The University of Immortals

[silverbullet]

I am so jealous of all of you who started playing. I might not have time to play until Friday.... and it's so tempting to look at the spoilers.... I have to stop myself.

Just one request though - if you started playing, please don't take part in the 4000BC discussion of where to settle what to research etc.

 

[Sleepless]

Oops I might have got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the idea was to play your normal game and explain what and why you have done in the spoiler?

Still I can wait to let others catch up if need be.

The problem with group discussion is takes to long and people start to lose interest. In the deity succession game although a great game to play in (even if I had lost in the first session ) waiting to play the other turns was a bit boring. Plus you had to remember what you were doing, not that I had a clue in the first place.

Happy to go along with everyone else though. It might be a good idea to post the save game at the spoiler point then people can look at the log etc. My 2000BC save is not the same as the screenshot though.

 

[Sleepless]

Just another quick thought if you look at my spoiler and Gliese's even though his is later you will notice a slight difference.

2000BC

Spoiler :

I've met Fred from his wb you can just see it in the North and Gliese hasn't met him yet. As well as being on a small continent we now know that other lands can be reached pre optics.

 

[Melior Traiano]

This is an interesting start. It'll be fun to play this one through. BTW, are we just posting a played game all the way through or do we get to compare progress at checkpoints?

 

[Gliese 581]

Just another quick thought if you look at my spoiler and Gliese's even though his is later you will notice a slight difference.

2000BC

Spoiler :

I've met Fred from his wb you can just see it in the North and Gliese hasn't met him yet. As well as being on a small continent we now know that other lands can be reached pre optics.

Sleepless, I unfortunately already looked at your first spoiler since I figured there was nothing to spoil this early and since I'd already played more and on epic no less! So I also knew what this spoiler was about.
Well lesson learned I guess, I think the info I gleamed is negligible at this point though.
I played up until 900 bc, but only took a screenshot at the end, I must remember to take a few more next time!

Should I post the next update in a new post or just edit the old with a second spoiler tag below the first? (Don't worry, it'll be a bit longer than only to 900bc in any case). The first way is easier for those who are interested in my updates to follow along but the second method might be less cluttery and less confusing, I don't know. What sayeth the OP about this?

 

[Sleepless]

My vote goes for playing your normal game but posting the details at certain points. Doesn't matter when just show the dates in the spoiler then you know if it is safe to look or not. Plus some people are playing at different speeds so slightly different results.

The idea is to learn to play at this level so highlighting the good and bad moves (though I'm sure none of us would make any bad moves ) you make would be a great place to start.

About start

Spoiler :

I popped the hut in the 2nd turn same as Gliese yet he got more money than me Spoiler cos it gives hut result prob better result if you wait to 3rd turn

TBH playing at this level it should be reasonably obvious where to settle. But a quick explanation why you settled in a certain place and the aims for that city would be a great help. Some moves are obvious like mine and Gliese 2nd city.

Our 3rd is in a different place. I haven't posted that yet. It might turn out to be a move or a move. Unsure yet.

 

[silverbullet]

@Sleepless:

Oops I might have got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the idea was to play your normal game and explain what and why you have done in the spoiler?

That's exactly the idea. You didn't get it wrong.

There is no requirement that you wait for others to complete your game. As long as you put any new information within a spoiler and specify a year range, people can still play in a different schedule and catch up.

All I am asking is that if you played ahead of someone, don't give them advice that reveal extra information. For example, don't say:"build a lot of army, because in a few turns Gengis comes from another continent to attack".

Specifically, we started a small discussion of the optimal starting techs and build order, so I think that those who already started playing should avoid taking part in it since they know the spoilers (are we alone? Is a rush possible, etc).

Anyway, I don't want to put too much limitations. Lets all play and compare the games. This isn't meant to be a succession game thread. It is meant to be relatively quick (2~7 days for the whole game).

NOTE: if you reply to something posted in a spoiler, remember to put your reply in a spoiler too!!!

 

[Sleepless]

Understood, was just too eager to get started


See below.


Saltiana's spoiler is up to 650BC ish. Exactly the period I will post next.

 

[Saltiana]

650 BC

Spoiler :

Played 89 turn, I've placed mu second city just south of the copper to claim it and axe rush Louis.

