The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Sommerswerd]

Haven't seen one of those in a while, now that I think about it.

I see them once in a while when I'm driving out into the rural hillside areas. I wonder if they are mostly shot or mostly caught in traps/snares.

Turkeys are lucky that they're so damned large... they are so delicious they'd be more popular than chickens if they didn't take 5 hours to cook. If they were a lot smaller there would be no wild turkeys to shoot, with any weapon, because we would have them all pent up in coops.

Also... there's a special place in hell for whoever came up with ground turkey. It mystifies me how you can turn something so succulent and delicious into something that looks like sun-bleached, freezer-burned hamburger and tastes like minced cardboard... or wet sawdust.

 

[Samson]

Winnie the Pooh gun violence guide sparks outrage in US

Cindy Campos’s five-year-old son was so excited about the Winnie the Pooh book he got at school that he asked her to read it with him as soon as he got home.

But her heart sank when she realised it was a tutorial about what to do when “danger is near”, advising kids to lock the doors, turn off the lights and quietly hide.​

One day Eeyore was very sad, and he picked up his AR 15 and heading into 100 acre wood.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

so I assume these are the kinds of books someone like Gavin Newsome doesn't want kids to read; meanwhile Ron DeSantis has his own list...

 

[Samson]

so I assume these are the kinds of books someone like Gavin Newsome doesn't want kids to read; meanwhile Ron DeSantis has his own list...

I do not think anyone has an issue with kids reading this book if they want to.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

maybe not, although he (and others) takes up this lamentation about how terrible it is that kids have to learn about needing to be safe (i.e. they wouldn't have to if the US had more gun control)

like safety isn't some worthy goal in and of itself?

 

[Samson]

maybe not, although he (and others) takes up this lamentation about how terrible it is that kids have to learn about needing to be safe (i.e. they wouldn't have to if the US had more gun control)

like safety isn't some worthy goal in and of itself?

Surely the fact that the kids need to learn from Winnie the Pooh how to be safe when someone is trying to shoot them, and the states response is this book that seems to be the problem.

 

[AmazonQueen]

maybe not, although he (and others) takes up this lamentation about how terrible it is that kids have to learn about needing to be safe (i.e. they wouldn't have to if the US had more gun control)

like safety isn't some worthy goal in and of itself?

Placing responsibility for gun safety on children because adults aren't responsible enough doesn't seem likely to work to me.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

I don't have access to the book* to say whether it teaches actual "gun safety" or not e.g. how to handle a loaded gun. From what I've glanced, it seems to me that staying out of harm's way is something everyone should think about whether an intruder has a gun, an axe, or anything. Someone with actual experience could teach that, so if it's some stupid bear that's the real issue here, I can see the parents' point...

*although it doesn't sound like a retail book with binding but some pamphlet-like material the school gave out.

 

[E.man]

More Americans mass shooting each other......

 

[Lexicus]

Came across an interesting fact about historical US gun culture while reading about the Stono Rebellion...

A malaria epidemic had recently killed many whites in Charleston, weakening the power of slaveholders. Lastly, historians have suggested the slaves organized their revolt to take place on Sunday, when planters would be occupied in church and might be unarmed. The Security Act of 1739 (which required all white males to carry arms even to church on Sundays) had been passed in August of that year in response to earlier runaways and minor rebellions, but it had not fully taken effect. Local officials were authorized to mount penalties against white men who did not carry arms after 29 September.[6]

 

[EgonSpengler]

I was shocked - shocked! - to learn that the guns used by the gangs in Haiti are coming from... drumroll... the United States. I mean, duh. Haiti. Mexico. What other countries can we transform into real-life The Purge theme parks? This is not US foreign policy, or at least not primarily. There are plenty of places you can point to that we turned into smoldering wrecks, by way of official action. These aren't ISIS or the Taliban. No, this is just the free market at play, smearing blood on its face and howling at the Moon. People like Bane and The Lord Humungus were only taking advantage of their God-given right to crush their enemies, see them driven before them, and hear the lamentations of their women.

 

[Lexicus]

I was shocked - shocked! - to learn that the guns used by the gangs in Haiti are coming from... drumroll... the United States. I mean, duh. Haiti. Mexico. What other countries can we transform into real-life The Purge theme parks? This is not US foreign policy, or at least not primarily. There are plenty of places you can point to that we turned into smoldering wrecks, by way of official action. These aren't ISIS or the Taliban. No, this is just the free market at play, smearing blood on its face and howling at the Moon. People like Bane and The Lord Humungus were only taking advantage of their God-given right to crush their enemies, see them driven before them, and hear the lamentations of their women.

Look on the bright side. All those guns are making Haiti and Mexico so much more free!

 

[EgonSpengler]

Look on the bright side. All those guns are making Haiti and Mexico so much more free!

Indeed! Mexico also provides us with an example of how ordinary citizens can arm themselves against the criminals who would do them harm:

AP, 29 June 2023 - "Anti-gang community defense activist Hipólito Mora slain in Mexico"

MEXICO CITY (AP) — The leader of an armed civilian movement that once drove a drug cartel out of the western Mexico state of Michoacan has been killed, authorities confirmed Thursday.

