The University of Immortals

[r_rolo1]

Ok, don't have time now for a full report...

Spoiler :

Axe rushed Louis and kept both his capitol as the Jewish holy city ( I converted to it as well... but main reason was that Han is Jewish Met Fred... that knows someone else besides me , Han and Louis ( I'm outspying him... and I have equal heights for everyone ). In the middle of a 10 peace treaty ( I really needed to rest my troops ), French are tryin to sneak a settler to the Sheep/Corn site... This time I'll keep it ( damn partisan bug delayed my axe rush pretty well ). Save below is from turn 100

 

[Sleepless]

50 - 800AD

Spoiler :

Still with only my poor 6 cities. I think I'm the only one who didn't rush Louis. Managed to meet all the AI.

Tech situation after I had met them all.

Tech situation was very good at this time. Managed a few trades picking up Feud, Mach, Calender, Aesth, Theo had to tech CS and drama myself and am currently on paper at 800AD apparently it will only take 800 odd years to learn.

Managed to prove the world is round.

the + 1 movement might come in handy later.
Preparing for war is not my strong suit. I always think just 1 more unit and with my very small empire they don't come out very quick. Well I knew I had to attack Louis and eventually 2 - 3000 years after everybody else I declared. As expected Louis had built the AP. I was forced to stop trading with Fred then just as I was about to attack Lou an AP vote came up to attack Fred. So I waited a turn before declaring hoping Lou would send some troops to attack Fred. I couldn't wait longer because he was just about to finish Feud. On the actual turn when I declared he came offering me a lot of gold for Philo. Obv I had to refuse knowing what he was going to spend his money on.

So I declared and on to Paris. I had put some spies in Paris but they kept on being discovered so relied on the old fashion way of removing defences.

It proved quite costly to take I lost a Cat and an Ele leaving me plenty of troops to carry on. So did Paris have any goodies.

Mmm Parth and Shwe. That will help with my run for Educ and Lib. Now I should be able to take out Lou but I am worried about a couple of things.
1. He becomes Hans vassal.
2. Han calls a vote to stop the war. Have to defy that but as Lou has the SoZ I could do without the . Saying that my cities are all very little still so have a bit of leeway.

Where to next? If I can take Lou down I will go into caste paci and run a lot of scientists in Teno and hopefully be first to Lib. Then draft an army for an attack on Han. Will be awkward as he has taken Berlin and Hamburg. GLib in Berlin I was hoping Lou would get it.
Tech situation.

Not as good as the first view.

Demographics.

I can safely say they suck . With the war I have lost all my trade routes but should get them back soon.

One last afterthought. I really thought HC or Ram was in this game with all the early wonders. Quite surprised to Jus had built them all. Should have been Lou .

 

[Gliese 581]

Wow I'm falling behind I played a 4th round up until 250ish AD but I should probably extend it a bit so I can read some more spoilers!

 

[BurN]

Played a small round 400AD-800AD.

Spoiler :

450AD - Trade CS to Frederick for compass+gold.


500AD - Switch to Bureaucracy, caste & pacifism. Also switch to Judaism. I start running scientists in Teno. Trade CS+compass to Willem for machinery+gold.


560AD - Trade phil to Frederick for optics+gold. Trade Phil+compass to Justinian for Feud+gold.


580AD - Done with paper, edu is next. Trade Feud to Frederick for Theology+gold+worldmap.


600AD - Trade my worldmap with Hannibal. I still didn't explore his land so .. saves me time running units around.


620AD - Justinian demands optics, which I give him.


640AD - Sacrificing some food to get a GS at the time when I need it. If it would come 1 turn later, I'd waste breakers bulbing edu. The way I did it I'll evade wasting breakers, I'll bulb and still have to research 1 turn edu. This way no overflow is wasted.




640AD - Willem has too much on his hands. Judging from diplo he will dow Hannibal. Which would be perfect.

Also did a trade with him Phil+Feud for Engineering+gold.


660AD - I go on a begging round, asking AI's for gold. Only Frederick gave me 60gold. Also GS pops, and bulb edu. I switch scientists to merchants, I want a GM to fund upgrading CR maces/pikemen to riffles/grens.


720AD - Buddhist AP built.


800AD - Liberalism.