I have pillaged his copper on turn one of the war and storming Lyon and Paris

I just got my first GG and noticed that I completely fergot potery

Here the capital : (no trees left)

And the front with the first GG :

I badly need the UB

PS : sorry for the lack of date !

 

[silverbullet]

@Saltiana: can you please post the year you played to outside the spoiler?
This way people know if they can open it or not

 

[Rusten]

Up until 475 BC:

Spoiler :

Settled in place and teched fishing while working the corn and growing to size two. I popped agriculture from the nearest hut (gold from a second) and then proceeded onto bronze working. My scout survived for a long time so I scouted an island chain to the east which I explored later on with a work boat and met some more AIs. We're short on space so axe-rushing Louis seemed to be the best idea here being aggressive and all.

Upon inspecting the map I noticed that:
1: barbs won't be a problem because we're boxed in and got minimal space
2: we need to gain as much land as possible as soon as possible

With that in mind I skipped archery and only made 2 warriors for a long time leaving my capital undefended. Not having to worry too much about barbs and in danger of being boxed in I made an early settler again and settled my second city 1 SW of the corn getting copper in the 2nd ring. As I got the city early I should still be able to hook up the copper in time after whipping a monument.



Added another city before the rush where most of you put it; getting gold, corn and cows. I figured the gold could come in handy if the rush slows down at any point.

850 BC:



600 BC:



525 BC:



I noticed earlier that Louis was the only one to have teched alphabet, so I planned to stop there and negotiate for a peace (will finish him off in 10-15 turns I guess as I have 13 axes remaining). Now I'm making some libraries and will spend the bounty gold to research currency to allow further expansion. That's where the peace came in very handy; after Louis gave me alphabet for peace I did the following deals that unlocks and give discount to currency (in addition to moving towards the killer UB):





Which leads to this tech screen at 475 BC (with ~400 gold stored):



Rush successful

I will probably put up a couple of cottages in Paris and Lyons, but every other city will be farmed and

 

[pigswill]

Turn 88. 675bc.

Spoiler :

I did things slightly different to the spoilers I've read so far (after I'd played my turns I hasten to add ). Once I saw how close Louis was I decided that an early rush was the thing to do so I beelined IW (got in 1960bc) and stuck with one city while building up a stackette of Jags (Iron, who needs it? Pure decadence).

Declared on Louis in 1200bc, captured Lyons in 1080bc and after a lot of mucking about (60% cultural defence and all that) I finally captured Paris in 675bc and took immediate and unconditional peace with Louis.

Overall I lost an axe and 9 jags and killed 3 axes, a spear, 5 archers and 4 chariots.

My tech rate is virtually non-existent and I'm way behind.

Was it worth it? I guess I'll find out later.

 

[Gliese 581]

I'm going to go ahead and post the continuation both in a new post and edit the old one with the same information, that way anyone who wishes can follow the game easily both now or later on.

Part 2 (470 BC):

Spoiler :

I started whipping and chopping axemen in all my three cities (the third city first whipped a monument and a barracks of course).
22 turns later I declared war and moved in with a stack of 9 axemen. Perhaps I should have brought a spearman with me but that's debatable.



In any case it turned out that Louis only had an unpromoted archer in the city and he whipped an axeman before I could attack but I only lost one axeman.
Here I made my first huge blunder as I razed the city, not realizing that it was the jewish holy city! Earning me unnecessary demerits with Hannibal on top of attacking his friend and wasting a potential future income source. I was sure I had checked the city but there you go, maybe I need to stop playing for a while and grab something to eat.

The 6 non-damaged axemen then proceeded toward Paris and was split in two groups with one group keeping an eye on the city whilst waiting for reinforcements and the other group moving down and pillaging Louis only source of copper.

A few turns later I captured the capital.



At least I kept this holy city. But with corn, cows, gold, horses and silk in the BFC, who could blame me? I had finished researching IW somewhere after razing the first city and now decided to do some deficit research to get writing for libraries, but first I needed pottery.

After razing the southern city (and forgetting to take a screenshot again) I healed up and then moved on Orleans.



The large number of axes with combat2 is due to Louis moving around and attacking with lots of chariots during the battle of Paris and the fact that I had multiple stacks for pillaging and strategic defense against chariots descending on my virtually unprotected homelands. I probably should have brought more spears but I anticipated a much fiercer resistance and more casualties during the city attacks.

After capturing Paris, Louis had no more axes and could only use chariots and archers which my advancing army didn't complain about. Orleans soon fell.



