The Soviet Union

[Winner]

Not anglo-saxon either... I'm Dutch.
There is no difference. You simply interpret them differently.

No, you're just wrong. Read again the definitions you've pasted. Personally, I don't get what's so hard to understands about it.

No, I do not see the difference.
Texans are distincly different from other Americans (no disrespect intended to either group!). They may not be seen as a nation anymore, but they surely were in the 1830's.
I've been to the Alamo this summer and the place is just packed with pure "Texanness". The people who fought and died there definately fought for their Texan Republic, for their nation.

That doesn't mean they're a nation, jeez. They're Americans. I am Czech, but I feel a strong affiliation to my home city. Does that mean, that people of Brno are a nation? Oh my God...

That's just bitterness speaking. Move on. The damage can never be repaired, not even by excuses or damage-payments or whatever. Just don't dig yourself a deeper hole by being bitter about it.

If it was a bitterness, I'd feel the same towards Germans. I don't and I've explained why. You don't understand - your problem.

 

[Darkness]

No, you're just wrong. Read again the definitions you've pasted. Personally, I don't get what's so hard to understands about it.

No, I suggest you read it again:

na·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nshn)
n.

A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government;

Your example: the Kurds, have never been organized under one (independent government. They are not a nation, but a people.
The Texans were united under an independent government in the 1830's with their own territory, hence they were a nation/country, etc.

That doesn't mean they're a nation, jeez. They're Americans. I am Czech, but I feel a strong affiliation to my home city. Does that mean, that people of Brno are a nation? Oh my God...

You're twisting words!
I am not saying they are a nation now, but they were in the 1830's, shortly before they joined the US.
You're twisting it to cities...

If it was a bitterness, I'd feel the same towards Germans. I don't and I've explained why. You don't understand - your problem.

You're contradicting your own words:

In case you haven't notice, the USSR - the Evil Empire, as called by your former president - dissolved just 15 years ago. Then, I don't think that a regular Mr. Ivan is my enemy, communist plotter or whatever. I say, that Russians as a nation didn't come to the terms with their past in the way the Germans did. Germans had to earn their respect after the WW2 and it took several decades. Russians on the other hand think, that with the fall of USSR, there is nobody to blame for its crimes.

Here you actually admitted that the Germans acted differently and that they did their "redemption" better. And in your latest post they're again the same as the Russians. Contradicting, isn't it?

Case closed....

 

[Che Guava]

Darkness: your own earlier definition of nation was more coplete, as it included this important bit:

A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality

It's this that makes the Kurdish, Scottish, or Navajo people a nation, even if they are not in a nation-state. I think texas is a little stretch for a nation, but I guess you could make the argument that they were at one point.

 

[Darkness]

Darkness: your own earlier definition of nation was more coplete

I know, but I was just highlighting the part which Winner was conveniently ignoring the entire time...

It's this that makes the Kurdish, Scottish, or Navajo people a nation, even if they are not in a nation-state.

Which is debatable, and highly dependant on which parts the definition are most important.
I'd say the first. It's not listed as the first for nothing. But sure, other parts of the definition can tip the scales.

I think texas is a little stretch for a nation, but I guess you could make the argument that they were at one point.

I believe that is what I have been saying all along.

 

[Che Guava]

I know, but I was just highlighting the part which Winner was conveniently ignoring the entire time...

Fair enough.

Which is debatable, and highly dependant on which parts the definition are most important.
I'd say the first. It's not listed as the first for nothing. But sure, other parts of the definition can tip the scales.

I think its just that the word has two (or three) completely different meanings. I personally reserve the term 'nation' for an ethnic or cultural group, and use state/republic/etc to talk about the country itself.

I believe that is what I have been saying all along.

I didn't say that I agree, I just said that an argument like that should not be dismissed outright. I always viewed the republic of texas and texans as more of an american colony than a nation, seeing as they share most of the same lineage, language, and customs.

 

[Winner]

No, I suggest you read it again:


Your example: the Kurds, have never been organized under one (independent government. They are not a nation, but a people.
The Texans were united under an independent government in the 1830's with their own territory, hence they were a nation/country, etc.

People = nation. Only in English (and its derivates), the nation is confused with country. But it confuse liberals and leftists too, so it is not an isolated case.