Gameplan from here, I'm not sure. Some valid ways to go:

- Burn GM on GA. This way I'll grab Taj without doubt, starting a second GA. These two GA's will power me to riffles faster. Thanks to 2x GA, I can get another GM or GS. GM could go trade mission for CR riffles or a GS could make an academy in Paris.

- Skip building Taj since I have no marble, its very costly so I could focus on getting infrastructure/units in Paris. Send the GM on trade mission for CR riffles. Next up then is getting a GS for academy in Paris.
Another pro argument would be that I can trade Nationalism around without worrying about losing the TM.

- Since Hannibal isn't close to liberalism, I could delay it. This way I can tech gunpowder->pick chemistry from lib->Military science. The same trade mission strat would apply. Upgrade CR pikemen to grens. A big pro argument would be that I can ignore TM, ignore GT and focus on getting Oxford up faster. Also I'd have more hammers that could go to pikemen.

I think regardless of what path I take, I don't want to trade Education. The longer the AI's stay without Oxford the better.

 

[Olodune]

400bc to 1300ad

Spoiler :

This is a pure rebuilding round.

After reading some of the other Louis wars it's pretty clear that even a successful worker theft of 2 workers just doesn't pay off on immortal. Perhaps if I didn't intend to kill Louis it would have. Oh well.

After eliminating Louis (475bc) I decided to pick up aesthetics to trade myself some tech. Unfortunately Hannibal is annoyed with Fred, so I have only one trading partner. Instead of trading I decide to try for the Shwedagon Paya and the Statue of Zeus (we have gold and ivory). I get both.

Hannibal is Jewish, so I'm only too happy to convert. Soon our relations are up to Friendly due to:

Unfortunately, this means I don't meet the others until *much* later.

When we finally do get peace (~1000ad), contact is quickly made with Willem, and Gilgamesh. It appears that Liberalism may still be attainable so I switch to pacifism and go GSci farming in a couple of cities.

It pays off:

The tech screen is looking better:

Shortly we meet Buddhist Justinian, the score leader. Unlike in other games my Frederick founded and adopted Confucianism. Nobody likes poor Fred (though he helpfully grabs the Taj away from dangerous opponents ). Justinian sends us a request:

Sure bud Nothing like free diplo points off a punching bag.

I played a few more turns, and am now in the middle pack in terms of tech and score:

The Carthaginian border:

I'm reasonably happy with the turnset. Slow tech trading has led to a slow global tech pace ... which suits me just fine

Justinian/Willem are three techs ahead, but don't appear to be running away this things just yet. Justy has rifles so I'll need to be careful Frederick doesn't get stomped.

At the moment it looks like a full scale rifle/cannon war with Hannibal looms on the horizon. Lyons is set up to be a decent Heroic Epic city with two settled GGs (one courtesy of Louis). I'll try and get Democracy before the war. I have two more great scientist just about to spawn, after which I'll switch to Free Religion to keep the peace with the Buddhists.

Mistakes:
1) The aforementioned worker theft
2) Going for the Forbidden Palace in Paris rather than moving the capital. This was too slow.
3) Slow contact with the others -- I should have been more thorough exploring.


This is turning into a fun game

 

[Rusten]

Report won’t be as detailed. Letting me loose with Monty is like letting a child into a candy store unsupervised. I end up having too much fun and neglect the report, but I’ll see what I can do.

840 AD -> 1460 AD

Spoiler :

From 840 -> 1100 AD I just whipped infrastructure and some pikes/war elephants. Put up Globe in Tenochtitlan and HE in Teotihuacan. I made some tech trades but only the bigger techs as I fear becoming “too advanced”.

Tech screen at 1100 AD (I have all I need for war)

Adjust to war civics (theocracy bumped Justinian to friendly):

My HE city (I took this picture with no overflow, just the general output):

Declare war in 1170 AD with the (underrated) musketmen and cuirassiers. These guys are so much better than what most people think and you can mass them like nothing else. Here’s round 1 of combat (I did not use siege before-hand, just pure attack).

The 2 defeats came from unlucky rolls. Speaking of unlucky rolls, the later war vs Carthage was my worst ever in terms of rolls. I’ve never lost so many +90% and 70-ish combat odds before, I don’t think I broke even at times, it was ridiculous. I should’ve restarted the game or something, maybe it would’ve helped.

We take Utica at 1230 AD. It has an academy and a SY.

