The Rights of Men

[brennan]

What my position is that MRAs and feminists should merge into a single collective, from which they can pool their resources to assist gender-related issues and problems.

Utopian.

But there's a fundamental problem isn't there? Feminists believe all those problems are the result of systemic sexism and patriarchy. MRAs do not and believe that many feminist attempts to fight these problems are useless or counterproductive or exacerbate issues for men because the feminists are diagnosing the wrong problem and prescribing the wrong remedy. How do you suggest the two are reconciled?

 

[useless]

It's not utopian but it's also doable. Feminists also believe the patriarchy hurts men as well which is why i believe there is a possibility of an alliance. MRA's can claim they're wrong, but when it's the issue of masculinity leading to problems such as suicide and a lack of discussion around it, it should be obvious why feminists would be a natural ally on such a topic.

Obviously you'd have to get rid of the likes of AVFM and Paul Elam, but that would require some actual action from MRAs as a whole, rather than just posting on reddit or facebook.

 

[brennan]

So to sum up, feminism can be reconciled with the MRM when MRAs shut up and become feminists?

 

[Rashiminos]

It's not utopian but it's also doable. Feminists also believe the patriarchy hurts men as well which is why i believe there is a possibility of an alliance.

We're not the men you're looking for, then. There are male feminist(s/ allies) out there, if you can trust them long enough.

MRA's can claim they're wrong, but when it's the issue of masculinity leading to problems such as suicide and a lack of discussion around it, it should be obvious why feminists would be a natural ally on such a topic.

Despite the oft-quoted efforts of feminists, it's not obvious.

Obviously you'd have to get rid of the likes of AVFM and Paul Elam, but that would require some actual action from MRAs as a whole, rather than just posting on reddit or facebook.

Useless, which branches of feminism do you feel like cutting off today? (It wouldn't be hard to construe asking for Elam's head as a request for appeasement.)

 

[useless]

I'd be cool with cutting off radical feminists and TERFS.

 

[bhavv]

Radical feminism seems much more common than whatever other forms of feminism exist. Maybe because feminism actually is radical.

 

[warpus]

A more accurate version would be this:

Somebody says: "Hey, here's an issue that affects men, can't we talk about that?"

Then somebody else comes out and says: "Feminism can help with that".

And another comes out and proclaims that feminists hate men.

And then you come in and say that we aren't allowed to talk about men's rights and issues unless it's in the context of feminism and that we should just talk about feminism because reasons.

Which is just a bunch of hogwash.

 

[Ryika]

I'd be cool with cutting off radical feminists and TERFS.

http://www.nouse.co.uk/2015/11/16/o...-to-mark-international-mens-day-read-it-here/

Would you classify these as radical feminists or normal feminists?

 

[Rashiminos]

I'd be cool with cutting off radical feminists and TERFS.

Would you be opposed to MRAs attacking radfems and terfs in unison with other feminists, or is that a feminist-only operation?

 

[useless]

http://www.nouse.co.uk/2015/11/16/o...-to-mark-international-mens-day-read-it-here/

Would you classify these as radical feminists or normal feminists?

I don't speak for all feminists.

Would you be opposed to MRAs attacking radfems and terfs in unison with other feminists, or is that a feminist-only operation?

The problem with this is people often assume ALL feminists are rad-fems, much like Bhavv did earlier.

 

[Akka]

I tried to engage with debate in this thread and got told that i was essentially a gender quisling, a man who hates himself and not a "proper feminist" (whatever that means).

To be honest, I haven't really noticed the "engage with debate" part.

 

[Rashiminos]

The problem with this is people often assume ALL feminists are rad-fems, much like Bhavv did earlier.

I wonder how that misconception could develop... (and yes, I am aware of elements of the manosphere who are intentionally pushing the conflation).

 

[useless]

I wonder how that misconception could develop... (and yes, I am aware of elements of the manosphere who are intentionally pushing the conflation).

Elements? The main players in the manosphere constantly talk about how most feminists are rad fems.

 

[Ryika]

I don't speak for all feminists.

I asked for your personal opinion, I did not ask you to speak for all feminists.

 

[useless]

Then i wouldn't call them radical.

 

[Rashiminos]

Elements? The main players in the manosphere constantly talk about how most feminists are rad fems.

The keyword there was intentional, believe it or not.

 

[Ryika]

Then i wouldn't call them radical.

Thanks for answering!

 

[Manfred Belheim]

http://www.nouse.co.uk/2015/11/16/o...-to-mark-international-mens-day-read-it-here/

Would you classify these as radical feminists or normal feminists?

Oh brilliant. It's just as bad over here now is it?

 

[warpus]

What my position is that MRAs and feminists should merge into a single collective, from which they can pool their resources to assist gender-related issues and problems.

Aren't all MRAs according to you extremists, though? Why would feminists ally themselves with woman-hating extremists? And why would woman-hating extremists ally themselves with feminists?

And why is it so bad to want to approach men's issues from a male point of view? Why attempt to come up with a highly illogical solution that's never going to work instead? Seems like nothing but "ideology for ideology's sake".

 

[Manfred Belheim]

If Men want to share their dislike of women and feminists as a whole on forums such as the Redpill on reddit, good for them but know this; people will look at that and judge them to be a bunch of misogynists because all they ever do is complain and hate and whine.

Perhaps if you stopped seeing "women" and "feminists" as synonyms then you'd realise that disagreeing with feminism is not misogyny.