The3 - Great Alexandria

[barbslinger]

Is it my understanding we won't get the GL and the GLH? This is one of the tenets of the game. Was the research path wrong or prebuild not started for GLH soon enough?

 

[Methos]

Is it my understanding we won't get the GL and the GLH? This is one of the tenets of the game. Was the research path wrong or prebuild not started for GLH soon enough?

I might have confused things since I failed to mention at the end of my turnset the barracks in Alexandria was a pre-build. The barracks was finished and Alexandria built two swordsman when it should have been building up shields for either the GL or GLH.

Messing around with Alexandria in six turns I can get the GL to be 4 shields short. I can’t see anyway to pick up those additional 4 shields and honestly don’t see if it would even matter. According to compmage’s turn log their GL will be done in 3.

In case you're wondering I thought about bringing the two workers up from Elephantine and switching a watered plains to mine. If we also switch Memphis to a worker (wasting a ton of shields) we can get him to the same tile as the other two and get that mine swap done in one turn. If Memphis continues producing workers we may be able to drop that 4 shield shortage to three. Still wouldn't matter though.

Sorry, I should have mentioned the barracks in Alexandria was never meant to be finished.

So the question is, if we don’t get the GL is this game considered a loss?

 

[compmage]

I might have confused things since I failed to mention at the end of my turnset the barracks in Alexandria was a pre-build. The barracks was finished and Alexandria built two swordsman when it should have been building up shields for either the GL or GLH.

That would have made a difference, wasted 4 turns all the barracks shields. I should also have changed to a prebuild sooner even though I didn't know that barracks was ment as a prebuild. I don't know exactly how many turns the Carthaginians have left on their GLH, but I suspect they are almost finished. If I am right we would have missed out on atleast one of these wonders regardless.

Messing around with Alexandria in six turns I can get the GL to be 4 shields short. I can’t see anyway to pick up those additional 4 shields and honestly don’t see if it would even matter. According to compmage’s turn log their GL will be done in 3.

The only way we could have gotten the GL is if I had changed immediately to a larger prebuild, and even then I think we would have missed out on the GLH.

Sorry, I should have mentioned the barracks in Alexandria was never meant to be finished.

Not entirely your fault. I have never played for a 20K before and I'm not used to prebuilds. I should have changed sooner.

So the question is, if we don’t get the GL is this game considered a loss?

It might still be possible to get the 20K victory although I think Theos wanted all 3 AA wonders. I think it should be his call.

 

[theos]

No loss yet, just more challenging. Must push to get as many Medieval wonders as possible.

Republic comes in, start on Lit due in 6, leave revolt until after GA

I've always wondered about this. Obviously not worth revolting if you're going to get a 6-turn anarchy, but if you're religious is it worth revolting in your golden age to get rid of the despotic penalty. I've generally assumed it was worth it and revolted.

 

[compmage]

I've always wondered about this. Obviously not worth revolting if you're going to get a 6-turn anarchy, but if you're religious is it worth revolting in your golden age to get rid of the despotic penalty. I've generally assumed it was worth it and revolted.

I think it depends on what the current status is, the earlier in your GA you are the more you are likely to gain, however, at the same time if you have plenty of cities then even 1 turn of no production can add up to a lot. If we had just started our GA I might have revolted, but IIRC we were near the end and in a race for wonders.

 

[theos]

Got the save now. Will play over the weekend and probably won't have it back until Monday.

 

[theos]

The Reign of Theos III

550 BC (0) - Switch Alexandria to Great Library due in 8. Even if we do miss it the cascade will go to other wonders (like Temple of Artemis, a popular AI choice). We'll fall back on the Great Lighthouse with whom we are only in competition with size 6 Carthage. I also plan is to get some Workers up there to mine the area to speed it up by a turn or two. Luxuries down to 20%. Science up to 70%, Polytheism due in 2 turns. Sell Granary in Memphis for 15 gold (Pyramids gives us free granaries). Giza, Hieraconpolis and Pi-Ramesses to Settlers - there's still a lot of land to grab.

530 BC (1) - Free workers head to Alexandria.

IT - Learn Polytheism (turn science down to 0% - we can research at a defecit if we miss the Great Library). Memphis produces a Settler. Elephantine produces a Worker.

510 BC (2) - Found Abydos near the Wines.

IT - Romans complete The Mausoleum.

490 BC (3)
IT - Heliopolis produces a Settler.

470 BC (4) - We find the Babylonians' territory.
IT - Giza produces a Settler.

450 BC (5) - Finish time of Great Library cut down to 2 turns with mining. Found Asyut by the northern sugar.

430 BC (6) - Our still-exploring Warrior in Persian lands pops a hut and gets barbs.

IT - Alexandria builds the Great Library - starts the Great Lighthouse. Pi-Ramasses produces a Settler.

