The U.S.=the tower of Babel?

[Pongui]

Maybe in some cities, an ethnic neighbourhood (like a Chinatown)can be a ghetto, but in others it's just a commercial district. I live a few blocks away from a very tiny Little Jamaica, for example. It's just a few hair salons, delicatessens, a clothing store - no housing. It makes sense to group businesses that way. When I pass through the computer district, I don't expect to see web designers hanging out of all the apartment windows speaking their language.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by MuddyOne
Adebisi, all of the states that joined the US did so willingly. Of the overseas possession taken by force I only know details of Pueto Rico. It's official language is Spanish. Hawaii is officially bi-lingual.

I consider the annexation of Hawaii to be a dark blot on American history. Hawaii was a fully independant, internationally recognized kingdom, as Eighty said. What the United States did in Hawaii was colonialism, pure and simple.

The upshot is, because of Hawaii's rich natural resources, there was a great deal of foreign investment. American companies, mainly plantations, set up shop in Hawaii, and a lot of Americans moved to Hawaii to work in the companies. The natives were largely shut of these companies, except for menial jobs. When the Queen of Hawaii, named Liliukalani, decided to take action to preserve the integrity of her nation and it's economy, she was deposed in a coup organized by American foreign nationals. The United States military moved in to restore order, and inevitably the U.S. annexed Hawaii as a territory. The deposed Queen lived under house arrest for most of the rest of her life, only regaining her freedom as an old woman.

Interesting side note: Queen Liliukalani wrote the song "Aloha Oi" while living in confinement. It is a farewell song to the Hawaii she knew and loved.

 

[Adebisi]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Adebisi, what are you suggesting then? That we split into two factions, the English-speakers and Spanish-speakers? I don't think that's worked all that well in French parts of Canada.

I'm suggesting that you let each speak his own language. Forming groups? Is it a crime?

Sure, this sounds liberal, and it is, but still...

No matter how far to the right I move I can't accept assimilating indigenous people with force!

 

[amadeus]

Fine. Let them speak their own language.

America's language doctrine should be this:

English at schools. You want a diploma? Habla Ingles.
English at work. You want a job? Habla Ingles.
English at government. You want to vote? Habla Ingles.

One exception: English and Spanish on airplanes.

No smoking -- el you a no smoko,
Fasten seatbelts -- putana da seatbeltz

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Damien
language...yet what language is taught in classes?Can u choose your class depending on your language?

I just want to say that in my high school there are many reqular course classes taught ONLY in Spanish, and not just spanish , there is a spanish math class a spanish history class and a few others. Since I don't speak spanish I can't tell you exactly how many of those there are but they are there.

 

[Adebisi]

Having English as the only language in school is the way you kill other languages.

 

[Pongui]

One of the big highschools here did a study of languages spoken by the students, and languages spoken by their parents. About 5/6 of the the students were of Asian descent, and in most households the language spoken was that of their country of origin. Many of the student's parents understood very little english. MOST OF THESE KIDS HAD MARGINAL PROFICIENCY IN THEIR PARENTS' LANGUAGE . The repair was to bring in a slew of language classes, selected from the languages most spoken by parents of the students. The highschool also opened up an english-as-a-second-language (ESL) night school for parents.

Having english as the only language in school kills other languages and breaks the families, and so the cultures.

 

[Greadius]

Its odd how conservative minded people like sharpe forget that they support local control over schools when they speak about English only... since they realize if it is under local control the status quo remains.

Originally posted by Sean Lindstrom
Having english as the only language in school kills other languages and breaks the families, and so the cultures.

With all due respect to their languages and cultures, if they were so intent on keeping them, why did they immigrate to the U.S. (or Canada)? If that were such a high priority, wouldn't the best place to maintain your culture and language be in that culture, with that language.

 

[AVN]

Originally posted by Adebisi
Having English as the only language in school is the way you kill other languages.

Adebisi, I agree,
but if we all learn and speak the same language, communication will be much easier.
And that can be a start to solve a lot of problems.

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by AVN


Adebisi, I agree,
but if we all learn and speak the same language, communication will be much easier.
And that can be a start to solve a lot of problems.

yea but then all of our transilators will be out of the job, and also people woudn't be paid more at some jobs because they could speak a second language.

