The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

Losing different people isn't the same, no. If I had to sum up my theory of that, it revolves around how much of yourself you have put outside yourself and into that person. How much of the internal you is your interactions with that person. And yes, I'd guess most people have less of themselves invested in their elders than, especially, their kids. The kids actually hold your dreams for the future, the parts of you that you see as bigger and longer lasting than you. So losing that and being left with just... you. "Hollow" and "empty" seem to be words that bounce around, like a tree set to collapse under its own weight. If I quote the friend of a co-worker who lost a husband, then a child, it would paraphrase: When I lost my husband I lost myself. When I lost my son I lost everything.

Well, there are two things at work there: First, a state of mind or pattern of behavior has to be harmful ("maladaptive") to be diagnosable as a disorder. Second, a person needs to be diagnosed by a professional for us to say they have a disorder (and I think it has to be in a clinical setting - mental health professionals aren't supposed to diagnose someone from a distance). We can't declare that anyone who's lost a loved one has a disorder as a result. Being sad isn't a disorder. I was thinking that probably 100% of the people in the study group are sad, but then it occurred to me that some of the people diagnosed with a disorder might not be sad. Not being sad after losing a loved one is probably a symptom of something. "Lack of affect" is a symptom of depression, for example.
So if we translate that to who is diagnosed/disordered, and who is "not disordered," we kinda sorta back to who is trundling along just fine for everyone else and being useful enough.
 
Losing different people isn't the same, no. If I had to sum up my theory of that, it revolves around how much of yourself you have put outside yourself and into that person. How much of the internal you is your interactions with that person. And yes, I'd guess most people have less of themselves invested in their elders than, especially, their kids. The kids actually hold your dreams for the future, the parts of you that you see as bigger and longer lasting than you. So losing that and being left with just... you. "Hollow" and "empty" seem to be words that bounce around, like a tree set to collapse under its own weight. If I quote the friend of a co-worker who lost a husband, then a child, it would paraphrase: When I lost my husband I lost myself. When I lost my son I lost everything.
As someone who doesn't have any children, that sounds plausible to me. I'm not going to ask any of the parents here to ponder something so terrible just for my edification, though; I can go read a book, if I really want to know.

So if we translate that to who is diagnosed/disordered, and who is "not disordered," we kinda sorta back to who is trundling along just fine for everyone else and being useful enough.
Indirectly. What it means is that people with a medical problem who haven't sought medical help can't be counted as having a medical problem. In this particular study, they're probably only measuring those who told them they'd been examined, diagnosed and/or treated. It seems weird that someone would agree to participate in a study and then lie, but you never know. More likely, someone could have a condition that hasn't been diagnosed because they haven't felt the need to get examined. I've never been diagnosed with the flu, but I've had my share of bad colds over the years. Is it possible I've never had the flu? Sure. But I can't know that, because I don't go to the doctor when I have a cold. I would need to be so sick that it was worrying before I went to a doctor to find out if I had the flu. So, yes, the study group could include any number of people who are "trundling along just fine" but aren't, in fact, fine.
 
Having something to blame is at least having something to blame.

If we're counting things that barely matter, I guess.
The feeling of a loved one dying does have notes of feeling like you've been robbed by someone above-the-law, there's nothing you can do about it and you're absolutely not getting back what was taken. But like you say, its different when you have no actual "robber" to blame besides god. I can't say for certain which is "worse", just that they are different. In the first place, like you referenced earlier, how you feel about a loved one's death is inextricably intertwined with all the interactions and nuances and relationships you shared with that particular person. Losing a relative you only saw at Thanksgiving may not feel the same as losing a classmate that you ate lunch with everyday.

But the second part is that having someone, or even something meaningful, tangible to blame can change how you feel about it. Having some sense of "why" is involved there I think... but again, I can't really define it as worse or better... just bad, in a somewhat different way.

About the guns... a couple critical differences can be the relative unexpectedness of it, as well as the deliberate nature of it. This was a loss that was inflicted unexpectedly, and in many cases on purpose... as opposed to the relative who was very sick or elderly who everyone knew was leaving soon. Even the unexpected car crash, is something that everyone knows was an accident.

They all feel potentially very different. But as you say... on some level, it barely matters.
 