So you know what we’re dealing with, here are my 2 biggest stacks (the one to the left in the screen is 1 NW of Carthage):

1250 AD: Capture Carthage. It does not hold the SoZ unfortunately. That wonder is such a pain; I’m forced to adopt a 40% culture slider after only taking 2 cities. The wonder is in the south-eastern city so it’s next on my list. Here’s the war weariness at 1410 AD (it was worse earlier (before SoZ was captured) so now I dropped to 20% slider and I even have a jail in that city):

This war cost me a lot, but it's worth it in the end claiming the entire island.

1280: We take the SoZ city. I won’t report detailed about the war, because it lasted longer than I anticipated (really unlucky combat over and over again). I also failed to notice that Hannibal sabotaged my forge in the HE city *sigh*

However, in 1460 AD we take the last city of Hannibal. Now it’s time to recover yet again and catch up with Justinian whose GNP is huge (due to the Buddhist shrine and roomy+great lands). I'm bigger than him in size now though, so I should have the upper hand. Getting biology in 5-10 turns as well.

Power just before the final blow:

FE at work; producing an enormous army out of nowhere before the opponent can counter.

 

[Rusten]

1440 AD -> the end

Yes, I finished it already. There's nothing worse than not being able to view spoilers so I figured the only way was to play on.

Result ->

Spoiler :

Victory

Report:

Spoiler :

My computer sucks at civ 4 late games in addition to the fact that I hate modern wars, so instead of moving the war onto Germany and go for domination I decided to sit back and go for a diplomatic victory (sorry Monty, I know it’s not your usual cup of tea ).


As it was peaceful and uneventful set of turns I didn’t take many screen and won’t make a big report. The game was decided earlier, this set was on auto-pilot which is why I finished the game so fast. I probably could’ve teched faster and traded more but I didn’t bother. Don’t take anything I’m doing at the ending save as advice, I just built random stuff.

I decided to have some fun with the corporations (which made me abandon my beloved mercantilism in the end). Founded Sid’s Sushi in 1550 AD and mining inc in 1605 (both in Tenochtitlan with Wall Street).

Demographics at 1690:


Relations at 1690:



I gave out some gifts which bumped Fred and Willem to friendly.

Went for Mass Media and after a long time waiting for a resolution to come up:



Diplomatic Victory in 1735 (I adopted monarchy to please Gilgamesh so lower science than otherwise. He still voted for Justinian though ). I could’ve done whatever I wanted at that point given my huge production and land (see coming graphs). I Didn’t make any factories yet either as I was lazy.








Score:



Buddhism is present in almost every city on the planet, I'd really love to get my hands on Constantinople, but my laziness took over.

While I'm not a huge fan of the diplomacy wins this was the domination kind so it doesn't matter. I just didn't feel like fighting a war I knew I'd win and waste several hours (cuz of a slow comp in the late game). I think AP religious wins are a little stupid, but the UN is fine.

This game was a lot of fun. Thanks for hosting it silverbullet and I'm looking forward to the next one (if you want to keep it going of course).

 

[Olodune]

A short set this time

1300-1555ad

Spoiler :

I went through rifling/democracy/steel.

A GP was born who founded a 17gpt Jewish shrine (good idea? )
A GSci started a golden age to speed through democracy.

I finally set up oxford university in Paris.

Despite all this I've fallen slightly off the tech pace:

I'm not too worried because demographics look fine (especially GNP and land):

And our mini-continent in 1555:

Yep, Hannibal built the SoL, in a very convenient location

Actually now looks like a good time for a troop surge for a war with Hannibal because:

-Hannibal's still two techs away from steel
-He still has a lot of outdated troops, and no large SoD.
-I need land
-I have the SoZ, so a defensive stand after a DoW should hurt him considerably.

We'll see.

 

[BurN]

@Rusten

Spoiler :

Grats on your win lazy bum. Nah I agree on modern war being tedious, probably because my comp can't handle late games that well either. Kinda weird decision to attack with muskets though.

My game looks alright, I was worried about Hannibal but it turned out pretty good. But now Justinian's tech speed is rather worrying. I did do two really stupid mistakes though .. but more info on that when I write down next session.

 

[Sleepless]

800 - 1040AD Advice needed

Spoiler :

left the last post with the capture of Paris. So how did things go after that:

No wonders here

Soz and a shrine mmmm. Even has a settled GA and market. Future Wall Street methinks.

