +1 commerce to the tile.

 

[tjs282]

Yes, it will be.

Possibly irrelevant/unnecessary addendum: ...since this is a randomly generated map.

I have discovered (from the American SG I'm currently playing, based on @Marla_Singer's World Map.bix) that this is not necessarily true on prebuilt maps: the game doesn't always seem to register some of the visible river-sections (which will all have been placed by the map-creator).

On that particular map, many tiles which appear to be adjacent to the Colorado, Rio Grande, Amazon, and the Rhine, don't actually give the freshwater bonus.

 

[That Retro Guy]

I checked in-game and the proposed new site (with the river touching just the corner) does have a Gold Value of 1 so the city square is 'rivered' and so I shouldn't have to worry about an Aqueduct.