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Indeed. The study found a 250-500% increase in psychiatric disorders among parents who lose a child to gun violence (and a 30% increase even among parents whose children survived being shot). I'm still unable to read the full study, but I'm curious why that range is so big. I'm wondering if the effect of gun violence on survivors' emotional and psychological health is so severe that it was actually beyond the study's ability to measure with confidence, like the radiation dosimeter that only goes up to 30 Roentgen when the reactor explodes. Until other studies are done, we can't take this one as definitive, and it's totally possible that this paper underestimates the effects of violence.

Personally I'd be surprised if any significant number of people weren't developing psychiatric disorders after their kid gets shot to death, that's the kind of thing that will fudge up any normal person.
 

US appeals court revives Mexico's $10bn lawsuit against gunmakers​

A US appeals court has ruled that a $10bn lawsuit filed by Mexico against US gun manufacturers can go ahead, reviving a long-running legal battle.

Mexico's government argues that the "flood" of illegal guns across the border is a result of "deliberate" business practices by the US gunmakers.

A lower court had dismissed the case in late 2022, prompting an appeal from the Mexican government.

The gun industry's trade association has denied any wrongdoing.

Among the companies named in the lawsuit are Smith & Wesson, Glock, Beretta, Barrett, Sturm and Ruger.

Mexican authorities allege that tens of thousands of US-manufactured guns are trafficked south across the border each year, providing drug cartels with easy access to massive arsenals used to fight each other and the Mexican government. Some estimates put the total at over half a million weapons each year.

More than 30,000 people were murdered last year in Mexico, which has extremely restrictive gun laws. The country is home to only one gun shop, housed in a Mexico City military complex.

The lawsuit, which was first filed in 2021 in a federal courthouse in Massachusetts - where several of the companies are based - argued that the manufacturers knew that guns were being sold to traffickers fuelling violence in the country.

But in 2022 a US federal judge dismissed the case on the grounds that the gun manufacturers were protected by a 2005 law known as the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. The law, also known as the PLCAA, shields gunmakers from damages "resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse" of their products.

Mexico's government swiftly appealed, arguing that the law only applies to injuries that take place in the US and does not protect the defendants - which include seven manufacturers and one distributor - from liability.

On Monday, a US appeals court ruled that the Mexican lawsuit "plausibly alleges a type of claim that is statutorily exempt" from the PCLAA, which only covers lawful gun sales.

Mexican and gun control advocates in the US quickly claimed the ruling as a victory, with Mexican Foreign Minister Alicia Bárcena calling it "great news" on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter.

In a statement, Jon Lowy, the president of Global Action on Gun Violence - who serves as Mexico's co-counsel on the case - said that the ruling is a "huge step forward in holding the gun industry accountable for its contribution to gun violence, and in stopping the flood of trafficked guns to the cartels."

"Not only did the Court recognize the right of another country to sue U.S. gun companies, it also pierced the unfair legal shield that gun companies have been hiding behind since 2005," he added.

Larry Keane, the senior vice-president and general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade group that represents the US firearms industry, defended the manufacturers.

"Mexico should spend its time enforcing its own laws [and] bring Mexican criminals to justice in Mexican courtrooms, instead of scapegoating the firearm industry for their unwillingness to protect Mexican citizens," he wrote on X.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68071549

Next up SCOTUS
full
 
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U.S. surgeon general declares firearm violence a public health crisis

U.S. Surgeon General Vivek H. Murthy declared gun violence a public health crisis Tuesday and called on the nation to address it with the same vigor used to reduce deaths and injuries from tobacco and motor vehicle crashes.

The surgeon general's advisory marked the first time the nation's leading voice on public health — the same office that in the 1960s highlighted the lethal consequences of cigarette smoking — had issued an urgent pronouncement on deaths related to firearms. The 39-page advisory underscores the significant physical and mental toll of gun violence on communities nationwide.

Overall, deaths caused by guns rose to a three-decade high in 2021, driven by increases in homicides and suicides, the advisory says. In 2022, more than half of all gun deaths were from suicide, while 40 percent of firearms deaths were homicides.

As of 2020, firearm-related injuries had become the leading cause of death for children and adolescents ages 1 to 19 in the United States. Gun-related deaths for youths exceed those from vehicular accidents, cancer and heart disease.