I deliberated for a few minutes wheter I should keep it or not since my economy was running solely on plunder at this time with even a 0% research deficit. In the end I decided that I couldn't afford to risk Hannibal stealing the ivory and that the city was of to much strategic importance as well as in a good spot, so I opted to keep it.
Hannibal has a big tech lead as well as about the same number of cities and a higher power rating than me and he's only at cautious (with an unnecessary -2 demerit from razing the jewish holy city ). I fear he might come after me with oliphants, and I want some of my own should that, Vishnu forbid, come to pass.

After finishing writing I immediately switched to libraries on the homefront which I whipped as soon as possible.



I also founded the decidedly unholy city of Texcoco at my preferred location. A few turns later I got a glimmer of hope regarding my backwardness as a great general was born abroad, hopefully indicating some strife and turmoil to keep my opponents back.



My gold was running low and my troops were getting restless, it was time to continue the glorious offense.



This time I razed the city though it might get refounded later on. I see a pattern here, raze, keep, raze, keep, raze and as it turns out, I'm probably going to keep the gold horses wine city to the east.
Hopefully Louis founded another city 1NW of the sea tile to so I can get another 3-food-resources-city without having to ask Hannibal to relenquish it. Perhaps a good future drafting city?
I plan on moving my capital to Paris and making Tenochtitlan my GP farm. The abundant food and whip-happy nature of my people means I'll probably go for a SE, at least early on.

Also about Sleepless 2000 BC spoiler:

Spoiler :

For now, since I still haven't met Frederick despite accidentally finding that out, I will play as though I'm alone with Hannibal until optics, though I should make contact soon.

For saves, check my first post on page 3. It seems I can't attach the same file twice?

 

[Sleepless]

2000BC - 650BC

As a newb at posting is there anyway you can save your posts whilst typing them? I've just lost a report after pressing preview post (not the first time). Also lose them when the visit our sponsors screen comes up.

I'll try again.

Spoiler :

Good to see no more spearmen from the last post. Althoug I plan on attacking Louis I plan to do it with cats/swords and axes. Shame our UU won't be able to use its special ability in this land. So I need some sort of economy.

For me the best option is a trade economy and the GLh would be a big part of my plan. Remembered you need a lighthouse to build it. Not for the first time I forgot you need masonry.

Did it help my economy?

You bet.

Was I lucky to get it.

I don't think the top city is on the coast. Wouldn't be very surprised to see HC or Rameses in this game as the Oracle went in 1920BC. Louis isn't getting any wonders which is a shame.

Regarding my third city I was wondering if this would be a good move or bad one. As soon as I settled it asked to become French. No I don't think so. Suffered a revolt not long after.

Looking a bit culturally opressed.

Looking better. Loius even built the corn farm for me.

I got one thing I wished for. Han has converted to Hindu and with Loius Jewish should be a bit of tension there. Even better for me Orleans is the Jewish holy city so Paris the Hindu holy city isn't producing any culture from that.

Techs learnt. The big one was writing for OB and foreign trade routes. Masonry, pot, the wheel and agriculture I think. I'll try and keep notes. Heading for Priesthood (cheap temples) really need the happiness.

Bad moves I made this turnset. Not building enough settlers. The cities pay for themselves with the GLh. Going via poly to priest, med was the quicker route. I might try for the GLib now I've gone for poly not sure yet. Anyone else see any please let me know.

Good moves settling my third city where I did (probably). Having more workers than cities. Soon to be level though. Getting a wb out to explore although it hasn't got very far yet. Noticing Louis settler so I will beat him to the spot. Just had a horrible thought at the moment there is a chariot and spear with the settler. If the spear stops off in the French city I might lose the site in which case it goes in the bad move bit.

Two main cities. Theyv'e both just been whipped for 2 pop so a bit small.

Need lots of techs will be interested to see how everybody else is doing economically. Although I can see a lot of bloodshed happening in French lands already .

Biggest priority is to get my cities out ASAP then take it from there.

Last question to put out there I should get a GM soon. Best use for him? I can't remember my first gp not being a gs.

 

[mystyfly]

4000BC-200BC

Spoiler :

After some turns it is quite clear that a axerush is the word of the day. I really don't like fighting creative civs early on (nearly as bad as protective ones) but Louis' wonder addiction somewhat makes up for it.

