The worst Century?

[Mongoloid Cow]

Do you think he knows about the fact that the Americas were heavily populated before the Europeans came? I mean, he doesn't know about the near-complete collapse of the populous and advanced (comparitively) Mayan civilisation in the 6th or so Century.

(I've heard that it now looks like there were 200 million people living in North America alone before the Europeans came. Is that true?)

 

[Provolution]

The fall of the Mayas was a longer decline leading up to the 11. Century.
America was indeed less populated than Europe at the same period.
The native Americans worst century was no doubt the 16th, with a loss of more than 60 % of the original population, due to small pox, hunger and genocide.

 

[Xen]

A) even state sin the americas wer ecollapsing during the 6th century, including near genocides, wars, and a near total collapse of civlization, period.

B)that said, we're not tlaking about just the americas, or just europe, but globally, period; in light of this, and even if we were to disrgard, the 6th century universally comes up as grade A ****-taculer, period, for every region on earth with any kind of major human habitation

C)I have my suspicions that your arguing your post to further your demi-racist propaganda spewed in other threads

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

The fall of the Mayas was a longer decline leading up to the 11. Century.

Ye, but IIRC most of the kingdoms and cities were destroyed / abandoned around the 6th Century. So much **** hit the fan in that century internationally, but I still stand by my assertation the 20th Century was worse. I mean, it was the first time there were nukes, chemical weapons, biological weapons, Fascists and Communists, two World Wars, MAD, etc. It was the first time in history that people wanting to take over the whole world and kill off people hey didn't like for being of the wrong ancestry or race or whatever.

 

[Provolution]

Xen

I really see that last post as clearly pursuing the attack of my person, calling my threads as "semi-racist propaganda" simply because I advocate the 14th Century as a worse century than the sixth. 14th Century is well documented the loss, not ehe sixth.
However, attacking the person not the issue in this thread is pretty low, we are just talking historics here, and going that far to ascertain your pet-century, the sixth, the grade A does remind me of the election campaigns you are so famous for in Florida, dirty and disorganized. To explain my political position, I am NOT racist, in fact I am one of the few people that point out the plight of poor people in Congo, Rwanda and so on, not talking about Israel or Palestinians, with an intifada comparable to a medium
street war of Sao Paolo. The bias of the left is pro-arab/palestinian, and the bias of the christian conservative right is the jews, and almost everyone forgets the poor africans. That I am progressive and challenging enough to mention all the problems caused by pan arabic national socialism and put these to the limelight, and that I mentioned that the end-product of the Northern European superculture is greater than any other civilization end product should not be confused by racism, demi-racism or propaganda. However, ideologically, you are free to criticize for not giving the stage to the Middle East or America for that matter, two regions in the world you Xen may have a special affinity for. I am very pro-American, but most of the action takes place in Eurasia. If more nations adopted a more Northern European model as opposed to a southern European model, they would surely be in a better shape, most historical evidence proves that. With regards to racism, I avoid my own hicks and rather drink some whisky with my Tunisian, Congolese and Japanese friends.

Xen, you turned this personal, and I answered personal, without attacking you back, even though I could have done so with bringing forth some malign politically correct subculture.

 

[Xen]

A) ask around; i have little love for either Asia, or the americas; europe is my homeland, the region I love

B)you have repeatedlly ocntinued an agenda of putting down all cultures and area that ar eunder the banne rof "latin" ina dvocation soem nordic centered world post the fall of papal power in many, and varried threads; it has stricken a cord with me, and i can assure you, i will not rest until you are fully rebutted, and are foreced to see the truth of the matter; what is that truth? that no region or culture is "superior", that they all offer choices the peoples as a whole either create or adopt based on preference, and how thie rlife, as well as how they themselves wish to relfect upon the world. People often hgial me as a bastard because they belive me to be utterlly biased towards westenr culture and civlization, and to an extent, they may even be right; but I'm no racist, and I;m no biggpot; i hate them with every core of my being; and you sir, have rubbed your self off as one to me.

 

[Xen]

to put a ending cap on all this,my stern argument for the fallacy fo your ?northern european culture" is that its all founded on the principles of Romel and indeed, the US in particuler, is almost a whole-sale copy of the roman republic in its form of government, and shockinglyl close to ancient Rome in its culture and values.

 

[Provolution]

I am not a protestant, but you should read Max Webers book, "the protestant ethics and the spirit of capitalism". This masterpiece of socioology explains in detail how a guilt as opposed to shamedriven culture becomes economically more succesful. And yes, we may respect other cultures to live side by side in "harmony". but certain cultures can never expect any economic wealth, at all, unless they change their ways. Countries that sucessfully integrated Northern europe originated institutions, such as Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, not to mention Singapore and Hong Kong, and so on, are all hich tech states that dealt with Northern European cultures. Just compare Macao to Hong Kong for example.

