1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Stupidity of AI in War after 1.21.....

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Sentinali, Apr 23, 2002.

  1. IronicWarrior19

    IronicWarrior19 Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    151
    The Aiz alwayz sucked at warz d00d. J00 gotta learn that bfore j00 become 733t d00dz.
     
  2. allhailIndia

    allhailIndia Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,328
    Location:
    Casa de Non Compos Mentis
    I also faced this problem before 1.21f.

    I think the AI attacks if you are very far away and there is no real immediate threat of an invasion soon(??:confused: )

    The Settler Diarrhoea is a nightmare on huge maps as the Ai has cities in the middle of mountain ranges and just plonks them there with defensive units to eat into my cultural boundary and it takes anywhere between 45-50 turns to culturally assimilate it:mad:
     
  3. Fanny Brice

    Fanny Brice Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    OK... how's this for stupid?

    Egypt is in the middle of a large continent shared by 5 civs. (Huge map, about 10 civs, Monarch level).

    After a long war with me (Rome) and Greece they are militarily weakened yet still have a large empire to defend. France jumps in. After a while England too. Commie Egypt has drafted every citizen possible and their largest cities are down to 1's and 2's... yet they still have a decent size empire.

    Since this is a new patch, I think the game has a problem when I keep seeing French units moving by one of my cities. I think the game is stuck in a loop. Turns out the French are moving one huge stack of 211 units!!!!! (I counted them!). This stack is mostly Infantry with a mixed back of riflemen, Musketeers, swordmen and a few spearmen. To boot, this is not the only stack of French, but the largest (I've seen).

    They are moving from one Egyptian city to the next. Attacking... conquering and moving on.

    Ok... think...

    1). The Egyptians are on their last leg... no defense left... no allies (that is why I have declared war on them again... better me to gain territory...). If the AI divided this stack and sent part of it to every Egyptian city, the French would wipe them out within a few turns.

    2). How can the French support this massive army? In addition to the many other troops I have seen on other parts of the map. (The French are Communist, but they still have to pay support for such a large force).

    3) Why the spearmen... and the warriors they still have? When you have 150+ or so Infantry, is it too hard to disband a few obsolet units?

    4) Where is the Cavalry? They have horses... what gives?

    Totally dumb.

    But since France is on my continent with such a huge force, for the first time I am eager to get my hands on a nuclear bomb! This force is unstopable... although poorly lead.

    -- -- -- -- --

    I have noticed that Cavalry will attack Infantry more aggressively. With 1.7, I noticed a complete aversion of cav vs. infantry.

    Also, I have noticed AI units attack even when they were down to one hit point. This is most surprising. Granted, they still died, but they took a chance.

    My current game is my most combat engaging with 1.2.... I'm still noticing some minute differences. Overall an improvement, but still some dumb things happening.
     
  4. Sentinali

    Sentinali Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB, Canada
    In my last game on Monarch the Frenchies to the N and I (Egypt) had been very peaceful for the entire game. When I invaded they had a 210 stack of infantry waiting for me!
     
  5. sappling

    sappling Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    Colorado
    4) Where is the Cavalry? They have horses... what gives?


    In the game I am playing with v1.21, regent level, the AI Rome built no calvary (had horses) and instead used hundreds of rifleman to attack me. They were no match for my fortified rifleman and later infantry.

    A little bit later in the game, it was interesting to see how dumb the AI was. The continent was like a big doughnut with a huge lake in the middle. I had the AI Rome blocked in on both ends. I would attack one side of the Roman Empire and the AI would move all his hundreds of rifleman/infantry to where I attacked, leaving the other side of the empire empty. I then would attack the other side left empty and captured many cities. All the AI troops would then start marching back to the other side where I just attacked. I would then go and attack the opposite side where the AI just left. I never had to fight very many units because the AI kept moving his piles back and forth. The AI had way more units then me but I captured destroyed about 10 cities before I made peace with all his hundreds of units roaming around in the middle.
     
  6. ETO_Peregrine

    ETO_Peregrine Martinet

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    USA
    The best (worst) bit of AI military stupidity, IMO, is the computer's customary way of declaring war when it's core is located on a different continent than the player's.