 

[FredLC]

Hehehehe... The day translators are no longer necessary, is the day when no one will pay more for someone that knows more than one language.

 

[Homie]

With all due respect to their languages and cultures, if they were so intent on keeping them, why did they immigrate to the U.S. (or Canada)? If that were such a high priority, wouldn't the best place to maintain your culture and language be in that culture, with that language.

(By Greadius) Exactly!

Adebisi, I agree,
but if we all learn and speak the same language, communication will be much easier.
And that can be a start to solve a lot of problems.

(by AVN) pricisely!

These 2 comments answears the whole discussion. I would be able to give up my native language if it meant a future where EVERYBODY spoke the same language.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Fine. Let them speak their own language.

America's language doctrine should be this:

English at schools. You want a diploma? Habla Ingles.
English at work. You want a job? Habla Ingles.
English at government. You want to vote? Habla Ingles.

One exception: English and Spanish on airplanes.

No smoking -- el you a no smoko,
Fasten seatbelts -- putana da seatbeltz

Ah! The ignorance of the young!

Why don't we set up some nice prison camps for those evil non-English speakers too?

Because the population of the USA doesn't speak real English either!

 

[Adebisi]

edited (...)

 

[Homie]

That is usually easy for someone who doesn't have to switch languages and doesn't know what it feels like to speak a minority language.

(by Adebisi)

If you had read what you quoted my on, you would see that I said "I would be able to give up my native language" which means that I would HAVE to switch languages.

This forum alone is an example of how great it would be if we all knew english. This forum could never exist if we all spoke our native language.

Er dere ikke enige? De fleste forstår nok ikke en skit av det jeg skriver nå.

 

[FredLC]

Well, Homie, this forum is only possible because english IS NOT everybody's main language.

See, if it were, many dialects and variations would arise. We would have a common language in the beginning, but as time passes, it would grow more differently.

I take as example the portuguese spoken in Brazil and the portuguese spoken in Portugal. Exactly the same language, but it has become so different with expressions and variations and intonations that there are books translated from one to another.

Not to mention the various regional intonations we find within our borders.

One single primary language to the whole world probably wouldn't last very much...

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
English at work. You want a job? Habla Ingles.

You want to tap the ever increasing Spanish speaking market? Speak Spanish.

Seriously, Arizona is almost as billingual as Canada ever was. Right down to the ATMs giving me a choice of two languages. In Canada the reason was simple: two official languages. In Arizona the reason is just as simple. Lots of people speak Spanish, if I want their business, I'll speak their language.

 

[Homie]

Even though dialects differ, the written language would be the same. In Norway we have different dialects, but we all write in the official language, actually we have 2 official versions of our language, but we do not write in dialects.

 

[FredLC]

Yes, but Norway is not the world. Think in terms of scale. In a countrie of small territorial proportions such as Norway, you have variations. How many more would you get in the world?

They would keep changing and changing more. Eventually, we would end up as we are today.

That's why I believe in a "second" common language, the role that english is, unnoficially, taking upon itself this days.

 

[eighty]

Originally posted by Greadius
wouldn't the best place to maintain your culture and language be in that culture, with that language.

Yeah maybe if you thought you had a choice. Take immigrants from Laos for example. Do you think they would rather stay in their native country and face genocide or risk moving to America where they may have to learn English, and possibly give up some of their own language? It would be nice if people could stay wherever they wanted.

About the comments that one language would eventually evolve into dialects: supposedly that can be blamed on the Tower of Babel incident (according to the Bible anyway). Apparently, all humans used to speak the same language, everywhere, without dialects. Then God got mad and broke humans into thousands of groups with no common language. And, since then, further attempts at common languages fail because dialects arise.

An alternative explanation that I posted earlier (but didn't explain very well): language corrosion could come from a virus transmitted by seeing a printed code. This code acts on the visual cortex of the brain and gradually influences the language center to "mutate" or change randomly. Hey why not? If millions of people believe we all used to speak one language anyway, why can't there exist other possibilities for the thousands of languages now?