410 BC (7) - With the Great Library built, we revolt and get our expected 2 turns of anarchy.

IT - Learn Construction from the Great Library.

390 BC (8) - Found Avaris at the edge of the desert separating us from the Romans.

IT - Establish the Alexandrian Republic.

370 BC (9)
IT - Hieraconpolis produces a Settler.

350 BC (10) -
IT - Memphis and Heliopolis produce Settlers.

330 BC (11) - Found Lisht just north of our gold hill.

310 BC (12) - Mining Alexandria drops The Great Lighthouse time down to 12 turns.
IT - Rome demands the Republic from us and being the peaceful types we are, we give it to him. We connect up our Wines from Abydos. Can't drop lux though.

290 BC (13)
IT - Elephantine produces a Settler.

270 BC (14)
IT - Heliopolis produces a Settler.

250 BC (15)
IT - Pi-Ramasses and El-Amarna produce Settlers.

230 BC (16) - Found Buto by the whale in the north. Found Edfu by the fish near the Wine. Found Pithom by the whale near the Wine.

IT - Memphis produces a Settler.

210 BC (17) - Found Kahun in a position to use the Memphis oasis. Memphis set to produce its last settler. Found Mendes across the Roman desert by the great Roman river.

190 BC (18)
IT - Giza produces a Galley. This is for transporting Settlers down behind the Persian lands.

170 BC (19)

150 BC (20) - Found El-Ashmunein right near Gordium; it needs culture ASAP to fight for cultural control. Found Tanis in the desert between Avaris and Heliopolis. Alexandria has 820 culture with +16 cpt.

Conclusion

Currently only the Hittites have Currency and are in the Middle Ages. We have 943 gold which can be used for rushes as needed, particularly for cultural buildings in Alexandria once the Great Lighthouse completes (4 turns needed, hopefully sufficient to beat Carthage which has been building the Lighthouse forever). There is still so much land to settle south of Persia and galleys are being built to transport Settlers down there.

We can build our Forbidden Palace - I'm thinking Elephantine as a good place to build.

Note that we still haven't met Sumeria.

 

[theos]

The fertile lands of the Alexandrian Republic...

The save game for Methos: The3 at 150 BC

 

[Methos]

Got it........

 

[Methos]

Great job on getting the GL!! I was afraid we'd lose it.

 

[Methos]

You mentioned Memphis was done building settlers, what about workers instead? We are lacking in that department. 14 workers for 20 cities.

Edit: Took a glance at the save and see several other cities are building workers so nix the above.

 

[compmage]

Very well done on getting the GL. If we were going to miss out on one of these I didn't want it to be the GL. Now if only I have misjudged the AI GLH build and we still manage to get that, then even more reason to celebrate, I found out this morning that my wife is prenant with our second.

I promise to try and not give everyone a heart attack everytime I play.

 

[Methos]

I found out this morning that my wife is prenant with our second.

Congratulations!

 

[Methos]

I'm only on turn 6 but figured I'd mention we did get the Great Lighthouse. Will finish tomorrow.

 

[compmage]

Congratulations!

Thanks.

I'm only on turn 6 but figured I'd mention we did get the Great Lighthouse. Will finish tomorrow.

This is very good news indead. I hope our worker situation has also improved.

 

[theos]

Great job on getting the GL!! I was afraid we'd lose it.

On the lower levels at least, my experience is that you're more likely to get a Great Wonder than miss it - I don't know what the AI does but it seems woefully incompetent at building them; only the higher levels' obscene bonuses seem to overcome this. Since Carthage was a woeful size 6 coastal town I wasn't particularly worried we'd miss the Lighthouse either.

You mentioned Memphis was done building settlers, what about workers instead? We are lacking in that department. 14 workers for 20 cities.

I do tend to under-produce workers and I fully endorse the building of more workers, from Memphis or anywhere else.

One thing that I didn't build at all in my turn was military. We're going to need some soldiers soon, particularly if Persia starts feeling constrained (we've settled agressively near some of his cities).

I found out this morning that my wife is prenant with our second.

Congrats!

I'm only on turn 6 but figured I'd mention we did get the Great Lighthouse.

Woohoo!

 

[compmage]

On the lower levels at least, my experience is that you're more likely to get a Great Wonder than miss it - I don't know what the AI does but it seems woefully incompetent at building them; only the higher levels' obscene bonuses seem to overcome this. Since Carthage was a woeful size 6 coastal town I wasn't particularly worried we'd miss the Lighthouse either.

To be honest I very rarely build wonders in the AA or even MA...

I do tend to under-produce workers and I fully endorse the building of more workers, from Memphis or anywhere else.