Tributes quickly rolled in for slain “self defense” leader Hipólito Mora. He was one of the last surviving leaders of Michoacan’s armed vigilante movement, in which farmers and ranchers banded together to expel the Knights Templar cartel from the state between 2013 and 2014.

AP, 2 July 2023 - "Drug cartel violence flares in western Mexico after vigilante leader’s killing"

APATZINGAN, Mexico (AP) — The drug cartel violence that citizen self-defense leader Hipolito Mora gave his life fighting flared anew on Sunday, just one day after he was buried, as shootings and road blockades hit the city of Apatzingan, a regional hub in Mexico’s hot lands.

Roads in and out of Apatzingan were blocked Sunday morning by trucks and buses pulled across the road by cartel gunmen, as the vehicles’ owners stood by helplessly.

 

[EgonSpengler]

From the Gun Violence Archive:

I like that they include injuries. Most of the time, when gun violence is talked about in the media, only deaths are mentioned.

Note that the GVA tries to only post data it can cite by way of news reports. If you go to the GVA main page, it shows a table of the current data for the current year. If you click on one of the categories, it takes you to the list of the individual incidents, with links to the news article that reported the incident.

p.s. This is all for the United States, if that wasn't obvious.

 

[Crezth]

I was shocked - shocked! - to learn that the guns used by the gangs in Haiti are coming from... drumroll... the United States. I mean, duh. Haiti. Mexico. What other countries can we transform into real-life The Purge theme parks? This is not US foreign policy, or at least not primarily. There are plenty of places you can point to that we turned into smoldering wrecks, by way of official action. These aren't ISIS or the Taliban. No, this is just the free market at play, smearing blood on its face and howling at the Moon. People like Bane and The Lord Humungus were only taking advantage of their God-given right to crush their enemies, see them driven before them, and hear the lamentations of their women.

Look, there’s a proud tradition of that in this country. You think this Big Mouth Bass Talking Fish-you-can-mount-on-a-wall factory built itself? You think that sewage outflow pipe was already here? You think those Cherokee just up and went to Oklahoma all by themselves? Psh, liberals.

 

[uppi]

From the Gun Violence Archive:

I like that they include injuries. Most of the time, when gun violence is talked about in the media, only deaths are mentioned.

Note that the GVA tries to only post data it can cite by way of news reports. If you go to the GVA main page, it shows a table of the current data for the current year. If you click on one of the categories, it takes you to the list of the individual incidents, with links to the news article that reported the incident.

p.s. This is all for the United States, if that wasn't obvious.

Do Deaths exclude suicides? Otherwise the numbers would be quite strange

 

[Crezth]

A quarter buck-thousand kill themselves with their 2nd Amendment rights every year in the land of the free, brave etc.

 

[EgonSpengler]

CNN, 16 July 2023 - "Federal judge rules Oregon gun law doesn’t violate Second Amendment"

US District Court Judge Karin Immergut ruled that Ballot Measure 114’s restrictions on large-capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds are constitutional because these magazines are “not commonly used for self-defense, and are therefore not protected by the Second Amendment.”

The law strengthens background checks and [...]closes the “Charleston Loophole,” which allows gun purchases to move forward by default after three days even if a background check has not been completed.

“Magazines are an accessory to firearms, rather than a specific type of firearm,” Immergut said. “At the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification through to the late nineteenth century, firearm accessories like cartridge boxes – which held ammunition but, unlike modern magazines, did not feed the ammunition into firearms – were not considered ‘arms’ but instead were considered ‘accouterments,’” the ruling said.

She should be more precise with her language. Based on the data cited in the post above, it seems to me that guns are not commonly used for self-defense, either.

 

[Lexicus]

CNN, 16 July 2023 - "Federal judge rules Oregon gun law doesn’t violate Second Amendment"





She should be more precise with her language. Based on the data cited in the post above, it seems to me that guns are not commonly used for self-defense, either.

Odds on SCOTUS overturning this?

 

[EgonSpengler]

Odds on SCOTUS overturning this?

I was thinking about that too. One place we see conservative horse manure promptly shoveled into the gutter is in the courts, especially these last handful of years. I was a little surprised to find that Judge Immergut was a Trump nominee, but otoh, the Federal Courts have kept insanity and inanity in check, as much as anyone has these last several years.

In January, the Supreme Court decided to allow New York's new gun law to remain in effect, pending the appeal; and in May, Justice Barrett rejected the request by gun enthusiasts to put a stay on Naperville, IL's ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. I wondered back then if the conservative Justices might be looking for a way to rule on some gun laws as not being in violation of the 2nd Amendment, and I wonder now if Judge Immergut may have given them something to chew on. There are in fact American conservatives who are not insane 2nd Amendment absolutists, but they face an uphill battle against the violence fetishists because of the 2A.

So yes, I could imagine SCOTUS upholding this decision.