D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
EDIT: Never mind.
Sad to see you go, Nuclear.
Sad to see you go, Nuclear.
The World Turned Upside Down
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
In my mind, NukeKid is Russia.
Salute, my Communist friend. Here's to your future return.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Maybe; but he did more as Russia.
Thats debatable. His colonial sales and actions in and after WW2 greatly changed Western Europe and its power structure. While as SU he launched a grand invasion of Europe and slaughtered millions, the political situation he created as a result was not one that is much different than before his invasion. The EL was reintroduced as a result, yes, but many old rivalries still remain which is why theres an Entente.
human-slaughter
brand new year
Yes I agree as France he changed the total dynamic of European Domination of Africa and Indo China. USSR just made a lot of trouble for Europe.
D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
Which pretty much made you, Warman, extremely powerful.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
He made no colonial "sales:" those lands were forcibly taken from him by Liberia and her allies. The only seminotable thing he did as France was drive it into the ground by continually joining the wrong side in the wars. Perhaps one could point out how France led the way in the anti-communist activism (combined with Iberia and Russia, I might add), but the USSR changed the political dynamic hugely with their invasion. Italy is no longer queen of the mediterranean; the EL was re-formed; Germany was torn to pieces; the USA was capable thereafter of establishing an Empire of the Western Hemisphere (though their own invasion of South America is just as much to blame for that; I mean the extension of the US' sphere of influence into northern Europe). Like it has been said before: nothing like a war to shake things up. The very notion that this war did nothing is silly. I might point to Africa and East Asia, which both experienced changes diplomatically and economically. Because of Italy's sale of land to Abyssinia (in turn caused by the USSR's invasion), Abyssinia was able to sell itself as one of the major spokesnations of the continent. The cession of the CSA also lent to the creation of a mostly-independent Africa.
And if I want to get more specific, allow me to point out the following: 1. The USSR's invasion delayed Germany's nuclear weapons development. Had the USSR not invaded, Germany would have built the bomb first, drastically changing the international outlook as nuclear power would not have been used for war first.
2. The USSR's invasion changed the political climate in Scandinavia: Norwegians lost faith in the Union and rebelled, creating in the long run the present-day nation of Norway.
3. The USSR's invasion changed the political climate in Central Europe, creating the Entente out of the ashes of former German hegemony, and also helped give the German Civil War more heat. Now the Germans are rather aggressive; hmm, what could that possibly mean for the world?
4. The USSR's invasion destroyed the former credibility of Communists across the world. Never has their reputation been so horrible: the Moscow Pact (now Socialist Security Pact) was much more respectable than the SSP (I see how this can be debatable; just let me say that where, formerly, communist parties had existed in most nations, now they are practically gone from the West).
5. The USSR's invasion spurred on the East-West rivalry between Nippon and the USA. Although this fizzled out (disappointingly), it began a cold period which changed the political situation in Nippon to support the Nipponese Nationalists.
6. Extended from above, the USA elected an isolationist as president, which destroyed the ATO and caused embitterment which was not helped by the fact that the USA was forced to use the nuke in war. Had the war never happened, the ATO might still exist, or at least there wouldn't be so much enmity between Europe and the US.
I could go on, but you get my point. I haven't even touched on the Balkans, the Middle-east, or West Africa.
human-slaughter
brand new year
Umm france was the first to sell off all their colonies in south africa and in the indian ocean. You wernt in the game then so I forgive you.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,078
Actually being in the game then, I understand that the "sale" only took place once Italian troops were firmly in occupation of the former French colonies. And based on my conversations with the Farow, NukeKid had been forced by some third-party to sell the colonies to you, and not to me (despite by ability and willingness to outbid all comers). It wasn't so much selling off as the various land-grabbing powers giving France some money so that it saves face (like I did with Spain and the Philippines).
NukeKid's greatest action as France was to screw over Western Europe, as a result of banning the Communist Party when you have a Radical Socialist government. The resulting Civil War, colonial land-grab, and all led to the centers of power in Europe shifting further east afterwards, into Italy and Germany, who battled it out for dominion in WW2. His invasion as the USSR continued this trend, as Italy and Germany no longer occupy the superpower position in Europe after they were devastated in the war, and Poland, Hungary, and other Eastern countries like Serbia (or the Ukraine) rise to prominence.
NukeKid's greatest action as France was to screw over Western Europe, as a result of banning the Communist Party when you have a Radical Socialist government. The resulting Civil War, colonial land-grab, and all led to the centers of power in Europe shifting further east afterwards, into Italy and Germany, who battled it out for dominion in WW2. His invasion as the USSR continued this trend, as Italy and Germany no longer occupy the superpower position in Europe after they were devastated in the war, and Poland, Hungary, and other Eastern countries like Serbia (or the Ukraine) rise to prominence.
Your many references to the change in Mediterranean and African dynamic was a result of the brotherhoods invasion, and not the USSR. Same with the American dynamic. The "loss in faith in the communist party" was already lost 2 decades earlier in WW1, well at least in the West.
The war changed a lot I agree, but the USSR by itself was not the prime motivator, it was a piece in a greater machine. France meanwhile was another piece, but one I think effected things far greater. Western Europe is no longer a real power and 'European' now means something more to do with central/southern Europe than it does with west. (If you asked an American in OTL 1950 to name European countries they'd probably be able to only the nations not behind the iron curtain, now its the whole of Europe.) In the long run I think this has a far greater political effect than the USSR's invasion.
The war changed a lot I agree, but the USSR by itself was not the prime motivator, it was a piece in a greater machine. France meanwhile was another piece, but one I think effected things far greater. Western Europe is no longer a real power and 'European' now means something more to do with central/southern Europe than it does with west. (If you asked an American in OTL 1950 to name European countries they'd probably be able to only the nations not behind the iron curtain, now its the whole of Europe.) In the long run I think this has a far greater political effect than the USSR's invasion.
Hi, I'm bestshot9 and my friend human-slaughter on these boards told me about this NES and it looked pretty interesting (I've never played an NES before, so I might need some help at first, my AIM name is mohplayer9) and so I was wondering if I could join as Siam?
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
The USSR's invasion and the Brotherhood's invasion were tied together. One could not have happened without the other; so in that sense, it is partly the fault of Nuke Kid and partly the fault of the Brotherhood that these things happened. It remains a fact, however, that Nuke Kid was involved.
And Western Europe is making a comeback under the EL, which it remains to be seen whether it will have any sort of major impact. So I suppose from a historical standpoint we have more to see of his actions as France, and less so of the USSR. But I maintain that, as France, he did very little except get pushed around.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
Orders are sent.
Welcome to the new players, and send in those orders for this first turn.
This is the 23 hour warning.
Nuclear_kid you no doubt were one of the most influential players within this NES, The story would have been very different without you.
This is the 23 hour warning.
Nuclear_kid you no doubt were one of the most influential players within this NES, The story would have been very different without you.
carmen510
Deity
EQ: You still haven't done anything to the National Background thread.
Yeah, sorry about that carmen, i've lacked the time i thought i possessed. I did parts of North/South America. If there's any nations that interest you on the map, just send me a PM and we can discuss there.