I toke your comment to mean that Memphis would be abandoned after building that last settler. It was only a temporary city IIRC, ment just for a settler factory. If it isn't stealing important tiles for surrounding cities it might be good to keep it a little longer as a worker factory though. Much of our land is desert which isn't very productive before being improved.

One thing that I didn't build at all in my turn was military. We're going to need some soldiers soon, particularly if Persia starts feeling constrained (we've settled agressively near some of his cities).

Always peace makes this difficult but it would help to have only 1 front. A strong military that helps with demands and is placed in such a way that we could take out most of persia before they demand peace, assuming they declare, would be great. To do this would require fast military units though, swordsman are too slow, but horseman aren't really all that strong.

Congrats!

Thanks!

Some questions:

1) Are we turning research off completely until the GL becomes obsolete?
2) What are the best MA wonders for culture and overall peaceful play? As I said, I don't build many AA of MA wonders so I'm not sure which work best.

 

[theos]

To be honest I very rarely build wonders in the AA or even MA...

Many of these wonders are very powerful but on higher difficulty levels there are normally better things to do than build expensive wonders that you'll probably be beaten to anyway.

I toke your comment to mean that Memphis would be abandoned after building that last settler. It was only a temporary city IIRC, ment just for a settler factory. If it isn't stealing important tiles for surrounding cities it might be good to keep it a little longer as a worker factory though. Much of our land is desert which isn't very productive before being improved.

Didn't think about Worker factory - worth it if we can do a 2-turn factory there without disrupting the nearby cities. When we think we have enough workers then it has to go - its presence gives a corruption penalty to every other city we have other than the capital since it's the closest to the capital.

Always peace makes this difficult but it would help to have only 1 front. A strong military that helps with demands and is placed in such a way that we could take out most of persia before they demand peace, assuming they declare, would be great. To do this would require fast military units though, swordsman are too slow, but horseman aren't really all that strong.

We might get Chivalry before Persia becomes uppity. In that case we capture some cities quickly with Knights. With that in mind, I'd build horsemen with a view to upgrading but can attack Persia if he declares before then.

1) Are we turning research off completely until the GL becomes obsolete?

I'd say no. Once in the Middle Ages I'd want to get to Theology as soon as possible. But while Sistine's is being built we've got no use for the other techs - we can only build one wonder at a time - so no research until we want to build another wonder.

2) What are the best MA wonders for culture and overall peaceful play? As I said, I don't build many AA of MA wonders so I'm not sure which work best.

It's probably more important to determine which are the best wonders for the 20k win since that's our goal.

• Sistine's Chapel is great for a builder game and is 6 cpt to boot.
• JS Bach's is also very nice and 5 cpt, but is a sidetrip on the tech tree.
• Copernicus and Newton's at 4 and 6 cpt with a combined +200% to science in Alexandria are just what we need.
• Shakespeare's Theatre, 8? cpt and removes the size 12 city cap in C3C. This makes building future wonders even easier as we can get Alexandria up to size 20 quite quickly. A must-get.

Smith's is useful but only 3 cpt so is more of a 'if it's still available' wonder (might want to build it in another city if we don't have the time to do it in Alexandria). Sun Tzu's, Leonardo's and Magellan's are good in warmongering or non-pangea games but are low priority for us.

 

[Methos]

Some questions:

1) Are we turning research off completely until the GL becomes obsolete?
2) What are the best MA wonders for culture and overall peaceful play? As I said, I don't build many AA of MA wonders so I'm not sure which work best.

IMO, I would not turn off research just because of the GL. Currently it is set at 0% and I'm doing my best to not change that, but right now it isn't needed. We need only Currency to get into the MA and one AI already knows it. Hopefully soon they sell it meaning we get it for free via the GL. Plus with the extra gold I was able to rush a library, coliseum, and hopefully have enough built up to rush the cathedral.

Once we hit the MA I suggest full out research on the upper branch. We want to get as many wonders and cultural improvements as early as possible in Alexandria. When it comes to 20k IMO every turn matters. As soon as the GLH was finished I rushed the library on that turn. We didn't have the money to rush a coliseum on it's first turn so I rushed it on the second instead. IMO, every turn matters when going for a 20k victory.

The obvious best MA wonder is Shakes. Not only does it have a high cpt but it allows Alexandria to grow above size 12. Off hand I can't remember the other high culture produces, as I rarely build wonders. If I do I go for the science output wonders (Cop's and Newton's).

 

[Methos]

I thought about turning it into a worker factory but ended up just letting it kill itself off. If possible I'll see if I can get another city set up as a worker factory.

I'll finish my turnset this afternoon/tonight. Sorry for taking so long.