Possibility of some AP but Han will be in charge until my cities grow or he goes into free religion.

I left Lou with one city because this peace offer was on the table:

So far behind in techs I needed the boost. Will take his last city in after peace treaty ends. Luckily he didn't become Han's vassal and he is now Christian so unlikely to.

Tech situation:

Can't even get Optics from Fred as he is furious with me. Stupid AP forcing me into war. At least Han is friendly with all the modifiers.

Demographics:

My new lands:

Where to go from here?

No way I will be first to Lib but is it worth going for edu for the trade value? I should get some scientists out of Teno. Plan is to go into Caste/Pac and run a load of scientists there. Two turns from Nat Epic and with Parth should come very quick.

I also have a GM just born. Ideas on what to do with him? If I had Optics I would do a trade mission to ToA city. Possibly put some turns in optics and try and trade music? He would bulb part of guilds which I think would be a waste.

Last during the war I didn't get any level 4 troops so HE isn't unlocked yet. I do have 2 GG though and I'm thinking of attaching him to a Woodsman III Jag. What would be the best promotions. Super Medic?

All comments and advice welcomed.

 

[BurN]

@sleepless

Spoiler :

Tech overview doesn't look good. But could be worse, winning is still very plausible.

Random thoughts:

- I wouldn't rule lib out yet since Hannibal is teching economics. You can try bulbing part of education->lib but you will need luck. Probably construct an academy with the next GS. If you see Hannibal going after Lib, you probably want to stick with education and techs that are prereq for riffling only. With other words beeline riffles (or grens, thats up to you). You can get a GM later for trade mission to upgrade axes/maces to CR riffles/grens and dow on Hannibal.

- I would settle the GM in your future WS city, which would be Orleans.

- Why do you have 1k gold when you're after lib? I'd tech part of edu->bulb->100% science to lib.

- I wouldn't change EP slider above 0%.

- As for trading music, once again if you're after lib I wouldn't waste any turns. If not, go ahead.

- In conclusion wipe out Louis asap and focus on economy/riffles or grens. =)

 

[Sleepless]

@BurN Thanks for your comments.

Spoiler :

I think Han only has 1 turn left on Economics so I assume he'll go for Lib. In which case better to go for PP and bulb part of that?

Money all came from Lou . I was running 0% science because without my trade routes my tech rate was a joke anyway.

I did have 2 cottages but farmed over 1. They don't seem to help much.

The EPs were to try and revolt some of Louis cities. Only worked in one. Still I've got a few left for his last one. Changed over to Han now at 0%.

With Hans love of horses I think best choice is rifles.

If all else fails I could try the cheesy AP victory .

 

[BurN]

@BurN Thanks for your comments.

Spoiler :

I think Han only has 1 turn left on Economics so I assume he'll go for Lib. In which case better to go for PP and bulb part of that?

Money all came from Lou . I was running 0% science because without my trade routes my tech rate was a joke anyway.

I did have 2 cottages but farmed over 1. They don't seem to help much.

The EPs were to try and revolt some of Louis cities. Only worked in one. Still I've got a few left for his last one. Changed over to Han now at 0%.

With Hans love of horses I think best choice is rifles.

If all else fails I could try the cheesy AP victory .

Took a look at your save and I played some turns to get a feel of the game

Spoiler :

That you signed peace with Louis is very risky and it's kind of a double edged sword. There's a big chance he will vasal to Hannibal, I'm surprised he didn't do this yet. On the other hand that paper might be the lib winner.

Way too much buildings in your capital. Since you farmed the only thing you'd need in there is library, lighthouse, granary, barracks and optional courthouse. How many GP's did you get? I think you should have ran more scientists. Imho scientists are the way to go if you're at low science %. You might have gotten paper that way and you could've just killed of Louis. Also it would've gotten you early academy/early bulbs.

Anyways what I would advise in the current situation is:

- Whip the NE in the capital. You're losing food due unhealthiness. The extra pop does nothing but cost you maintenance.

- Switch to caste+paci this very turn. Run as many scientists as possible, work nothing but food tiles & scientist .. don't even work the gems. It's ok to lose some food, the faster that GS comes out the better

- Up the research to a certain % so that you get your GS at half edu.

- Once you're in caste+paci .. burn the GM on a GA and crank out those GS's. But I think you should be careful about staying in Judaism for too long.