Tenochtitlan build order: worker (partially, while working the corn tile) > WB > WB > finish warrior (must've lost some hammers there..) > worker (@ size 4) > settler > warrior (to grow to happy cap, 5) > Barracks > worker > spear > axes

Teotihuacan founded 2240 BC: Monument > Barracks > spear > axes

Research: Fishing > Mining > BW > The Wheel > Agriculture > AH > Sailing > Writing > IW > ABC > Pottery


Now I think this is hardly an optimal opening - but I've very rarely rushed on immortal and usually regenerate when I get a coastal start (and I don't start with fishing).
Fishing seemed obvious to me. As I would have to research many techs until my workers would have... work I decided to grow pretty large first. After the two WBs were finished, I built a worker who did something (a mine IIRC) near teno and then roaded towards teo's site. Getting copper up was first priority (luckily, Louis doesn't have copper in his BFC either and seemed pretty pleased with his horses and didn't plant a city near his copper source (his cap pretty soon claimed it).
As expected he founded one of the early religions (he seems to be the only AI that does this despite starting w/o Mysticism) and later Judaism (for whatever twisted reason - denying it maybe ). He also built the ToA in Paris and the GW in Orleans. I'm very glad he built the ToA as it gives 5GPP (2 from the wonder, 3 from the free priest) and should keep me in the green (once I capture it).

I believe I DOWd louis @ 900BC (have trouble reading my notes ), Immediately pillage his copper (1 shock axe + 1 combat spear) and march towards Lyons. Take it with nearly no losses (kind RNG) and raze it. Partisans flee to the capital - warriors hehe. Very glad I pillaged his copper. Move on towards Paris. It isn't really heavy defended, has 60% defence but is on flatland (phew, thank god). Capture ToA. Louis seems like a hydra to me. I captured two cities and he built two more - and sent two settlers towards my territory, defended by one unit each - what was he smoking? - well I guess workers are always welcome... 3 axes head north to scout the other cities' locations. Find Tours defended by two archers. My veteran axes take them out easily in two turns (he whipped another one but does that matter, in a flatland city with 20% def... Raze it, get partisans again, 3 or 4 warriors , free xp. My main stack moves towards Orleans (and the GW). This is a tuff one as it is on a hill with 60% def and many more units. Capture & keep. All remaining units go towards Lyons. I wait some more turns until my injured veteran axes arrive and slaughter his warriors (and some archers), keep the city (jewish holy) and the french are no more (475 BC). Well I wont miss 'em.

No I'm recovering my eco of course. My cities have nothing more to build so build research. I build one more unit, a jag, in the cap (settled GG), woodsman-3, called woody, for mascot purposes (defending the cap) .
Hannibal pretty many techs on me I can't see atm but he lacks ABC so I'll be able to trade with him. No idea thought what I should do - research currency to trade around, research stuff like mono and trade for more expensive techs or backfill cheap techs?
GP in paris due in 2, 60% prophet and 40% merchant. Merchant = settle I think and prophet for shrine? Christianity has been founded as well as confucianism (by Hannibal).
I also have some problems in placing cities. I marked some spots on my s/s but not sure - one settler in place to go after one of them.

Why I chose this tech path: first 4 techs are obvious, to develop the cap and set up for the axe rush. Agri and AH to make teo productive. Sailing - well when I looked at this map I thought there should be some more AIs reachable via WB but I somehow forgot to build another one . Sailing was for the trade routs. Writing for spying and libraries. IW: to know where to pillage . ABC: trading. Potter: grannies and cottages. Louis built fairly many of them already and my 45693010 workers had nothing to do (many unirrigated tiles ). BTW I captured & razed a barb city (for cash). Very glad there were no more partisans .

If you have questions on my game, don't hesitate to ask. I think I made quite a mess here. Also I didn't mean to write a novel, sorry...

If you have ideas, especially concerning city placement and trades w/ hannibal (and where 2 go techwise) go ahead.

BTW WB finally on the way to Unknown Island...

Comments?


Some more info: (yeah, like you want to read EVEN more... )
Map

Spoiler :

Techscreen and demo

Spoiler :

Cities

Spoiler :

Save
View attachment Immortal Student Montezuma BC-0200.CivBeyondSwordSave

now reading YOUR spoilers

@ sleepless: the secret is ctrl - c and ctrl - v

 

[BurN]

Wow Rusten .. I can't believe how much our early game looks alike.