Gun violence deaths are a uniquely American phenomenon. In 2015, data from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization showed that the United States had a firearm-related death rate 11.4 times higher than 28 other high-income nations. The disparity is even greater for the young: U.S. children up to age 14 accounted for 90 percent of all firearm-related injuries in that age group across the 29 countries in the study.

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Spoiler Video and more graphs :
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Gun lovers don't care about gun violence, gun deaths or all the people who suffer because of the 400 million or so guns in the US.
 

'Switches' are turning handguns into machine guns on GTA streets​

Toronto police have seized 109 firearm auto switches so far this year, up from 29 total in 2023

Toronto police have seized more devices that illegally transform semi-automatic handguns into fully automatic machine guns this year than ever before, according to new data shared with CBC News.

A Toronto Police Service spokesperson said the agency has seized 109 firearm auto switches — also known as auto sears — so far this year, compared to 29 in all of 2023 and 32 in 2022.

The small metal or plastic device, roughly the size of a quarter, allows a firearm to shoot "900 to 1,200 rounds a minute," said Toronto police senior firearm officer Matthew Passmore.

Auto switches are prohibited in Canada, yet have been confiscated in a number of recent high profile investigations across the country.

This includes the Toronto shootout on Nov. 11, where investigators said nearly 100 shots were fired outside a Queen Street W. recording studio and 23 people were arrested. Sixteen guns were confiscated, police said, including four handguns equipped with auto switches.

In October, Peel Regional Police announced they seized 53 auto switches as part of an investigation targeting alleged drug traffickers in the GTA.

And in spring 2023, Winnipeg police said they found nearly 100 auto switches, as well as 20 3D-printed gun parts, during a house search in the city. Police were tipped off by the Canada Border Services Agency months earlier, when they discovered parts used for 3D-printed guns were being shipped to Winnipeg from the U.S. and China.

The only purpose of an auto switch is to maximize harm, according to Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University.

"To have the droves of these weapons that really just are designed to militarize street crime — this is extremely concerning," he said.

Jillian Snider, a retired NYPD officer and a lecturer at New-York based John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said the U.S. is also seeing a significant increase in the use of auto switches. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has seized more than 31,000 of these machine gun conversion devices in the past five years.

What's more, said Snider, is that people using these devices are generally not trained in firearms.

"You are converting a weapon to make it do something that it was not intended to do, and then on top of it, you lack any type of familiarity or training with the weapon, you're not holding it correctly. It's very dangerous," said Snider.

"The person firing this weapon has no control, nor do they understand that one to two seconds with their finger on that trigger can release between 30 and 60 rounds potentially."

Gun violence is on the rise across Canada, according to the latest Statistics Canada data, which notes the number of shootings across Canada more than doubled between 2018 and 2023, rising from 1,151 to 2,323.

There have been 417 shootings in Toronto alone so far this year, according to the Toronto Police Public Safety Data Portal, a significant increase from the 296 last year.

Restricted guns that end up on Canadian streets are often smuggled from the U.S. In the case of the recent Nov. 11 Toronto shooting, all of the firearms seized originated from the U.S., said Toronto police Staff Supt. Joe Matthews.

"This highlights the ongoing challenge of cross-border gun trafficking and the urgent need for enhanced measures to prevent illegal firearms from entering our communities," he said at a news conference last week.

While prohibited, auto switches in particular do not appear difficult to obtain from within Canada. CBC News has viewed one website that sells the devices for less than $200 Cdn, with the company stating it ships to Canada. There are also online videos that show how to install an auto switch on firearms in less than one minute.

"There is no easy solution to this," said Arntfield. "There's an increasingly evolving and unpredictable criminal landscape in Canada now for which there's no real precedent."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/auto-switches-seized-toronto-police-1.7389625
 
"There is no easy solution to this," said Arntfield. "There's an increasingly evolving and unpredictable criminal landscape in Canada now for which there's no real precedent."
I do wonder how hard it is to come up with a semi-auto that is not trivial to convert into an auto. They could just make semi-auto handguns illegal while leaving revolvers legal. That seems like it would work for most legitimate use cases of handguns, and if we cannot come up with a similar solution for long guns there has to be a good reason.
 
Do you like bolt actions?

I like pumps pretty well, but people hate those too. And they're already a very manual chamber system.
 