This is what I would do at the turn of your save.

 

[mystyfly]

A short round from me. Looks I'm far behind you... Lots of work coming then
200BC-200AD

Spoiler :

This set was all about recovering my crippled economy. I was making -1 @ 0%...
150BC I got a GP in Paris who built the hindu shrine.
125BC I trade ABC for Masonry, Polytheism and Archery with Hannibal. This was the best deal I could get. Hannibal started researching the ABC himself and it was the only tech I had on him. WFYABTA-wise I don't think it's that much of a problem: If I pull off a successful rifle war with him, he wont be in WFYABTA anymore and I still hadn't found any other civs this WB is soooo slow...
50BC I finally find German soil. I trade some food ressource for some other food ressource with Fred, for diplo.
0AD I switched to Priesthood and went 100% so I'd get it in one turn (I've been stockpiling some money) for temples and to see whether Fred has CoL already.
100AD The Palace is now in Paris.
IBT: Hannibal goes from Cautious to Annoyed (Border tension). I'm now his worst enemy! (diplo: +1 years of peace, -1 you declared on our friend, -2 close border tension) and I still don't have conf in my cities. BTW Fred adopted conf as well.
150AD I get currency > CoL. Hannibal finished Currency one turn before I did and so trade it to Fred. I get Monarchy and 60g for it. Switch to HR right away. Now finally my cities can grow! (that means I fire some scientists...)
200AD (currently) two turns away from CoL. I have six cities, plan to backfill some more soon. I have to make sure that Hannibal can't run through my cities (no WHEOOH yet. phew.). Markets are quewed up in many cities. Paris, Lyons, Orleans are all cottaged up.
pics:

Spoiler :

 

[Sleepless]

Took a look at your save and I played some turns to get a feel of the game

Spoiler :

That you signed peace with Louis is very risky and it's kind of a double edged sword. There's a big chance he will vasal to Hannibal, I'm surprised he didn't do this yet. On the other hand that paper might be the lib winner.

Way too much buildings in your capital. Since you farmed the only thing you'd need in there is library, lighthouse, granary, barracks and optional courthouse. How many GP's did you get? I think you should have ran more scientists. Imho scientists are the way to go if you're at low science %. You might have gotten paper that way and you could've just killed of Louis. Also it would've gotten you early academy/early bulbs.

Anyways what I would advise in the current situation is:

- Whip the NE in the capital. You're losing food due unhealthiness. The extra pop does nothing but cost you maintenance.

- Switch to caste+paci this very turn. Run as many scientists as possible, work nothing but food tiles & scientist .. don't even work the gems. It's ok to lose some food, the faster that GS comes out the better

- Up the research to a certain % so that you get your GS at half edu.

- Once you're in caste+paci .. burn the GM on a GA and crank out those GS's. But I think you should be careful about staying in Judaism for too long.

This is what I would do at the turn of your save.

Thanks again BurN

Spoiler :

The trouble is I'm a builder at heart. Mmm just one more bulding that is why the war against Lou was way to late. Should have rushed him as well, what was I thinking playing peaceful with Monte .

As for GPs I've had 2. GS used for philo bulb and the GM so plenty more to come. Another of my weak points I don't get enough early GPs when there more valuable.

I was worried about Lou becoming Hans vassal fortunately he didn't. Did get the AP vote to stop the war, had to defy this so the world considers me a villian.

Caste+paci was the plan. See if I can get Lib first

Staying in Jud? Should I expect another AI to come visiting? I guess I'll find out soon. I usually try to stay out of religion but take it when needed. Note Lou came and asked me to become Jewish, I was waiting for this to get the you accepted our state religion +1.

So back to the game and see what I can do.

 

[Rusten]

@Rusten

Spoiler :

Kinda weird decision to attack with muskets though.

Spoiler :

There's nothing weird in attacking with muskets, they're amazing when mixed with something else, you should try them sometime instead of the boring riflemen. I really feel the need to advertise for their use because I can't remember seeing them used at all in any official game the past months. I wanted to make a more detailed post about them and compare usage to other units, but I had too much fun with the war to remember screenies and notes.

Being able to draft that early is pure win, it's been especially helpful in my recent deity games. Riflemen work well with a tech lead but musketmen work well even in tech parity (although I was ahead this particular game) as your army size will be huge.

