The Right & Obsession with Maniliness?

civver_764 said:
Kind of like people that go around accusing people of racism all the time. I'd imagine a lot of them are trying to compensate for their own bigoted thoughts, so they project them onto other people.
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Or people going around accusing people of being anti-man in thread after thread?
 
Commodore said:
But a lot of people are jerks because they are losers.
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Oh, certainly. This is a thread about the alt-right, after all, a group who make it their personal mission to demonstrate that the loser-to-jerk character arc isn't just for comic book villains.

civver_764 said:
Kind of like people that go around accusing people of racism all the time. I'd imagine a lot of them are trying to compensate for their own bigoted thoughts, so they project them onto other people.
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That's really not the same dynamic. Caketasty's suggestion wasn't that people who call others "****s" are themselves ****s, but that they're worried about it. The analogy would be that people who habitually call their own opponents "racist" are anxious that they may carry some latent racism, not that they're "the real racists." Whether or not they're actually racist, or a ****, or a racist ****, is besides the point.
 
There is a special term for a female ****old, for what it might be worth: ****quean.

I know of no term for a couple who **** each other with the same person. I suspect there isn't such a term.

A couckple, maybe?
 
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Timsup2nothin said:
What if you and your wife cheat with the same person?

At the same time??
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Gori the Grey said:
There is a special term for a female ****old, for what it might be worth: ****quean.

I know of no term for a couple who **** each other with the same person. I suspect there isn't such a term.

A couckple, maybe?
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That's just a threesome. Or if they don't do it at the exact same time, a polyamerous relationship where all three are simultaniously ****s and ****ers (is that a word?).
Or if they keep it secret from each other, the plot of a dreadful 1970's comedy.
 
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To me, this obsession over 'manliness' is not only rather childish (to be as cliche as possible) but it speaks to what I've been observing and recently noticing in the American male lately.

American Men, in general, are essentially children. You can see it in the ads that are targeted towards them (Old Spice), the cars that American men drive (big pickup trucks, Mustang/GTO/Whatever "muscle" cars), cultural phenomena (Chuck Norris jokes), soap with packaging that's way more masculine than any soap should deserve, all of which are building up the cultural ideal of what a man is. Even the way they behave where they have to 'protect their honor' or 'be a man' when it comes to conflicts that end in prison time which almost always can be best resolved and avoided by a little humility. These may be small things but small things do stack up, as comes the phrase "the straw that broke the camels back."

All of this coupled with American men essentially being pampered, idolized even, in comparison to women and minority groups to where you don't see the American Man as anything other than the standard default makes the reaction of the American Man to anything that could possibly be seen as them "losing" something to anyone probably leads to this affinity towards their perception of 'manliness' and probably their vigorous and ever escalating obsession over it, something of which we're seeing now with the current administration's claims that America is 'losing' and 'winning' when international diplomacy and relations are far more complicated than a game.

The problem is this thing has probably been happening for decades now. Childish men raising even more childish men raising even more childish men, passing down attitudes on what they believe it is to be a man. Through this, it could be seen that the defense of manliness is also seen as a defense for paternal knowledge and honor as well, adding another level of vigorous defense that has the high potential of a violent confrontation.

But then again, that's just my opinion.
 
Leonel said:
To me, this obsession over 'manliness' is not only rather childish (to be as cliche as possible) but it speaks to what I've been observing and recently noticing in the American male lately.

American Men, in general, are essentially children. You can see it in the ads that are targeted towards them (Old Spice), the cars that American men drive (big pickup trucks, Mustang/GTO/Whatever "muscle" cars), cultural phenomena (Chuck Norris jokes), soap with packaging that's way more masculine than any soap should deserve, all of which are building up the cultural ideal of what a man is. Even the way they behave where they have to 'protect their honor' or 'be a man' when it comes to conflicts that end in prison time which almost always can be best resolved and avoided by a little humility. These may be small things but small things do stack up, as comes the phrase "the straw that broke the camels back."

All of this coupled with American men essentially being pampered, idolized even, in comparison to women and minority groups to where you don't see the American Man as anything other than the standard default makes the reaction of the American Man to anything that could possibly be seen as them "losing" something to anyone probably leads to this affinity towards their perception of 'manliness' and probably their vigorous and ever escalating obsession over it, something of which we're seeing now with the current administration's claims that America is 'losing' and 'winning' when international diplomacy and relations are far more complicated than a game.

The problem is this thing has probably been happening for decades now. Childish men raising even more childish men raising even more childish men, passing down attitudes on what they believe it is to be a man. Through this, it could be seen that the defense of manliness is also seen as a defense for paternal knowledge and honor as well, adding another level of vigorous defense that has the high potential of a violent confrontation.

But then again, that's just my opinion.
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People who remain children (or keep their inner children alive) are better people in my (non-Western) environment. Being an adult, being mature, or growing up is not praised at all.
 
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Honor said:
People who remain children (or keep their inner children alive) are better people in my (non-Western) environment. Being an adult, being mature, or growing up is not praised at all.
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But that's the thing, there are varying levels of remaining children. The inner child in terms of keeping your sense of wonder, playfulness in adulthood, curiosity is a good thing for sure (I assume that's what you mean. Please let me know if it's not). The problem is that the American man goes overboard with it and actually indulges in the negative aspects of being childlike. Temper tantrums, wanting it their way all the time, belittling others to make themselves bigger, shrugging responsibility.

So you are right in that people who remain children are better people, but the problem in America is that idea is taken to the extreme much to the deterrent of the personal development of the American man.
 