    I recently experienced this flub in a Regent game as Persia. Babylon, two continents removed, sent a galleon to barf up a few longbowmen on my homeland, which was entirely railroaded and defended by infantry (my tech lead wasn't that great, though). Predicting what was about to happen, I ordered Hammie to leave, inspiring him to declare war while his troops (D:1) struggled on the beach. Ooops. Rinse, repeat idefinately.

    With 1.21 I've noticed the monster infantry stacks. During the same game as the above Egypt declared war on me in the same fashion as Babylon (a single war chariot this time). In retaliation, I took a coastal city that had some luxuries that the break in trade had denied me. Sure enough, about a half gross of infantry and riflemen appeared. I had cut all rail lines to the coastal city, so I sent my armor to a hill right outside the city radius and defended the tank stack with infantry. As the giant Egyptian stack mindlessly filed by, my infantry pummeled it and my tanks ate up the undefended wounded who retreated. Within a few turns, Egypt spent its entire standing army on my invasion force. Thebes, here we come.

    Mainly, the Civ III AI is trying to play a game of chess as if all the pieces were pawns. I don't think any amount of .bic patches can fix this problem.
     
  7. God

    God God

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,354
    I noticed that the AI is also really obbsessed with its UU.

    For ex: Babylon bowman has defense of 2, same as spearmen. So babs often build bowmen to defend their cities over those spearmen. Then they find themselves screwed when Middle Ages come around with no upgrading. All high defense UUs are used in this way.
    Also UUs that come in Middle Ages, like the Rider, Samurai and War Elephant are used rather than cavalry. Cavalry is far better than the rider and elephant and a better on offense than the Samurai.

    Those massive stacks are really stupid. I just nuke the stack and take the damage even if its on my land. A little cost compared to all those units destroyed.

    Oh well this will make emperor and later on diety easier for me. In both levels the time for human to war is Industrial era because I can't win earlier on. The AI will screw itself over wasting those riflemen.
     
  8. LaRo

    LaRo Dead Rat

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2001
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    on the road
    We won't have to suffer this stupid Ai anymore with the XP. :D

    Hey, what did I say? It's make no sense: I will have to play against this Ai on the WWII scenario (It's a must, I will kill someone if there is no. :mad: )

    Firaxis, Improve the game, always (It's an order!)
     
  9. Sultan Bhargash

    Sultan Bhargash Trickster Reincarnated

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    7,608
    Location:
    Missing The Harem
    The AI is totally stupid. They rarely build cavalry and never ever build tanks it seems to me. Attack them, and they might march a column of 70 infantry into your territory. Cut it off by bombing improvements, take their city, and they slowly march back. I have seen this too many times to laugh about it.
     
  10. allhailIndia

    allhailIndia Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2001
    Messages:
    3,328
    Location:
    Casa de Non Compos Mentis
    I remeber once while playing, as Indians, on MArla Singer's world Map, that the Chinese crossed, Asia and Africa with a stack of 30-40 riders to take out the last Persian city, defended by 1/2 spearmen:D .

    Of course, after they triumphantly destroyed the Persians, I got Cavalry and turned them into mincemeat before their army had any Idea what was going on:lol: ;)
     
  11. Sultan Bhargash

    Sultan Bhargash Trickster Reincarnated

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    Messages:
    7,608
    Location:
    Missing The Harem
    If you ever played Axis and Allies, you will notice that the AI behaves as if it the Russians from that game - all defensive units piled up in one place. Okay, so we wont attack it. I worried seeing this big stack so close to cities that only had one or two infantry defending, but you know what, there are about a million ways of keeping them from using the stack against you.

    I would like to see the AI build that same stack but have it be all offense or at least half offense. Ah, forget it, I will play multiplayer when it comes out...
     
  12. Walla28

    Walla28 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    9
    I have witnessed much of the same on 1.21.

    Playing modern game, large map, there are 4 other large civs who are all equals on the tech tree.
    No one else uses tanks. Even the germans dont use Panzers.

    I invaded the one continent (persia), and a stack of around 30 paratroopers and about 5 mech infantry walked past one of my cities without even trying to take it.

    The other civs landed a highly mobile force of 16 mech infranrty on my home continent whoch are pretty useless when attacking cities with mech infantry defending.

    Seems a shame, because they used Carrier Battle groups and air support with their attack well. But why no tanks????
     