 

[mystyfly]

200AD - 1000AD

Spoiler :

Well it's looking way better than last time... Here you go:

This made me remember that because I reinstalled the game some time ago, I forgot bhuric's patch :

So I suddently was at war with Fred and Zara -> installed bhuric and loaded the last save...

Re-entered the game, and look, no Zara this time:

I've met the other AIs, Gil, WvO, Just (in this order).

The worst enemy issue solved itself mainly, a few trades helped there too. Diplomatically I'm in very good shape. My conf buddies (Fred, Hann) are pleased, so is Gil (who got some lopsided trades since he was very backwards). Only Just is annoyed, GK and WvO are cautious.

Fred got first to Philo but I still bulbed it (with a GS from Paris). I only knew him and Hannibal by this time so it was a bit of a gamble. Later I found that many of those other AIs even lacked CoL. That's that conf-thingie: once it's founded, the AI has a very low priority (I self-researched it after currency). I immediately adopted CS and teno started churning out GS. Next one was born 620AD and (partially) bulbed Edu. So far the last GS built an academy in Paris. Next GS is due in 6 and should bulb PP. I've again been stockpiling money and intend to not finish lib, wait and eventually get RP from lib. I've made lots of trades. Colonies are great for techtrading. GK traded techs Fred wouldn't and had considerabely lower prizes.

I also got pretty lucky with events: I got that one that gives +1 :beaker: (in teno) and the following turn a breakthrought in Machinery.

Some AIs have lit, drama, guilds on me but most don't even have paper (only WvO has it) and many lack some other techs as well (like CS, Theo).

I'm confident that I'll win this game. Hannibal is my target for a riflewar (naturally) even thought he is the most powerful civ I'm not afraid. I've got lots of CR-3 Axes and some woody-3 jags to upgrade. I've also built a couple of cats and keept my EPs focused on hannibal. I wish he'd meet Just and WvO so he'd divert his EPs more. Once I've got hannibal's land, I'll roughtly have 36% of the land. A quick strike vs some other civ and I'll have dom.

I also got the circumnavigation bonus (yay 3-MP workboats ) when I traded maps with WvO.

I also have lots of ressource trades going on and get ~40gpt from selling ressources.

Curious to finish this game and to see how you did!

Save
View attachment Immortal Student Montezuma AD-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[BurN]

800AD-1240AD.

Spoiler :

I decided on my gameplan. Since I got no marble and Hannibal is teching to Nationalism already AND he has marble... I don't think picking nationalism from lib would be a good idea.

I will try teching gunpowder and pick chemistry from lib. That way I can go to war with CR grenadiers. I'll pop a GM soonish to do a trade mission.


820AD - We're the wealthiest civ.


920AD - Teched gunpowder, I can pick chemistry from lib now. HOWEVER Hannibal needs 3 more turns to education and he can't bulb lib .. I need 7 turns for chemistry. Unless Hannibal can somehow research lib in 4 turns, I can pick steel from lib.

Also my GM pops. I put him in a caravel, heading towards Gilgamesh's capital.


940AD - Trade gunpowder to Frederick for guilds+gold.


1000AD - This looks like a very bad trade at first.



Maybe you can see it in the background. Hannibal needs 2 turns to lib and I need 2 turns to chemistry. So I'm 1 turn short. So I gave him the above trade. Have fun with your gunpowder while I get free steel. Dumbass!


1030AD - Liberalism, finally. Look at that baby 4.5k breakers, beats picking nationalism by far. I'm glad I did this move, next tech will be military science.

Also as you can see I did my trade mission. I have a decent amount of gold now for future upgrading of pikes->grens. (In retrospect I didn't know I could upgrade maces to grens as well. I feel kind stupid but pikes works just fine. )

Civic switch to slavery+theocracy. I'll be whipping CR pikes and cannons.




Tech overview looks pretty alright. I have edu/lib/chemistry/steel on all AI's except Hannibal.




1060AD - I get an awesome event. 124gold & permanent -2 happiness in exchange for an academy which I gladly take, I have plenty of happiness resources.

Also I bribe Frederick into war with Hannibal. It was pricey .. edu+chemistry+705 gold (damn). Next turn this trade will backfire on me since Frederick traded edu to all his palls.


1100AD - Well this is what I was hoping for. Willem dows Hannibal. Let them waste hammers on each other while I built my stack of totalpwnage.