Do you like bolt actions?
Well, they seem to do the job for "varmint" shooting, which is the main application I have seen them used.
 
They do well for that, yes.

Though I do try to varmint with birdshot when I can instead of the .22, part of it is the possibility of ricochet limits firing lines on flat populated ground. But the availability of a timely followup shot is useful.
 
Many Indigenous hunters in Canada use SKS rifles. Highly reliable even in really cold temps and good for deer hunting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS
The SKS rifle is very popular in Canada,[136][137][138] with some users referring to it as "Canada's rifle".[136] While the SKS is imported for commercial sales in Canada, it is affected by Canadian firearms legislation, which prohibits high capacity magazines.[139]

Under Canadian law, the SKS is classified as a non-restricted firearm provided the magazine has been modified to accept five rounds or retrofitted with entirely new five-shot magazines. When the Canadian government introduced an amendment to the pending Bill C-21 that would have expanded and changed the basis for classifying assault weapons under the law, the resulting ban on the SKS was a particular point of contention because it is widely used for hunting, notably by First Nations in Canada.[136][137][138] The leadership of the Assembly of First Nations voted unanimously to express opposition to the amendment.[138] The amendment was eventually withdrawn due to the widespread opposition.[136]
 
That's about the same firing rate as an AR-15?

At a certain point, I almost have to wonder if these idiots with autoswitches on handguns are actually decreasing their effectiveness.
 
At a certain point, I almost have to wonder if these idiots with autoswitches on handguns are actually decreasing their effectiveness.
With a fire rate of 900-1,200 rounds per minute, the recoil would make it jump all over the place.
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up shooting themselves in the face. Literally.
My brother once fired a full-auto MAC-10, he said that it immediately jumps so most rounds get fired into the air.
 
I think that's where "hold it sideways" comes into play. But yea. Guess I'm glad they don't practice, generally.
 

The US town where it's the law to own a gun​

Kennesaw, Georgia, has all the small-town fixings one might imagine in the American South.
There's the smell of baked biscuits wafting from Honeysuckle Biscuits & Bakery and the rumble of a nearby railroad train. It's the kind of place where newlyweds leave hand-written thank-you cards in coffee shops, praising the "cozy" atmosphere.
But there's another aspect of Kennesaw that some might find surprising – a city law from the 1980s that legally requires residents to own guns and ammo.
"It's not like you go around wearing it on your hip like the Wild Wild West," said Derek Easterling, the town's three-term mayor and self-described "retired Navy guy".
"We're not going to go knock on your door and say, 'Let me see your weapon.'"
Kennesaw's gun law plainly states: "In order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition."
Residents with mental or physical disabilities, felony convictions, or conflicting religious beliefs are exempt from the law.
To Mayor Easterling's knowledge, and that of multiple local officials, there have been no prosecutions or arrests made for violating Article II, Sec 34-21, which came into law in 1982.
And no one that the BBC spoke to could say what the penalty would be for being found in violation.
Still, the mayor insisted: "It's not a symbolic law. I'm not into things just for show."

For some, the law is a source of pride, a nod to the city's embrace of gun culture.
For others, it's a source of embarrassment, a page in a chapter of history they wish to move beyond.
But the main belief amongst the townsfolk about the gun law is that it keeps Kennesaw safe.
Patrons eating pepperoni slices at the local pizza parlour will propose: "If anything, criminals need to be concerned, because if they break into your home, and you're there, they don't know what you got."
There were no murders in 2023, according to Kennesaw Police Department data, but there were two gun-involved suicides.
Blake Weatherby, a groundskeeper at the Kennesaw First Baptist Church, has different thoughts on why violent crime might be low.
"It's the attitude behind the guns here in Kennesaw that keep the gun crimes down, not the guns," Mr Weatherby said.
"It doesn't matter if it's a gun or a fork or a fist or a high heel shoe. We protect ourselves and our neighbours."