Leonel said:
But that's the thing, there are varying levels of remaining children. The inner child in terms of keeping your sense of wonder, playfulness in adulthood, curiosity is a good thing for sure (I assume that's what you mean. Please let me know if it's not). The problem is that the American man goes overboard with it and actually indulges in the negative aspects of being childlike. Temper tantrums, wanting it their way all the time, belittling others to make themselves bigger, shrugging responsibility.

So you are right in that people who remain children are better people, but the problem in America is that idea is taken to the extreme much to the deterrent of the personal development of the American man.
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Hmmm, maybe. Or maybe the children are a little different as well.
 
Honor said:
Hmmm, maybe. Or maybe the children are a little different as well.
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That is very likely, as you mentioned about your culture. Like I mentioned, childish men raise more childish men. If there are wise adults, they will raise more wise adults. Again I'm speaking to the American experience only.
 
Leonel said:
American Men, in general, are essentially children. You can see it in the ads that are targeted towards them (Old Spice), the cars that American men drive (big pickup trucks, Mustang/GTO/Whatever "muscle" cars), cultural phenomena (Chuck Norris jokes), soap with packaging that's way more masculine than any soap should deserve, all of which are building up the cultural ideal of what a man is. Even the way they behave where they have to 'protect their honor' or 'be a man' when it comes to conflicts that end in prison time which almost always can be best resolved and avoided by a little humility. These may be small things but small things do stack up, as comes the phrase "the straw that broke the camels back."
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At least some of these are practiced with a sense of irony, though, surely? Nobody actually watches an Old Spice commercial and says "yes, this is what a man is". Many, possibly most expressions of hyper-masculinity in popular culture express less a naive celebration of masculinity than an anxious distance from it. You cite Chuck Norris jokes, but isn't the essential premise of that meme that the perfectly masculine man is an impossibility?

There's certainly a lot of macho garbage out there, but we need to distinguish between the bellowing of reaction and the uncomfortable laughter of post-modernity, lest we turn into one of those godawful tumblrs about gendered shampoos.
 
Traitorfish said:
At least some of these are practiced with a sense of irony, though, surely? Nobody actually watches an Old Spice commercial and says "yes, this is what a man is". Many, possibly most expressions of hyper-masculinity in popular culture express less a naive celebration of masculinity than an anxious distance from it. You cite Chuck Norris jokes, but isn't the essential premise of that meme that the perfectly masculine man is an impossibility?

There's certainly a lot of macho garbage out there, but we need to distinguish between the bellowing of reaction and the uncomfortable laughter of post-modernity, lest we turn into one of those godawful tumblrs about gendered shampoos.
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I didn't say the macho garbage was the cause but that it's a symptom of something deeper.
 
Traitorfish said:
At least some of these are practiced with a sense of irony, though, surely? Nobody actually watches an Old Spice commercial and says "yes, this is what a man is". Many, possibly most expressions of hyper-masculinity in popular culture express less a naive celebration of masculinity than an anxious distance from it.
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Would that include Fight Club then? I was left very internally confused after that one.
 
Traitorfish said:
Oh, certainly. This is a thread about the alt-right, after all, a group who make it their personal mission to demonstrate that the loser-to-jerk character arc isn't just for comic book villains.


That's really not the same dynamic. Caketasty's suggestion wasn't that people who call others "****s" are themselves ****s, but that they're worried about it. The analogy would be that people who habitually call their own opponents "racist" are anxious that they may carry some latent racism, not that they're "the real racists." Whether or not they're actually racist, or a ****, or a racist ****, is besides the point.
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Perhaps i am not interpreting your statement correctly or perhaps you (or i) misunderstood civver's post. Projection is a defense mechanism to an uncomfortable or intolerable unconscious thought (as civver suggested. I did not assume he was saying that these people were behaving as ****s or racists). This creates anxiety (as cake suggested) which is relieved by the projected response. Actually, your earlier comment about the right wing may very well be interpreted as a projection.
 
Leonel said:
To me, this obsession over 'manliness' is not only rather childish (to be as cliche as possible) but it speaks to what I've been observing and recently noticing in the American male lately.

American Men, in general, are essentially children. You can see it in the ads that are targeted towards them (Old Spice), the cars that American men drive (big pickup trucks, Mustang/GTO/Whatever "muscle" cars), cultural phenomena (Chuck Norris jokes), soap with packaging that's way more masculine than any soap should deserve, all of which are building up the cultural ideal of what a man is. Even the way they behave where they have to 'protect their honor' or 'be a man' when it comes to conflicts that end in prison time which almost always can be best resolved and avoided by a little humility. These may be small things but small things do stack up, as comes the phrase "the straw that broke the camels back."

All of this coupled with American men essentially being pampered, idolized even, in comparison to women and minority groups to where you don't see the American Man as anything other than the standard default makes the reaction of the American Man to anything that could possibly be seen as them "losing" something to anyone probably leads to this affinity towards their perception of 'manliness' and probably their vigorous and ever escalating obsession over it, something of which we're seeing now with the current administration's claims that America is 'losing' and 'winning' when international diplomacy and relations are far more complicated than a game.

The problem is this thing has probably been happening for decades now. Childish men raising even more childish men raising even more childish men, passing down attitudes on what they believe it is to be a man. Through this, it could be seen that the defense of manliness is also seen as a defense for paternal knowledge and honor as well, adding another level of vigorous defense that has the high potential of a violent confrontation.

But then again, that's just my opinion.
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What do you think about American women?
 
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