1150AD - I'm missing a lot of techs, time for some trading. Trade lib+steel to Gilgamesh for Nationalism+economics+music+gold. Trade steel+lib to Willem for Printing press.

You might wonder why in gods name I'm trading these things away .. since Justinian and Frederick somehow managed to tech steel. I want to trade it before more Buddhists get it.


1160AD - Trade economics to Justinian for drama+worldmap+gold. I need gold badly since I'm upgrading my CR pikes. I don't care much about drama at this point.


1190AD - My sod + I dow Hannibal. 26 grens and 8 cannons VS his longbows and knights, I know where this is heading.




1200AD - I get an event that spread judaism. I pay 42 gold and spread judaism to 4 of my own and 4 foreign cities. I don't have the shrine yet but I'm aiming at getting a GP trough pacifism once this war is over. I count 24 cities .. that's going to be sweet for my future WS city.

Capture Thapsus, I raze it. It has a lot of overlap and in general it's just a lame city. The next target is Hippo down south, it has the SoZ. It didn't show up in top 5 cities so I had to search for it before dow'ing.


1220AD - Capture Hippo and keep it. I also switch to FR, since I'm done with producing units. I think this attack should be good enough to claim the continent.




1240AD - Stopped playing here. Trade military science+drama to Gilgamesh for Scientific method. Trade military science to Willem for Constitution.


Reached Carthage capital, it will go down easy next turn. Revolt+cannon+CR gren vs longbows? 99.99%




Capital, well I whipped more then I originally wanted here so it's kinda .. weak. Though 81gold, thanks for that shrine Louis. As you can see the SH has been contributing GP points, once this war is close to being done I will switch to pacifism and run some prophets here for a few turns. I can't wait to get the Judaism shrine in Orleans.




Diplo, looks good to me.




Gameplan from here: Wiping out Hannibal is obvious. From there I hope to stir some problems in the Buddhist block so I can just sit back, launch my space thing and leave this goddamn planet.

Maybe I should sign a DP with Justinian later..

 

[Rusten]

I have a slight preference for the Hemisphere map script, but others are fine too.

I never played that map so I took a look at 2-3 of them in world builder just now (small islands, 2 continents) and was very positively surprised. That's a very nice map script they added in BTS. It's like Continents, just that it has more flavour and strategy to it as there are some small clusters of islands and the shape of the landmass differs from game to game (less predictability and auto-pilot).

I'm going to use this script for several upcoming games I think, thanks for the heads up!

 

[Rusten]

Lately i've been playing Pangae alot, i find this map can be really difficult,usually you have to take considerable risks blocking other AIs, otherwise you can get boxed in easily. Alternatively you can rush another AI, i've found that doing so with only Axes and some defensive spears around 1000-750 BC is generally more succesful than going to cats and attack around 200 BC despite the fact that the cats can remove defenisve culture. Some reasons:

1. the AI has far more troops 200 BC compared to 1000 BC
2. Cats are considerably more expensive than axes, on the other hand you chop them out at 30 insteasd of 20 hammers apiece.
3. Most important, with cats you get back to peace +/- 300 AD instead of +/- 300 BC which is late to recover your economy on immortal. you're basically warring at a time you should be setting up your economy. Maybe next time we can play on a Pangae to address these sort of problems.

(missed this post earlier)

Agree with everything you said considering rushing alternatives for the exact same reason; the faster you can start recovering your economy the better. I've tried both approaches several times and the early rush is far more effective in my experience.

I also find Pangea challenging and a lot of fun. I played that map a lot before, but people kept saying it was much easier than other maps so I abandoned it and haven't played it for a while. However, after playing through all there is of standard maps I can't say I agree with that statement at all so i will probably go back to that and fractal mostly.

Every time I play continents (considered a tough map) I find it really easy to dominate my continent as there are only 3 or 4 Ais, whereas on Pangea you'll still have 5 of them left surrounding you if you take out 1. This means you have to be much more careful in every aspect from diplomacy to war to avoid getting dogpiled and taken out or set back too much to recover. It becomes a lot harder to gain land peacefully and you share borders with many more AIs so it all becomes a lot less predictable than a continents map. I too would like a game on pangea as that map is seldom used officially (unfortunately).

PS: This is not related to the game at hand at all and a general strategic post concerning immortal difficulty.