Fully rebutted, you are idealist. I may make pointed claims to illustrate a point and then add nuances, but that does not make me a "biggpot" (bigot?) or a racist.
In fact, genetically speaking, arabs and germans belong to the same caucasian race, and the Iraqi General Izzat Ibrahim al Douri is a redhead with Moustache which could equally well look like a waffen ss general or a member of the Provisional IRA. So, it is not a question about race. Yet, the pan-arabic national socialist movement is the new threat, and it is a national and cultural threat, not a race threat. It is the content of their ideologies, ways to run things and doctrines that should be levelled, not the people. Hence population controls and migration controls. Through admitting people from Tunisia and Bahrain, and not Iraq, Algeria and Yemen, would make that clear.
Even more so , admitting more people from Far East Asia would make the right statement towards this expansive culture that they are isolated. Vancouver is an example where suddenly a third of the population are Chinese, but it works well.

The problem with the arabic culture is its total immersion with Islam, as the language is carried by the Koran, as the bible was carrying latin in medieval times. When some arabs states undergo something like the European reformation, and even their own 30 year war, and split the arab world into progressives and religious zealots, that would be a different situation. Key statistics, arab patent claims, economic growth, ethnic conflicts, population growth, human right cases and so on all suggests this is the worst total doctrinal system living at large on earth, and must be stopped.

Rebutting me would make no difference, rebutting these will.

 

[Xen]

A) race counts for little to nothign in my book, aside from superficial differnces; I've tkaen severl acourse sin genetics and biology, and from that stnadpoint of learning, the term "race" lost almost all emanign to me a long time ago; which is why when i see you spouts baout about northern european culture beign domiant and superior, I cannto help but harkon tot he same propganda spread by the nazis.

B)i dont care about the arbas; by historical interes tin th emiddle east as far as the arbas ar eocnerned stops with thie rmilitary history, and specificlly, wo it intertwines with the west; ancient middle-eastern history is a different matter.

C)how did the arabs get into the argument anyway? I make my own claims that the descnedts of roman culture hold thw most sway over the earth at the moment; not nessisarilly a bad thing IMO, and in some ways a better alterntive to soem others (though inturn, other have soem advated of ideology over the roman stance, makign them equals) but its a far cry from northern europe beign the main influncer on world culture; for northern europes own cultures is hust another facet of the now pan-european form of bastardized Roman culture that origniate din italy during the renaissance, and spread, in time, to all europe.

 

[Provolution]

I agree with the Roman analogy, but you rule out the Reformation and certain cultural indicators and values that are different from a guilt and shame driven culture. Roman culture is the epitomy and origin of Western culture. Northern Europe is nothing but a franchise of the pre-papal Rome. However, the Papal influence between 450 to 1530 is the darkest period of European history, and only with the Reformation, Europe began to rise again. Catholic South learnt their lesson and reformed and Protestant North threw out the Papacy. The Vatican is today more a source of problems than solutions, with the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (luckily squashed by Napoleon 1798), Knights Templar (burnt out 1314) and the Teutonic Knights (demilitarized 1923 and adopted by the NAZI party, finally utterly crushed 1945). Add the Assassin culture of Alamut, and we have a series of political assassination cultures spawning from the Islamist and Catholic world. Again, present day EU is a succesful hybrid of North and South, but the South has a lot to learn from the North still. Ireland is a success story of such a nation going more secular.

 

[jonatas]

Papal influence between 450 to 1530 is the darkest period of European history, and only with the Reformation, Europe began to rise again. Catholic South learnt their lesson and reformed and Protestant North threw out the Papacy.

i disagree with you here... because the Portuguese established the first modern global empire beginning in the 1400's and stretching into the 1500's... including South America, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent and Asia...
at this time the Portuguese court was the richest in Europe...
this is hardly something that should be overlooked, though it often is by the english speaking world... the voyages of discovery did not begin with Columbus like so many seem to think....

in addition to this you have the Renaissance in Italy, which only later spread to Northern Europe....

 

[Provolution]

The Italian renaissance and Portugal was a sign of improvement, but the real shift took place 1530 and onwards. The Papacy took too much. Besides, Portugal housed the Knights Templar against the Papacys interest and became a long term ally with UK.

The Italian renaissance did not cooperate with Europe that much and avoided technology dissemination to the point that Venetian patent laws included the assassionation of certan escaped specialists to keep the invention secret.

 

[Jack the Ripper]

A upcoming TV series on terrestial UK television concentrates on the 1300s, titling it as the worst century to be alive in (presumably from the trailers it is mainly about Europe). What do the Civ Fanatics think of this?

If ur referring to the second half of the century, yes. If you're a hardcore scottishman like myself, the 1300s was the best time to be alive. I mean, William Wallace? Bannakbahn(Forgive spelling)? Scotland's independance? Scotland must have been having a massive haggis feast with bagpipes playing from coast to coast (do NOT correct me on this one, i DO know when bagpipes were invented).
I think the worst century was 100-1 B.C. because of the destructuon and/or takeover of egypt and the destruction of the great library of alexandrea. I could write an epic on why this century sucked for more reasons but for the sake of time I wont. I think Jesus came at the right time