Spoiler :

I did the same early tech path as you. Put my cities in the same order and place. I attacked Louis about the same time as you and I captured Paris around the same time as you (5 turns later then you, but I waited for Louis to build his Shrine.)

Though two things are different. I didn't make a workboat yet to search other AI's then Louis, Fred & Han. And I took the meditation->priest->writing->col route.

I stopped playing after capturing 2 french cities, I'll grab a few more and demand some techs for peace hopefully. Also I've been running some scientists to research to CoL while at low science slider due unit upkeep. I'll get my 1st GS soonish, I'm not sure what to do with it yet. I could bulb phil to catch up since I'm behind in techs, though settling wouldn't be bad either. Tbh I can't even bulb phil yet, since I still need alph.

Anyways I've played this session a while back, just been too lazy to actually write something down. I'll do a more detailed post tomorrow probably.

But tbh at 500BC, I think your game looks much better then mine. Ai's in your game seem to be teching slower then in mine, probably because all AI's in my game had alphabet pretty early.

By the way what's your opinion on Shwedagon? I think it could be worth it considering we are spiritual & have gold resource, Aesthetics is a pretty good tech to trade around anyways. Switching between theo, paci, OR, FR .. would offer some nice options.

 

[Rusten]

Spoiler :

(5 turns later then you, but I waited for Louis to build his Shrine.)

Spoiler :

He didn't have any prophet wonders (just the Great Wall) in my game so there was nothing to wait for.

Spoiler :

But tbh at 500BC, I think your game looks much better then mine. Ai's in your game seem to be teching slower then in mine, probably because all AI's in my game had alphabet pretty early.

Spoiler :

They might've started slow but they really picked up their speed a little later (played to 250 AD). 475 BC is pretty early as well, they usually don't sky-rocket until a little later on immortal in my experience.

The game is going great though, and being able to rush towards currency at 100% slider with the gold helps a lot.

Spoiler :

By the way what's your opinion on Shwedagon? I think it could be worth it considering we are spiritual & have gold resource, Aesthetics is a pretty good tech to trade around anyways. Switching between theo, paci, OR, FR .. would offer some nice options.

Spoiler :

It's perhaps better with spiritual, but I usually build that one for cash only (stop 1 turn away from completion). I skipped the aesthetics route this time (done it so many times sheesh!) and thought about killing Hannibal with maces, but something came up that put an end to that plan unfortunately.

That wonder is also less juicy for me as I don't have a shrine or hinduism present in most of my cities yet. It would take a lot of hammers that I'd rather want to put in infrastructure. I'm thinking of just staying in no-state for now until I have it present everywhere because there's a religion block in my game consisting of every other ai and I'd lose all my trading partners if I change.

More details in my next set.

PS: Sleepless; just write the post in word or some other text-program and then paste it in here when it's done.

 

[mystyfly]

A couple of questions:

@ Rusten/BurN:

Spoiler :

(Roughtly) how many axes did you have ready to attack when you DOWd Louis? Did you chop forests to get them out asap? Did you connect copper to your cap via roads or via coastal route?

 

[Rusten]

@mystyfly

Spoiler :

~10 axes, 4 spears. Reason for having so many spears was that I'd be able to pillage his copper but he'd still have a source of horses (so I expected several chariots).

I chopped forests in every city (leaving 2 for health).

I used roads as I'd need them anyway in order to swiftly bring new axes into battle. Didn't tech sailing until after writing IIRC.

Edit: This is spoiler info for those that didn't start yet, you should add the tags as well

 

[Olodune]

Up to 2000BC (AH and BW are known...)

Spoiler :

Well the name of the game is soon simply defined when we see Louis' borders so close to the east -> build to an axe rush. I'll settle two cities first though.

Early tech path:
Fishing->Mining->BW->Ag->AH->Pottery

Early Build Order:
Warrior(partial)->Workboat(@size2)->Workboat->Warrior(finish)->Worker(@size4)->Settler(Whip for 2)->Warrior->Warrior->Worker(@size5)->Settler(Ongoing, will whip for 2)

Hut pop for gold and a scout (eaten). Second scout is killed by an archer after making contact with Hannibal.

A fortuitous event:

Kingdom of the Insane One in 2000BC:

Now I can compare ...