You're twisting words!
I am not saying they are a nation now, but they were in the 1830's, shortly before they joined the US.
You're twisting it to cities...

This whole pseudo-discussion is pointless. It is based just on the language differences.

You're contradicting your own words:

Here you actually admitted that the Germans acted differently and that they did their "redemption" better. And in your latest post they're again the same as the Russians. Contradicting, isn't it?

Case closed....

Only in your twisted mind There is nothing contradictory. You should read it again.

Case closed

 

[nonconformist]

I think peiople are forgetting the USSR of of 1986 was not the USSR of 1936.

 

[amadeus]

I think peiople are forgetting the USSR of of 1986 was not the USSR of 1936.

I'm not accusing you of saying this, but I don't think anyone would say "it's not as bad anymore" is a legitimate defense.

 

[Gelion]

^ neither is "we are the best and we know how to govern you better than yourselves" right?

 

[garric]

Bleh

You're a fool. And you're not a true EU citizen. You see, normal people realize that blaming "evilness" on Russian citizens is stupid. Only very ignorant people think that every German is a Nazi, and you are very ignorant to think every Russian person is an "evil communist" as you so put it. Some people eat up Cold War era propaganda like this guy though.

Here's a hint: The only person here that's living in a Soviet Era mindset is YOU.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Why is rmsharpe still posting in threads about the Soviet Union? If the flood of PMs I received after that thread was closed are any indication, I thoroughly caned him into submission on any discussion about the Soviet Union (and made him beg for his own thread to be closed).

Moderator Action: Warned for flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Winner]

You're a fool. And you're not a true EU citizen. You see, normal people realize that blaming "evilness" on Russian citizens is stupid. Only very ignorant people think that every German is a Nazi, and you are very ignorant to think every Russian person is an "evil communist" as you so put it. Some people eat up Cold War era propaganda like this guy though.

Here's a hint: The only person here that's living in a Soviet Era mindset is YOU.

Stop putting your b/s into my mouth.

 

[Quasar1011]

I'm still watching Russia. The Bible says that Russia will start* a major war in the future. The future could be soon...

*or be drawn into a major war on the side of its allies, chief of which will be Persia.

 

[amadeus]

Why is rmsharpe still posting in threads about the Soviet Union? If the flood of PMs I received after that thread was closed are any indication, I thoroughly caned him into submission on any discussion about the Soviet Union (and made him beg for his own thread to be closed).

There. Now at least you're not the only one flaming.

 

[Commy]

you are very ignorant to think every Russian person is an "evil communist"

Yes, its wrong. For example, I'm good communist
2 Quasar1011: explain in more details, please

 

[Kamilian]

What Quasar is referring to is a biblical verse in the Book of Revelations (which is a series of prophecies concerning the prelude to Armageddon and Armageddon itself), in which it basically says that the land of Gog and Magog (which refer to Russia - I forget the exact reason that it's called "Gog" and "Magog") will ally with enemies of Israel (presumably the most-fervently anti-Israel Islamic countries) and try to destroy it. However, despite overwhelming odds, Israel will survive and its enemies' campaign will be a disastrous failure.
People knowing this prophecy have debated whether the Six-Day War was the realization of that prophecy.

 

[Commy]

Hm, I thought Gog and Magog must be associated with Iraq or USA, not with Russia...

 

[bhsup]

It is simply conjecture that Gog and Magog refer to Russia. There is no positive identification at this time. If you're around when the events of Revelation unfold, you might find out for sure, but otherwise I'd not accept any absolute declaration as to what it refers to.

 

[Gelion]

People knowing this prophecy have debated whether the Six-Day War was the realization of that prophecy.

Thats an interesting idea, I didn't think about this war in that way. I am sure that Gog or Magor referrs to Russia, but only one of the names, the other one being some huge state in Europe.....

at least according to some views that I read

 

[nonconformist]

It is simply conjecture that Gog and Magog refer to Russia. There is no positive identification at this time. If you're around when the events of Revelation unfold, you might find out for sure, but otherwise I'd not accept any absolute declaration as to what it refers to.

Exactly. I could say that Magog is Belgium, and Gog is the Vatican City, and be as right.