  13. Maccabeus

    Maccabeus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    30
    I think there's something of a desperation factor in some forms of Settler Diarrhea. In my most recently completed game, I was playing the Iroquois and the Aztecs were a real military threat, as well as being in the way of my need to expand before the Russians and Americans gobbled up the land. So I beat them up as quickly as I could, soon whittling them down to a few bits of out of the way land.

    Much further north there were still some gaps in my cultural control where I hadn't been fool enough to settle in the middle of huge deserts or in a jungle. The next thing I know the Aztecs are marching settlers straight through my territory and plunking down cities in those uninhabitable regions. Early on, I had threatened them when they started sending settlers; by this point, I just snickered, refused to connect any roads to those cities, and waited for them to defect. (At which point I made them as useful as I could...I didn't want to waste the effort of razing them while my borders were still open and invite more annoying settlers.)
     
  14. Lt. 'Killer' M.

    Lt. 'Killer' M. Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    7,475
    another example of how stupid the AI is: check this screenshot:

    idioticwar.jpg

    Greece (dark blue) has been busy sneaking a musketman and 4 Longbowmen around my territory to get at Bejing, thus giving me time to bring my knights at them. If they`d gone for moscow they`d have stood a decent chance, but this way.......

    I ask them to leave - WAR!

    Why???? I`m ahead ine verything, and off all the civs that ever declared war, only Rome is still alive (dark red). I have 33% of the 'power' (F8-screen). I`m outteched by a few (deity, after all), but at most by two tech. My military is strong compared to everyone else!

    What a BS!!!!!
     
  15. -proletarian-

    -proletarian- Chairman and CEO

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    the land of milk and honey, Canada.

    :lol:
     
  16. Maccabeus

    Maccabeus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Messages:
    30
    I haven't even patched my game yet and I get things like that too. My most recent completed game (a heart-breaking almost-win), the Russians were to the north of myself (the Iroquois), the Aztecs, and the Americans. FAR to the north, with the rest of us packed together in the south. I made Russia angry and they declared war on me. Knowing how far it was, I was not in the least concerned. Several turns later, a few warriors straggled in and were easily dispatched by my swordsmen (I think that's what they were).

    Many years later, after I had ruined Montezuma (a few refugees escaped to a nearby continent), the Russians declared war on America, beyond my territory, and either they did not ask me for or I would not grant a right-of-passage. So they were forced to march the whole distance across my territory, with cavalry, musketmen, pikemen, archers, and _warriors_. I decided not to interfere with them, since they were not much in the way and were bothering my rivals. Just as they reached the other end, peace was declared and they began marching back, warriors and all. Since by this time I had completed my rail system, I offered them a right of passage agreement and told them to hurry off.

    For a little perspective, I don't have a screenshot, but the continent was shaped roughly like a right bracket: ], with longer end-pieces. I held the middle, with the Americans and Russians at their respective ends.
     
  17. Zouave

    Zouave Crusader

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,603
    I once was far ahead of the Aztecs in everything. Then, for some bizarre reason, the stupid Culture Border flipped over a mine and garrisoned fortress in a city's radius. I refused to leave, so the Aztecs go to war. I start kicking their butts, and they refuse to make peace at anything other than a Peace Treaty for Peace Treaty basis. So I exterminated them all.

    Another time the English declared war when I tried to plant a spy - that despite the fact I had just developed Motorized Transport and was converting a huge cavalry force to tanks. They had just developed only Military Tradition. I wiped them out too.

    Stupid AI. :sleep:
     
  18. Kingpin

    Kingpin Captain-General

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    Canada
    Try this out:

    I found that if I do not trade my maps with anyone, they do not come on my land. They only enter your land if they know there are gaps for them to settle.
     
  19. Lt. 'Killer' M.

    Lt. 'Killer' M. Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    7,475
    If I don`t trade they will usually send lotsa units to scout and declare war if I block their paths. Also, they`ll simply send in the settlers anyway if there`s more AI territory on the other side of me (which they know about because they know there`s military there). Even open land will attract them because they know about barbarians. Land with barbs and no other troops = free land - send settlers, thats how the AI thinks!
     
  20. sealman

    sealman Hater of Babylonians

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3,326
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    notice that this says "in therory" :lol: :lol:
     

Share This Page