Pat Ferris, who joined Kennesaw's city council in 1984, two years after the law was passed, said the law was created to be "more of a political statement than anything".
After Morton Grove, Illinois became the first US city to ban gun ownership, Kennesaw became the first city to require it, triggering national news headlines.
A 1982 opinion piece by the New York Times described Kennesaw officials as "jovial" over the law's passage but noted that "Yankee criminologists" were not.
Penthouse Magazine ran the story on its cover page with the words Gun Town USA: An American Town Where It's Illegal Not to Own a Gun printed over an image of a bikini-clad blonde woman.
Similar gun laws have been passed in at least five cities, including Gun Barrel City, Texas and Virgin, Utah.
In the 40 years since Kennesaw's gun law was passed, Mr Ferris said, its existence has mostly faded from consciousness.
"I don't know how many people even know that the ordinance exists," he said.

The same year the gun law took effect, Mr Weatherby, the church groundskeeper, was born.
He recalled a childhood where his dad would half-jokingly tell him: "I don't care if you don't like guns, it's the law."
"I was taught that if you're a man, you've got to own a gun," he said.
Now 42, he was 12 years old the first time he fired a weapon.
"I almost dropped it because it scared me so bad," he said.
Mr Weatherby owned over 20 guns at one point but said now he doesn't own any. He sold them over the years – including the one his dad left him when he died in 2005 – to overcome hard times.
"I needed gas more than guns," he said.
One place he could've gone to sell his firearms is the Deercreek Gun Shop located on Kennesaw's Main Street.
James Rabun, 36, has been working at the gun store ever since he graduated high school.
It's the family business, he said, opened by his dad and grandad, both of whom can still be found there today; his dad in the back restoring firearms, his grandad in the front relaxing in a rocking chair.
For obvious reasons, Mr Rabun is a fan of Kennesaw's gun law. It's good for business.
"The cool thing about firearms", he said with earnest enthusiasm, "is that people buy them for self-defence, but a lot of people like them like artwork or like bitcoin – things of scarcity."
Among the dozens and dozens of weapons hanging on the wall for sale are double barrel black powder shotguns – akin to a musket – and a few "they-don't-make-these-anymore" Winchester rifles from the 1800s.

In Kennesaw, gun fandom has a broad reach that extends beyond gun shop owners and middle-aged men.
Cris Welsh, a mother of two teenaged daughters, is unabashed about her gun ownership. She hunts, is a member at a gun club, and shoots at the local gun range with her two girls.
"I'm a gun owner", she admitted, listing off her inventory which includes "a Ruger carry pistol, a Baretta, a Glock, and about half a dozen shotguns".
However, Ms Welsh is not fond of Kennesaw's gun law.
"I'm embarrassed when I hear people talk about the gun law," Ms Welsh said. "It's just an old Kennesaw thing to hang onto."
She wished that when outsiders thought of the city, they called to mind the parks and schools and community values – not the gun law "that makes people uncomfortable".
"There's so much more to Kennesaw," she said.
City council member Madelyn Orochena agrees that the law is "something that people would prefer not to advertise".
"It's just a weird little factoid about our community," she said.
"Residents will either roll their eyes in a bit of shame or laugh along about it."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czx505p5n59o
 
Parents of Belgrade school shooter jailed

The parents of a teenage boy who killed nine children and a security guard in a mass shooting at a school in Serbia last year have been jailed.

In the May 2023 attack, the then 13-year-old killed nine children and a security guard at Vladislav Ribnikar elementary school in Belgrade.

The boy's father, Vladimir Kecmanoviæ, was sentenced to 14-and-a-half years imprisonment on Monday, while his mother, Miljana Kecmanoviæ, was given a three-year prison sentence.

Nemanja Marinkovic, an instructor at the Partizan shooting club who taught the boy how to use a gun, received a sentence of one year and three months.

The boy, who has been held in a psychiatric institution since the attack, cannot be put on trial because he is below the age of criminal responsibility.

However, his parents were accused of a "serious act against general safety" for failing to secure the weapons and ammunition properly. They denied the charges.

At the high court in Belgrade on Monday, Vladimir was found guilty of endangering public safety by teaching his son to shoot and failing to secure his gun. He was also convicted of neglecting a minor.

Miljana was found guilty of neglecting a minor but acquitted of illegally possessing weapons and ammunition.

A lawyer representing the families described it as "one of the most harrowing trials I have witnessed in my career".

Eight of the nine children KK murdered were girls.

Serbia was plunged into further grief less than 48 hours later, when another eight people were shot dead by a 21-year-old man in a village outside the capital.
 
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